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Old 17th January 2014, 12:20   #16
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Default re: Tork India's FZ16 Electric motorcycle w/ 40 bhp - Will it change the way we commute?

Electric bikes are a great concept to save the environment as well as reduce fossil fuel dependency. If our government was not corrupt and fully sold to the oil producing countries, we would have a national electric policy in place and given tax breaks to electric vehicle makers and tax rebates to people buying electric vehicles.
Even if 70% of our electricity comes from coal, at least we produce the coal we consume, we are not at the mercy of the gulf countries or Iran for imported oil!!

Most of the environmental agencies who deride electric vehicles and coal driven power plants, if investigated will be observed as funded by UAE or USA.

Imagine this: we have not managed to electrify all our tracks, there is a go slow policy on electrification, in fact the highly corrupt Lalu Yadav insisted on running diesel trains on electric routes to fulfill his twisted agenda.

Even now, not all is lost, we must encourage electric vehicles, vehicles running on bio fuel and CNG. We must give tax breaks to such vehicles to ensure our fuel bills reduce.
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Old 17th January 2014, 14:38   #17
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So let me summarize.
We want subsidy on electricity.
We want subsidy on fuel.
We want low taxes on cars.
We will break down toll booths.
We don't want income tax.
We should not import oil from Middle Eastern counties.
Those corrupt politicians!!
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Old 17th January 2014, 16:05   #18
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Default re: Tork India's FZ16 Electric motorcycle w/ 40 bhp - Will it change the way we commute?

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Originally Posted by Ayson View Post
Now, before jumping on the environment wagon, let us remember that this needs charging, and 66% of India's electricity is generated from fossil fuels. This bike and a 1kVA solar charger would be the environmental answer.
Agreed about energy being generated from fossil fuels. Even so this would be cheaper simply because the cost of transmitting electricity from the power plant to end user is minimal when compared to transporting fossil fuel. That alone makes up for using fossil fuels to generate electricity. I'm not sure of the numbers but this is certainly more efficient. I am also reasonably sure electric vehicles give you more miles per buck (you'll just have to stop more often ) than oil burners. While this isn't perfect, it's a good start!

Eventually we should get more efficient - energy source to consumption.

Also IMHO the FZ is one of the better looking affordable bikes out there. So that helps too
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Old 17th January 2014, 16:48   #19
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Default re: Tork India's FZ16 Electric motorcycle w/ 40 bhp - Will it change the way we commute?

Forgot windmill and hydro electric power that are also major contributors for power source in our country?

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Originally Posted by Roomy View Post
+1 to that Ayson.

I have seen that people forget to think about whre the electricity is generated from. A major chunk of electricity is either from Diesel/Coal burning power stations which is just as polluting as our fossil fuel burning automobiles.

A solar powered charger is the answer if you want to be truly environment friendly in terms of electricity production.
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Old 17th January 2014, 17:09   #20
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Default re: Tork India's FZ16 Electric motorcycle w/ 40 bhp - Will it change the way we commute?

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Originally Posted by gsurya View Post
So let me summarize.
We want subsidy on electricity.
We want subsidy on fuel.
We want low taxes on cars.
We will break down toll booths.
We don't want income tax.
We should not import oil from Middle Eastern counties.
Those corrupt politicians!!
You know why? Because the stupid govt of India is in the habit of putting in opaque taxes, taxes on taxes, cess, duties, etc in the most obtuse way bringing in higher prices for all the above. Do you know with every 1 rupee increase in petrol, the oil companies and govt of India is making at least 40 paise extra in the taxes you give? Which other country in the world does the tax constitute 40% of the car's value when it hits the road?

Not counting the road tax, environmental tax, parking tax and oh yeah.. the famous toll booth, one fine day you may pay toll for moving from your bedroom to the hall or toilet if you don't do anything.
Any surprise people are burning toll booths now? I am not, I am anticipating a day, not far when people will start burning govt officials too
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Old 17th January 2014, 21:46   #21
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Default Re: Tork India's FZ16 Electric motorcycle w/ 40 bhp - Will it change the way we commu

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Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
Any surprise people are burning toll booths now? I am not, I am anticipating a day, not far when people will start burning govt officials too
Please relax buddy. Poor Govt officials are just workers executing policy. If ur really upset about, say, Octroi & road conditions in Mumbai you need to burn a few politicians who are in charge of BMC in Mumbai... oops.. the same goon guys who beat up poor tollbooth agents elsewhere..
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Old 17th January 2014, 21:53   #22
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Default Re: Tork India's FZ16 Electric motorcycle w/ 40 bhp - Will it change the way we commu

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsurya View Post
Please relax buddy. Poor Govt officials are just workers executing policy. If ur really upset about, say, Octroi & road conditions in Mumbai you need to burn a few politicians who are in charge of BMC in Mumbai... oops.. the same goon guys who beat up poor tollbooth agents elsewhere..
I am merely stating the facts, in fact people who are closing their eyes and relaxing now, will have a bitter surprise sooner than later. People's anger is boiling over, and of course the front end gys will be targeted, if their 'innocent' government officials or toll booth operators.
the anger is against the unjustified wholesale looting in almost all spheres of public life.
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Old 17th January 2014, 23:26   #23
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Default Re: Tork India's FZ16 Electric motorcycle w/ 40 bhp - Will it change the way we commu

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Originally Posted by adityasiera View Post
Hello bhpians,
I stumbled upon this amazing build by, TORK.
Gee, this looks very promising. If this can be registered, I'd definitely buy it.

Looks like Powerdrift got their hands on this electric cracker! Here's a nice little teaser they released:

Last edited by Turbojc : 17th January 2014 at 23:36.
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Old 19th January 2014, 10:18   #24
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Default Re: Tork India's FZ16 Electric motorcycle w/ 40 bhp - Will it change the way we commu

The official review is now up on powerdrift!



Costs 3.8 lakhs as of today for that 40-45 KM range. As is customary with electrics - the battery cost dominates accounting for 65% of the cost.

Still a couple of years away from becoming a popular option due only to the price point. Otherwise I might think of investing in it just because it's clean still doesn't skimp out on the fun factor!

All the torque available from 40 Kmph that'll just be a surreal, this is where conventional engines would lose out. Sounds like a lip smacking affair to have all that torque accessible so early in the rev band so to speak.

Last edited by ashwin23 : 19th January 2014 at 10:22.
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Old 23rd January 2014, 17:12   #25
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Default Re: Tork India's FZ16 Electric motorcycle w/ 40 bhp - Will it change the way we commu

Surely , this thing keeps slipping off the mind that the transmission losses involved in electricity from grid :home is of the ratio of 2:1 , making it almost equal or at par with the thermal efficiency of any engine having 35-40% efficiency.
I also agree that the top speed specs can get a bit more hike considering the 40HP peak motor capacity.
RE Bullets of the range of 30 HP feel so powerful , FZ is much lighter - this can make it more fast.
No ill-feelings by the way, real efforts put in to create this bike, I understand.
To us , it may be just a hot thread , but to some it might have been the toiling of many sleepless nights.
Great.!!
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Old 24th January 2014, 10:30   #26
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Default Re: Tork India's FZ16 Electric motorcycle w/ 40 bhp - Will it change the way we commu

This is wonderful. Really wonderful. Hope & wish the bike manufacturers take a peek and do something for mass produce.

The bike itself is perfect. I agree with extreme_torque. I also thought that for a bike, that generates a whopping 40BHP (That's more than what my Royal Enfield classic 500 generates). So, for 40 BHP, I thought the top speed might'e been more around the 150 - 180 mark.

But nevertheless, to have gotten this far - is a real "innovation". I could suggest that they reduce the Horses in favor of Range, if possible.

The only "innovation" / change, I'd like to really see is - strip the carbon fibre sheets and the metal sheets of the bike and replace them with Solar Panels. I am sure this can be done / arranged / designed in some way. That way, we have "charging" on the go. Not much, but atleast those solar panels can extract a few extra "valuable" kilometers. And it should definitely be used in a country that has an abundance of sun.
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Old 24th January 2014, 11:20   #27
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Default Re: Tork India's FZ16 Electric motorcycle w/ 40 bhp - Will it change the way we commu

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashwin23 View Post
Agreed about energy being generated from fossil fuels. Even so this would be cheaper simply because the cost of transmitting electricity from the power plant to end user is minimal when compared to transporting fossil fuel. That alone makes up for using fossil fuels to generate electricity. I'm not sure of the numbers but this is certainly more efficient.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AkashN View Post
Surely , this thing keeps slipping off the mind that the transmission losses involved in electricity from grid :home is of the ratio of 2:1 , making it almost equal or at par with the thermal efficiency of any engine having 35-40% efficiency.
I don't know too much about this, bit AFAIK the transmission losses are dependent on the voltage across which they it is transmitted, with higher voltage leading to lower losses.
Even with a normal real life transmission the losses do not come anywhere close to the figure AkashN has mentioned to compare it to the thermal efficiency of a IC engine.

This bike is a good sign of the times ahead, lets not berate the whole concept of EV now. EV's are here to stay and its for the bright minds to figure out how to develop cleaner sources of energy/improve the efficiency of electricity production.

Here's to a greener future, cheers.
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Old 24th January 2014, 12:35   #28
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Default Re: Tork India's FZ16 Electric motorcycle w/ 40 bhp - Will it change the way we commu

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roomy View Post
I don't know too much about this, bit AFAIK the transmission losses are dependent on the voltage across which they it is transmitted, with higher voltage leading to lower losses.
Even with a normal real life transmission the losses do not come anywhere close to the figure AkashN has mentioned to compare it to the thermal efficiency of a IC engine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AkashN View Post
Surely , this thing keeps slipping off the mind that the transmission losses involved in electricity from grid :home is of the ratio of 2:1 , making it almost equal or at par with the thermal efficiency of any engine having 35-40% efficiency.
This will be one of the few times my electrical engineering background will help me. Roomy is right about voltage increase reducing power loss which is calculated as I^2*R. So higher voltage = lower current. Transmission losses over really long distances can be up to 30%. There's a different formula for calculating losses there by looking at loss/(unit distance) of transmission involving different types of loss. However smart grids circumvent these issues and real world losses are a lot lower. The US has losses well under 10% for example. I don't know to what extent they have been implemented in India but we generate power in many places so the distances are never large enough to actually hit that 30% except in remote rural areas. The problem is actually distribution losses which are a lot higher especially in the rural areas. If smart grids are implemented properly then these numbers will go down. Distribution numbers are admittedly quite high even as high as 40-50% So on aggregate that 2:1 ratio is in the ball park of what % of electricity we get. Having said that though:

Turbo Diesel engines have a 35-40% Efficiency. Some of the new petrol engines may sneak up to the 30% range but the majority of them are in the 20% to 27-28% range. An electrical engine in comparison runs at 80%+ efficiency at the very least and can go up to 90%. Also it doesn't produce emissions which is a huge deal ( a win for the vehicle not the means of generation).

Anyway we need to factor in transport for the fuel which by itself burns fuel (among other things not yet considered). So it's hard to put a finger on it exactly and say what's better and by how much, there's just too many moving parts. Depending on how the power is generated, how far away from the point of consumption it was generated, these things could change. So probably there isn't a clear cut answer to this. Theoretically, yes it's possible for the electric to not be as green as we believe it to be but the point is that we are talking about two entirely different problems. Efficiency of Vehicle vs Efficiency of the power source

EVs will become necessary so their development agnostic of current power generation, transmission or distribution methods is absolutely necessary . Viewed head to head with an IC engine, there's no arguing that they are greener and will help us all breathe better.

Alternate methods for power generation are the other piece here. Improvements here will move it from marginally ahead (experts call not mine) to decisively in favor of the EVs.

Last edited by ashwin23 : 24th January 2014 at 12:40.
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Old 24th January 2014, 12:59   #29
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Default Re: Tork India's FZ16 Electric motorcycle w/ 40 bhp - Will it change the way we commu

I think once we decide to use EVs, we will find ways to generate pollution free electricity or to improve the already existing technologies.

To ponder over pollution aspect is moot since not all power is generated by polluting plants.

The government should atleast consider giving more subsidy to the 2 wheeler EVs to encourage lower end daily use motorcycles and scooters.

Last edited by srishiva : 24th January 2014 at 13:03.
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Old 24th January 2014, 14:26   #30
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Default Re: Tork India's FZ16 Electric motorcycle w/ 40 bhp - Will it change the way we commu

Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
Isnt the top speed a bit low considering the electric motor makes 40 bhp? I mean yes the point of an electric motorcycle isnt top speed but then again, why not use a smaller motor for range instead.
The top speed is limited by the fact that its a single gear bike. The electric motor will probably be topping out at that speed.

Even if you did something basic like changed the chain sprocket for the bike, it would crank out higher top-speed numbers (but be slower accelerating at lower speeds).

One of the nice things about electric motors is that if you feed a big/powerful motor less juice, you will get "economical" performance from it. No real need to have a smaller motor (besides cost and perhaps some added efficiency). This way you can get both: performance & economy.

cya
R

EDIT: Here's another thread on Tork - link (tork india wins the opening round of 2010-TTXGP with a electric bike based on r15)
Name:  _20100711_1teamtork_560x420.jpg
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And a more recent pic from their FB page:
Tork India's FZ16 Electric motorcycle w/ 40 bhp - Will it change the way we commute?-977649_10151373905536755_2122338246_o.jpg

Last edited by Rehaan : 24th January 2014 at 14:36.
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