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Old 26th June 2013, 10:36   #1
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Default Pulsar 220: FI to Carb conversion?

I own a 2008 model pulsar 220 FI variant. Over the last couple of weeks it has developed a strange problem- it will not rev beyond 3-4K RPM. Bajaj probiking advised me to get the bike converted to carb and quoted approx 9.5K for that (they had already serviced the bike and set the CO levels), I did not do the conversion at that time as I wanted to have the FI if possible. Yesterday the bike stopped suddenly and again will not rev beyond 2K RPM. I had to take it to a local mechanic who again advised me to get the bike converted to carb. I left the bike with him asking to proceed with work. He said that following items need to be changed

1. Engine head (not sure why)
2. Carb
3. Fuel tap can be welded on to petrol tank (the FI tank uses a pump and does not have fuel tap)

Total Cost approx 7.5K

Has anyone done similar job and if so do you know why engine head needs to be changed ? The probike centre recommended to change the tank, carb and they did not mention engine head

I do not use the bike on a regular basis as I drive to work, but still this bike is of sentimental value to me and I do enjoy riding it - so I do not want to sell at this point.

Your thoughts/comments are appreciated
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Old 26th June 2013, 10:59   #2
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Default re: Pulsar 220: FI to Carb conversion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sathish81 View Post
I own a 2008 model pulsar 220 FI variant. Over the last couple of weeks it has developed a strange problem- it will not rev beyond 3-4K RPM. Bajaj probiking advised me to get the bike converted to carb and quoted approx 9.5K for that (they had already serviced the bike and set the CO levels), I did not do the conversion at that time as I wanted to have the FI if possible. Yesterday the bike stopped suddenly and again will not rev beyond 2K RPM. I had to take it to a local mechanic who again advised me to get the bike converted to carb. I left the bike with him asking to proceed with work. He said that following items need to be changed

1. Engine head (not sure why)
2. Carb
3. Fuel tap can be welded on to petrol tank (the FI tank uses a pump and does not have fuel tap)

Total Cost approx 7.5K

Has anyone done similar job and if so do you know why engine head needs to be changed ? The probike centre recommended to change the tank, carb and they did not mention engine head

I do not use the bike on a regular basis as I drive to work, but still this bike is of sentimental value to me and I do enjoy riding it - so I do not want to sell at this point.

Your thoughts/comments are appreciated

The mechanic and the BASS are incompetent . Just because they are not able to diagonise the root cause of the problem, they are asking you to change to carb!

Engine head needs to be changed/lathed only if you are losing engine oil rapidly. Junk those mechanics and go to a competent bajaj service center and get it diagonised properly!

Don't convert the bike to Carb. It can open a can of worms! 220 Fi has one of the best and crisp throttle response! Keep the Fi ! Junk the mechs

Last edited by sagarpadaki : 26th June 2013 at 11:01.
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Old 26th June 2013, 11:05   #3
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Default re: Pulsar 220: FI to Carb conversion?

You're the first I've heard going back to carb from FI. Why settle for less power, mileage and more emissions? I second sagarpadaki, get it fixed at a proper place.

I assume the head has a different intake for FI vs carb, which is why the mech is asking you to change it.
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Old 26th June 2013, 11:26   #4
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Default re: Pulsar 220: FI to Carb conversion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sagarpadaki View Post
The mechanic and the BASS are incompetent . Just because they are not able to diagonise the root cause of the problem, they are asking you to change to carb!

Engine head needs to be changed/lathed only if you are losing engine oil rapidly. Junk those mechanics and go to a competent bajaj service center and get it diagonised properly!

Don't convert the bike to Carb. It can open a can of worms! 220 Fi has one of the best and crisp throttle response! Keep the Fi ! Junk the mechs
Quote:
Originally Posted by RM2488 View Post
You're the first I've heard going back to carb from FI. Why settle for less power, mileage and more emissions? I second sagarpadaki, get it fixed at a proper place.

I assume the head has a different intake for FI vs carb, which is why the mech is asking you to change it.
Thanks for your replies.

The P220 FI seem to use open-loop FI system and does not have sensor to take feedback from exhaust because of this it needs to be tuned with a diag/engine tuning tool (i read this somewhere)

Adayar is the only probiking centre we have in chennai and they were the one who recommended the conversion. No other centre has the diag tool to set the engine. Moreoever, FI system sensors and components are costly to replace

I wouldnt go for the conversion if I really had any option. So engine head replacement is really not needed- I will keep this in mind
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Old 26th June 2013, 11:35   #5
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Default re: Pulsar 220: FI to Carb conversion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RM2488 View Post
I assume the head has a different intake for FI vs carb, which is why the mech is asking you to change it.
Sorry for back to back posts- I guess multiprocessing between debugging and browsing team-bhp doesn't work very well (for me atleast). I missed your point about different intake sizes for FI vs carb. So engine head change is valid I guess.

Has anyone done such a conversion already
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Old 26th June 2013, 11:48   #6
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Default re: Pulsar 220: FI to Carb conversion?

The market is moving towards FI systems and you already have it and now you want to do a retro?? Like other members advised, find a better service center and diagnose the actually underlying problem rather than going for a carb. I am sure that whatever the root problem is, the repair is likely to cost less than this useless retrograding conversion to carb.
Not sure about bikes, but a car's ecu can be reset by disconnecting battery terminals for a while. Try doing it and you might get lucky.

Regards,
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Old 26th June 2013, 12:27   #7
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Default re: Pulsar 220: FI to Carb conversion?

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Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
The market is moving towards FI systems and you already have it and now you want to do a retro?? Like other members advised, find a better service center and diagnose the actually underlying problem rather than going for a carb. I am sure that whatever the root problem is, the repair is likely to cost less than this useless retrograding conversion to carb.
Not sure about bikes, but a car's ecu can be reset by disconnecting battery terminals for a while. Try doing it and you might get lucky.

Regards,
Saket
Saket I agree with you and others about keeping the FI if I had a choice. However, I use my bike occasionally (usually when I want to relax due to personal,work pressures etc), Probiking keeps insisting this occasional use can cause problem with FI system and the petrol in injector/tank might go bad causing clogged injectors (???)

The problem I mentioned in my post occured multiple times over the last couple of weeks and sometimes I found it really hard to ride the bike to service center which is 20KM away from my house (it wouldnt cross 25Kph)- Hence I took the decision to change it to carb for good. I have tried the battery discon/recon trick many times but that does not seem to rectify the issue- so I thought that the problem is not with ECU at all but with the FI system/throttle body-hence the desicion to go retro.
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Old 26th June 2013, 13:15   #8
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Default re: Pulsar 220: FI to Carb conversion?

Sathish, I see you are from Chennai, hence a big city. There should be no dearth of good Bajaj ASC, hence dump your current BASS, and visit another reputed service station. We have a lot of Chennai members on the forum who can help you direct to a good BASS.
Don't rush into that conversion. I am sure that its some electrical problem or bad / adultered fuel problem. A good job should do the trick.

Regards,
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Old 26th June 2013, 13:39   #9
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Default re: Pulsar 220: FI to Carb conversion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
Sathish, I see you are from Chennai, hence a big city. There should be no dearth of good Bajaj ASC, hence dump your current BASS, and visit another reputed service station. We have a lot of Chennai members on the forum who can help you direct to a good BASS.
Don't rush into that conversion. I am sure that its some electrical problem or bad / adultered fuel problem. A good job should do the trick.

Regards,
Saket
Thanks Saket, but I think Jai bajaj Adayar is the only service center (bajaj calls them probiking centres) that can service P220 FI. I will wait for other's comments.

In the meantime the local mechanic called and updated me that the FI to carb conversion can be done without changing engine head. I have asked him to put the work on hold.
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Old 26th June 2013, 17:08   #10
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Default Re: Pulsar 220: FI to Carb conversion?

Do not change from FI to Carb. Insist with Bajaj - contact their central customer care / PR and get it working in OEM setup without modifications - that too out of your pocket. What a joke really. I hope tomorrow some car maker won't suggest to revert to a steam engine if an MPFI stalls. If Bajaj cannot resolve the problem, the last measure would be to go to consumer court. But at any cost, do NOT change to carb.
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Old 26th June 2013, 19:18   #11
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Default Re: Pulsar 220: FI to Carb conversion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sathish81 View Post
Snip..

1. Engine head (not sure why)
2. Carb
3. Fuel tap can be welded on to petrol tank (the FI tank uses a pump and does not have fuel tap)

Total Cost approx 7.5K

Has anyone done similar job and if so do you know why engine head needs to be changed ? The probike centre recommended to change the tank, carb and they did not mention engine head


Your thoughts/comments are appreciated
Do not convert, there will be whole lot of things that may also be needed be changed to get the bike working proper like the ignition maps and throttle position sensors.

Try writing to Bajaj or contact their regional service manager who can help you get it addressed and besides there are plenty of good tuners in Chennai who deal with super bikes who can help you diagnose the issue.
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Old 26th June 2013, 19:53   #12
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Default Re: Pulsar 220: FI to Carb conversion?

My friend's bro in law has a similar problem - he has a 220 that has been used sparingly for the last two years.

Don't really know if its not starting at all, or not revving beyond a limit or something, but anyway, the Bajaj guys are recommending a change to carbs from FI - same situation as you are in. The bike has been lying at BASS for the last 2 weeks, due to some parts having not arrived. No idea about the estimate et al. Din't enquire in detail, as this thing came up during a casual conversation. This is in Baroda, Guj. I will let you know how this story shaped up.
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Old 26th June 2013, 20:01   #13
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Originally Posted by Reinhard View Post
Do not change from FI to Carb. Insist with Bajaj - contact their central customer care / PR and get it working in OEM setup without modifications - that too out of your pocket. What a joke really. I hope tomorrow some car maker won't suggest to revert to a steam engine if an MPFI stalls. If Bajaj cannot resolve the problem, the last measure would be to go to consumer court. But at any cost, do NOT change to carb.
I would have fought with them if only it had happened few months earlier.whatever little time I have between sharing the resp of taking care of my 2 month old daughter and doing something at work which feels like sitting inside a pressure cooker with clock ticking all the time-i want to catch few winks and not fight with some random cust care folks

Againt my wish and everyone advice I have decided to go ahead with conversion. I dont know if I should find it comforting that bajaj has a custom carb with valid part no. for this purpose (info by local mechanic)

Once again thanks everyone. I will let you folks know how it went and post pics of conversion job
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Old 26th June 2013, 20:11   #14
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Default Re: Pulsar 220: FI to Carb conversion?

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Originally Posted by wantarangerover View Post
My friend's bro in law has a similar problem - he has a 220 that has been used sparingly for the last two years.

anyway, the Bajaj guys are recommending a change to carbs from FI - same situation as you are in.
I hope Bajaj has not goofed up somewhere with their FI systems, hence to save face they are recommending to changing back to carbs rather than repairing the injection system. That is strange and I really could not believe that auth. service centers can recommend this!
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Old 26th June 2013, 20:16   #15
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Originally Posted by sathish81 View Post

Thanks Saket, but I think Jai bajaj Adayar is the only service center (bajaj calls them probiking centres) that can service P220 FI. I will wait for other's comments.

In the meantime the local mechanic called and updated me that the FI to carb conversion can be done without changing engine head. I have asked him to put the work on hold.
Drop a e mail to bajaj auto customer service describing the problem in detail along with the service center and their inability to solve the issue. Also mention that conversion to carb that they are insisting. Bajaj auto is very reactive to the customer compliant and they Will ensure that its solved. Personal experience.
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