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Old 3rd August 2015, 15:53   #4696
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

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Originally Posted by adrian View Post
Doc, if it is a case of coolant mixing with oil, then it is caused by a bad head gasket. You will have to replace the head gasket to get out of the problem.
regards adrian
Read of cases on the other forum of some bikes having valve stem/seal issues?
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Old 3rd August 2015, 16:07   #4697
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

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Read of cases on the other forum of some bikes having valve stem/seal issues?
Doc, If it was oil (valve stem/seal/piston ring issues), you would have got bluish black smoke instead of white. But then, I also don't know how a coolant seepage would indicate only during the first two minutes of the start up.
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Old 3rd August 2015, 16:13   #4698
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

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Doc, If it was oil (valve stem/seal/piston ring issues), you would have got bluish black smoke instead of white. But then, I also don't know how a coolant seepage would indicate only during the first two minutes of the start up.
regards adrian
You are right. I know what ring smoke looks like from my Bullets.

This was wispy pure white. Really white.
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Old 3rd August 2015, 16:43   #4699
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
How/from where does the coolant get into the oil? What is the remedy?
Head Gasket is one, as Adrian says. The other possible cause could be from a failed impeller shaft seal located on the water pump.
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Old 3rd August 2015, 20:36   #4700
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

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Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
The other possible cause could be from a failed impeller shaft seal located on the water pump.
Just to know about it : What drives the water pump in a KTM ? - Internal gear mechanism or belt driven ?
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Old 3rd August 2015, 21:18   #4701
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

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Just to know about it : What drives the water pump in a KTM ? - Internal gear mechanism or belt driven ?
Its gear mechanism and not belt driven.
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Old 3rd August 2015, 22:40   #4702
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

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Do the Dukes also wet sump if left standing for a period of time?

I can't see any other reason for the white smoke from the exhaust. Cause if it was an issue with the rings, the smoke would not stop.

Could it also be an issue of sticky rings, cause of the long period of inactivity?
@Dr

Unless the issue is happening even while riding, i wouldnt be worried. My New 390 had this symptom every morning i start. I usually let it run for five minutes which also helps with heating up the engine and oil flow.

Then it stops. It happened only after over night parking and lower temp in the morning.

I found it to be probably water vapor built up during this time of temperature change.

A simple explanation is convection. If there is any sort of oil leak, i am sure the oil also drips if the bike is stationary for long time. The valve seating oil leak will not be white but slightly bluish and the soot is definitely not dry.
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Old 4th August 2015, 00:44   #4703
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Post Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
You are right. I know what ring smoke looks like from my Bullets.

This was wispy pure white. Really white.
Doc, actually coolant mixing with oil can be found with, one if the oil in the sight window is white foamy (chocolate brown), white milky or frothy then you can clearly know that's water contamination right there that's one, the other one being we're looking at a possible head gasket failure. Did you check your coolant level? Have they dropped? Overseeing of low coolant too can lead to gasket failures due to the heat.

Secondly, if you examine the exhaust tip, and dab your finger inside, you must see black or black powdery soot as with all four jokes, you know it (carbon) not oily sludge, something like two strokes exhaust, if you even get a faint hint of oily sludge. Hallelujah! We're done!

Doc I'd suggest you get it checked it your nearest SVC.

Cheers!
V

Last edited by VijayAnand1 : 4th August 2015 at 00:46.
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Old 4th August 2015, 02:25   #4704
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

As was said, a leak in the cooling system that allows some coolant to find its way into the combustion chamber will cause a white cloud to be emitted from the exhaust on startup.

If the leak is small, this will only be noted after the engine has been at rest for long periods of time.

The cloud of smoke is caused by the anti-freeze in the coolant.
Anti-freeze should always be present in a modern water cooled engine where it's primary function is to protect the aluminum in the water jacket from corrosion.

If the level of the coolant in the radiator overflow tank drops, it is a sign that a leak exists somewhere.
Another thing to look at if a coolant leak is suspected is the spark plug tip.
If it shows a sign of rusting, a coolant leak is undoubtedly the reason.

Another cause of smoke after the engine is started after being left for a long time without running is an oil leak past the valve stem(s).
Usually, a worn valve stem seal is the culprit.
If it is worn a very small amount of oil will leak past the valve stem into the inlet or the exhaust port.

If the leak is on the inlet valve stem, smoke will be seen almost immediately after the engine has started.
If the leak is on the exhaust valve stem, smoke will begin to be noticed within 10-15 seconds after the engine has started.

In either case, the oily smoke will diminish within a minute or two and will not be seen until the engine has been shut off for hours.

Oil smoke caused by damaged/worn piston rings may become less while the engine is running but it does not go away.
Fresh oil will continue to leak past the rings resulting in a blue, hazy exhaust.
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Old 4th August 2015, 05:34   #4705
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Well, started her up, cranked on the first try. But then I notice white smoke from the exhaust, and when I gave her some throttle to burn off any excess oil, even larger plume of white smoke.

This went on for maybe a minute or two and then cleared. I've not been able to see any white smoke from the exhaust after that.
If you see oil smoke only during the start of the bike, probably the Valve Stem Oil Seals are on their way out.
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Old 4th August 2015, 10:29   #4706
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

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Originally Posted by man_of_steel View Post
Its gear mechanism and not belt driven.
Thanks man_of_steel.
I have read somewhere that the KTMs are equipped with a weep hole between the oil and coolant channels in the head which prevents the oil and coolant from mixing up in the event of the gasket getting bad. If the so called weep hole is there in the KTM models available in India and unless you get oil/coolant through the weep hole, the first place to look for a coolant leak would be the water pump impeller shaft oil seal.


OT : We have a rotary diesel pump in our old Ambassador which runs by internal gear mechanism and if the shaft seal gets busted, we get diesel in the engine oil, which is not at all good. But in the Ambassador, the pump starts howling which gives the indication that something is bad.

Last edited by adrian : 4th August 2015 at 10:31.
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Old 4th August 2015, 12:59   #4707
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

Update:

The bike was ridden last Sunday night before being washed and put back under the covers.

Took the cover off today morning and checked the coolant level. Looked a cm or two lower than what I remember it to be always.

Started the bike and waited. After a few seconds puffs of white seen from the exhaust. Nowhere as thick as Sunday though.

Gave it throttle. White smoke increased, could be seen, again nowhere as thick as Sunday.

Went away after some time. The smoke definitely smells of burnt oil.

The exhaust is bone dry and clean. Brownish base metal. Not even black. Finger inside shows just light traces of dry black soot. Traces as in not thick/dark at all. Not wet definitely.
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Old 4th August 2015, 13:12   #4708
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
[u]

The smoke definitely smells of burnt oil.
Doc, was it a sweet smell ? More info on the following link :

http://www.autobytel.com/car-ownersh...xhaust-104055/

regards adrian
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Old 4th August 2015, 14:30   #4709
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

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Doc, was it a sweet smell ? More info on the following link :

http://www.autobytel.com/car-ownersh...xhaust-104055/

regards adrian
No idea of the scent bro.

Cinnamon, nutmeg, cardamom, maple .... wow!
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Old 4th August 2015, 14:42   #4710
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

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No idea of the scent bro.

Cinnamon, nutmeg, cardamom, maple .... wow!
The cinnamon/nutmeg thing was some sort of exaggeration from the part of the author. But the point is whether the exhaust has the sweet smell of ethylene glycol ?
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