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Old 29th July 2013, 15:09   #1
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Red face No Kick-Start without battery?

Hi All,

My Hero Honda Glamor (125 CC) refused to start in the morning. I took it to the Service Center. The manager over there told me that its not starting because the battery if dead (no current at all). I was under impression that even without the battery the bike should start using the kick. But he says this one does not. He tried it using other battery and it starts without any issue.

I am really confused -
1. Isn't it right that bike should kick-start w/o the battery?
2. Can battery go dead like that, I was using it till morning and had no issues?

Please help.
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Old 29th July 2013, 15:12   #2
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Default re: No Kick-Start without battery?

I have been running my CBZ on a dead battery for last 2 years and have never faced any starting issues. Glamour came with a FI system some years back I think. Is your bike that model?
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Old 29th July 2013, 15:25   #3
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Default re: No Kick-Start without battery?

Thanks! My bike is almost 8 years old, it is pre-FI model I guess. Does it mean it needs battery to start?
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Old 29th July 2013, 16:23   #4
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Default re: No Kick-Start without battery?

Yes, the battery will die on you just like that. When corrosion on the plates gets to a certain tipping point it will short the terminals and render your battery useless. How old is the battery / How often do you take your bike out?

I'm not sure about the technicals behind this, but it's got something to do with how the electric system on the bike is built - magneto / alternator (I'm not 100%sure). Our TVS Scooty starts faster with a new battery but took a long time to start when the battery was dead. Someone with more knowledge might be able to expand on this.
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Old 29th July 2013, 16:39   #5
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Default re: No Kick-Start without battery?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ulhas.ahirrao View Post
1. Isn't it right that bike should kick-start w/o the battery?
There is a chance that for spark to happen (IDI unit ?) in this model, you need some charge in the battery.
Quote:
2. Can battery go dead like that, I was using it till morning and had no issues?
Yes Sir, it can.
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Old 29th July 2013, 17:56   #6
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Default re: No Kick-Start without battery?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
There is a chance that for spark to happen (IDI unit ?) in this model, you need some charge in the battery.
Yes Sir, it can.
Thanks! It means the service centre is not taking me for a ride
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Old 29th July 2013, 18:44   #7
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Default re: No Kick-Start without battery?

Hero Glamor can run with a dead battery as far as my knowledge goes.
Even FI can run with a dead battery in emergency as it can take power from the charging coil/alternator but through a rectifier/regulator.

Glamor/CBZ/Hunk/Splenor Pro/Passion pro/Karizma etc.. are all equipped with DC CDI.(Except Splendor plus which still runs on AC CDI and can run even without battery as its source is AC current directly from alternator )

Bikes equipped with DC CDI have a regulator/rectifier with a in-built capacitor which helps in maintaining a consistent voltage supply to the CDI even at cranking speed so you need to kick-start it with full force for at-least 3 times continuously for the capacitor to get charged up and the bike to fire.

TIP-Whenever the bike does not fire, start with the basics first.
1. Whether there is sufficient petrol or not.
2.Whether the spark plug is getting current or not.(Can be checked easily by removing the spark plug cap and keeping the end of the wire 1 cm away from plug terminal stud. It should spark )

After changing the battery make sure it is getting charged sufficiently and the voltage is ~14v when 1/4 of the throttle is opened.
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Old 29th July 2013, 22:52   #8
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Default re: No Kick-Start without battery?

Quote:
Originally Posted by interc00led View Post
After changing the battery make sure it is getting charged sufficiently and the voltage is ~14v when 1/4 of the throttle is opened.
Would be a good idea to check if charging system is in working order before plonking money on a new battery. I once had this experience when an independent battery guy "checked" my perfectly OK battery and replaced it because he said it was bad. Only later did I realize that the regulator had gone kaput, not the battery. Talk of throwing good money away.
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Old 30th July 2013, 00:18   #9
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Default re: No Kick-Start without battery?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellmet View Post
Would be a good idea to check if charging system is in working order before plonking money on a new battery. I once had this experience when an independent battery guy "checked" my perfectly OK battery and replaced it because he said it was bad. Only later did I realize that the regulator had gone kaput, not the battery. Talk of throwing good money away.
Thanks for the heads up, I should have been more clear.

In order to be able to check the charging system there must be a battery which has at-least an open circuit voltage of ~9V for the regulator/rectifier to be able to charge the battery. Suppose a deeply discharged battery is used with less than 9V then the RR might not even charge the battery at all.
I know it is a weird thing/logic but this is the way these RRs work.

So get a loaner battery, check the voltage , if charging system is working correctly then replace the old battery with a new one. If charging system is faulty then repair it, top-up the electrolyte by adding distilled water if required, re-charge the battery using a battery bench charger on 0.25~0.5A.

9/10 times faulty battery is the culprit. As the OP has mentioned that his bike did not start even after kick-starting, I am also suspecting a faulty charging system.
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