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Old 26th June 2013, 21:14   #16
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Default Re: Pulsar 220: FI to Carb conversion?

What would go wrong in a FI system in case it is left idle? I would rather feel that the same thing would happen in a carburettor than a FI system. When I had let my scoot idle for two weeks, it failed to idle. This was caused due to some clogging in the carb. Even I would not like to go the reverse way back to a carb setup. Of course mechanics are used to the old aged carb system and all of them aren't competent to touch such a thing. Try out a different mechanic at least.
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Old 26th June 2013, 22:07   #17
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I hope Bajaj has not goofed up somewhere with their FI systems, hence to save face they are recommending to changing back to carbs rather than repairing the injection system. That is strange and I really could not believe that auth. service centers can recommend this!



Design flaw (my understanding)-open loop fi system in a country like india. I imagined how this stuff works and how it can break after reading about it somewhere -humidity during rains /dust was what I thought. I am not an mech engineer so I could only use "black box" way of understanding the system that many of us are used to.

Proper fi bikes like ninja use a closed loop fi system

Experts please comment and share your insights

Engine diag/tuning tool: The service center needs to invest in this tool to tune engine parameters. They might not find it attractive to invest in this for an end of life model and hence recommend customers to change to carb

General attitude of mechanics about fi- unlike mpfi cars I cannot get it repaired in most places even BASS.They just dont want to touch it.
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Old 26th June 2013, 22:51   #18
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Default Re: Pulsar 220: FI to Carb conversion?

The fact that the service centre itself suggesting it to go back ages instead of diagnose the real issue says a lot about the Service centre. Period!!

Bro! for a enthusiast its a great job to convert to carb, you will have better control over the power in tuning the bike. Considering the fact that Indian bike hardly have the ECU tuning data or equipment.

For a commuter, its definitely a no go. Please complain to Bajjaj at-least once and you will have a correct answer.
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Old 26th June 2013, 22:52   #19
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Default Re: Pulsar 220: FI to Carb conversion?

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Originally Posted by sathish81 View Post
Design flaw (my understanding)-open loop fi system in a country like india.
General attitude of mechanics about fi- unlike mpfi cars I cannot get it repaired in most places even BASS.They just dont want to touch it.
I have a 2007 220 FI which still runs great, and also have custody of another 220 FI which also runs just fine, both are under 30000km but regularly used although not as run as much total distance.

The problem is likely due to clogging of the injector, I suggest you take the bike to another garage for injector cleaning. There are several sensors as well, which in case of frayed/snapped wires, could cause the ECU to behave erratically.

If you have the time and inclination, haul the bike to Bangalore and let Auto Service (a Bajaj authorized service center ) have a go at fixing the FI's problems.

Going back to carbs may work, but remember - once those grease monkeys open a carb, they may fail to put it back right, CV carbs are usually not recommended to be opened/serviced, once set at the factory, they are difficult to tune properly. So you could end up having the same woes of poor running bike with the carb.
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Old 27th June 2013, 00:42   #20
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Default Re: Pulsar 220: FI to Carb conversion?

True, it is open loop. However, the ability to monitor throttle position and meter the fuel more precisely, keeping RPM in mind... maps, in short, means that with the right tuning, it will still have lower emissions than a carburetted bike. However, that is an unnecessary digression.

You could consider another option to keep it injected. I think the system is called megasquirt- it is (if I remember correctly) an open source ECU for fuel injected vehicles. I think they have a smaller version for single cylinder as well. You could reuse the sensors you have, even add a lambda sensor (O2 sensor) and go for closed loop control, thus giving you even better performance.
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Old 27th June 2013, 11:11   #21
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Default Re: Pulsar 220: FI to Carb conversion?

Update

bajaj probiking seems to recommend the avenger 220 carb as replacement for FI. The local mechanic says there is a specific kit from bajaj which is meant for converting FI to carb. The avenger carb on pulsar 220 is known to cause misfires according to him. I am trusting the mechanic as I have seen him doing some complex jobs (its a small shop and we can view him working)

The carb conversion kit will be available only by saturday- keeping my fingers crossed.

Request again- If someone has been through this already, please update this thread.
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Old 28th June 2013, 19:54   #22
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Default Re: Pulsar 220: FI to Carb conversion?

Hi,
If you were satisfied with the FI setup initially, then suggest you be a bit more proactive (read pushy) with Bajaj for maintenance support.

On the other hand, I see nothing wrong in reverting back to carb, esp. keeping in mind that the Indian companies FI implementation left something to be desired.

Things to be aware of:- I hope the kit comes properly setup. Proper setup requires time, knowledge, and access to some specialised equipment. Even then, Its unlikely to be emmisions legal.

Regards
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Old 28th June 2013, 21:54   #23
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Default Re: Pulsar 220: FI to Carb conversion?

If you are moving ahead with the conversion, what do you plan to do with the current components? Are you going to sell them or the mechanic will keep them?
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Old 29th June 2013, 07:48   #24
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Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
If you are moving ahead with the conversion, what do you plan to do with the current components? Are you going to sell them or the mechanic will keep them?
I believe he will be removing the injector nozzle and throttle body.i can give them away to tbhpians if someone is interested and can pick up.today evening I will know for sure what he has removed
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Old 29th June 2013, 21:01   #25
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Default Re: Pulsar 220: FI to Carb conversion?

Got the bike back today and felt that a part of me is back

What was taken out:

Throttle body and injector
Pulsar 220: FI to Carb conversion?-20130629_201109.jpg
Pulsar 220: FI to Carb conversion?-20130629_201116.jpg

See the really bad condition of injector. The bike can given to service just 2 weeks back in BASS with the complaint that sometimes it does not rev beyond 4k RPM- somehow I am not surprised that they dint even bother cleaning the injector.


They were replaced with

1. Carb (Avenger 220's carb)
2. Intake manifold
3. Carb hose

Pulsar 220: FI to Carb conversion?-20130629_155943.jpg
Pulsar 220: FI to Carb conversion?-20130629_160014.jpg
Pulsar 220: FI to Carb conversion?-20130629_160159.jpg

Total cost of spares 2556
Total cost of labor- including fitting petrol tap in petrol tank/welding+new air filter- Rs1000

How does the bike feel-

Hate to say this, but it feels better than when FI was present.

On a related note, the engine malfunction indicator on speedo console is always on. I presume that it is because the FI and throttle body are taken out- If someone thinks this is not the case, please let me know- I will get it checked.
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Old 30th June 2013, 07:33   #26
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Default Re: Pulsar 220: FI to Carb conversion?

I don't know why everyone is making such a hue and cry regarding shifting from FI to Carb. Frankly speaking, a sizable number of people holding on to their 220FI have converted to carb setup, largely because of lack of service support. Instead of screwing up the bike further, it is better to convert it to carb and enjoy for a couple of years more! Majority of the Probiking SVCs were incompetent in servicing the FIs anyway.

PS :- What do we have to say regarding those converting their RE Classics from FI to Carbs?

BTW, any particular reason you did not opt for the current P220's carb? I believe it is in a different state of tune.
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Old 30th June 2013, 13:44   #27
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Originally Posted by Motormania View Post
BTW, any particular reason you did not opt for the current P220's carb? I believe it is in a different state of tune.
I think the engine head needs to be changed for that as the intake size is different

I am totally happy with the rev happy nature of bike now with the current carb and feel it is quicker to 3 digits(I did a hard rev run today early morning in highway).
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Old 1st August 2013, 11:36   #28
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Default Re: Pulsar 220: FI to Carb conversion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sathish81 View Post
On a related note, the engine malfunction indicator on speedo console is always on. I presume that it is because the FI and throttle body are taken out- If someone thinks this is not the case, please let me know- I will get it checked.
Hi Sathish,
No wonder the engine MIL is on, because the ignition is still controlled by the engine ECU. The throttle position sensor is not sending any signal coz the connector is disconnected. Which means that the ECU thinks either the throttle is wide open or completely closed. The engine revs are irrelevant to the throttle position. Ask your mechanic for what he did with the manifold pressure sensor (not sure if your pulsar had one), if it had one then you will have to use it again because the ignition advance and retard will be controlled by engine rpm and manifold pressure. So the MIL can glow for want of pressure signal or the throttle position signal. If your are happy with the performance and fuel economy simply ignore the MIL, or cover it with a black sticker so that your eyes are not distracted.
Still please have a word with the mechanic about the manifold pressure sensor.
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Old 7th August 2013, 07:00   #29
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Hi Sathish,
No wonder the engine MIL is on, because the ignition is still controlled by the engine ECU. The throttle position sensor is not sending any signal coz the connector is disconnected. Which means that the ECU thinks either the throttle is wide open or completely closed. The engine revs are irrelevant to the throttle position. Ask your mechanic for what he did with the manifold pressure sensor (not sure if your pulsar had one), if it had one then you will have to use it again because the ignition advance and retard will be controlled by engine rpm and manifold pressure. So the MIL can glow for want of pressure signal or the throttle position signal. If your are happy with the performance and fuel economy simply ignore the MIL, or cover it with a black sticker so that your eyes are not distracted.
Still please have a word with the mechanic about the manifold pressure sensor.
Thanks ilango.i will check that out. The black sticker fix is what I am doing now. Btw I do not have any problem with the bike at all so not much worried about MIL. My professional experience has taught me an very imp lesson like many others "if it aint broke dont fix it "
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Old 29th January 2014, 18:20   #30
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Default Re: Pulsar 220: FI to Carb conversion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sathish81 View Post
Got the bike back today and felt that a part of me is back

1. Carb (Avenger 220's carb)
2. Intake manifold
3. Carb hose

Total cost of spares 2556
Total cost of labor- including fitting petrol tap in petrol tank/welding+new air filter- Rs1000



Hate to say this, but it feels better than when FI was present.
Sathish, your posts have been really helpful! Thanks a ton. I've been having months old conflict in my mind of whether to continue with the fuel pump or to convert to carb.

I do have a couple of queries though.

Is the cost of said Avenger carb much less than that of the 220s? Weren't you given an estimate close to 7k by other mechanics?

Any idea if they had to mess with the wiring to make the conversion work? I'm assuming no, since they malfunction light is still on.

Lastly, what of the gaping hole on the underside of the tank now that there's no fuel pump there?

It's been a couple of months since you've made the conversion, do you still think the conversion was the right decision?
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