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Old 9th March 2014, 01:17   #31
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Default Re: Enfield TB500 or Harley Street 750?

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Originally Posted by P.S. View Post
As off now, TB500 Twilight> Street 750
Awaiting to see the street in person & get on it's saddle.
Hey P.S., I just wanted to drop in my 2 cents here, some of it will definitely be a repeat of what others have already said.

Like your broken knee, I busted my ankle a year back and it still give me an issue once in a while. Many people are going to tell you to stay away from either the HD or RE based only on it's weight. Please don't let this affect your decision until you sit on both the bikes and see how the stance suits you. Even though one may be heavier than the other, it may place much less pressure on your knees and in turn lead to a more comfortable experience. My new Kawasaki Z800 is lighter than my old Honda CB900 but in traffic I feel it puts much more pressure on my ankles than the Honda did.

I saw that you have posted that buying budget is not much of an issue, but keep in mind that service on a HD will probably be much more than the RE (I have absolutely no experience with RE's and my knowledge of them is very limited, so if I am wrong about RE service costs then my apologies), most of the "High End" brands seem to charge a unnecessary premium for their after sales, so you should try and find out what service will cost.

The same applies to Harley accessories, there will be a ton to choose from but the cost of HD accessories tend to be frighteningly expensive even for a premium brand. I'm not sure if this will apply to the new Street, I think it will, Harley's have to be retuned a little for them to make the traditional sound that most people expect from the engine - this is referred to as the Harley Tax (you can get more info by searching in the forum), so again please factor that into your cost if you want the engine to sound proper.

In terms of quality, I am sure that the street will give you the bullet proof reliability of all the other Harley's but do not expect the same feel and finish of the other HD's on the Street, it has been built to a price and due to that there will be compromises in the feel of the bike.

It may sound like I am trying to talk you away from the HD, but quite the opposite. I am not making any comments on the RE because I have no knowledge of RE bikes and don't want to pass judgement with my half know how.

For weekend rides, the Harley will get you entry into the HOG which is worth buying a Harley for in itself, it gives you a great riding group that will make you get out and on the bike every weekend.

Again I want to say, do not make any decision till you have sat and bounced and pushed and pulled both the bikes, because until you do you won't be able to tell which suits you better.
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Old 9th March 2014, 13:04   #32
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Default Re: Enfield TB500 or Harley Street 750?

Although the comparison between street 750 and TB are not apples to apples, because of the variation in power & price mainly - both of them for Harley are almost three times that of RE. But, I do appreciate a riders dilemma as well.
Money often comes to the rescue in such dilemma, 1.8 (OTR Hyderabd) vs 4.97 (OTR Hyderabad), no prize for guessing which one costs more.
Having owned a RE- TB 350 for well over a decade until selling it recently, I can vouch for its reliability. It took me to far off places, often where I was the only soul riding for hundreds of kms and many times at night. It never failed me and for reliability I'd always go for RE. It can be repaired by anyone and has many workarounds, one such is fitting an auto rickshaw chain to RE TB in case your chain breaks !! I had it once.

I doubt you would fit anything else into a Harley which is not provided by or through Harley. Shoot - people don't even wear proper helmets if they are riding Harley, they like to wear Harley accessories which cost them a hand & leg, and offers "Cosmetic Machoism".

I understand Riding is not only about transportation or racing or fun, its much more than that. Its an expression of freedom and your image when you break-free. So what image do you want to have ?

I am riding the cheapest Harley, with a puny 750 cc, when the major league actually starts 500 cc above it, and costs 3 times more. Just, so that I could have brand of Harley Davidson, and join the much acclaimed "HOG", who may also look at me as barely-in guy.

or

I am riding a bike that summarizes and honours the history of our country. It exemplifies the Indian taking over British, it has a tradition which belongs to this land. And I am riding its top of the line cruiser Bike.

I always believed, ruling the hell is better than serving the heaven.
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Old 9th March 2014, 19:26   #33
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Default Re: Enfield TB500 or Harley Street 750?

"I am riding the cheapest Harley, with a puny 750 cc, when the major league actually starts 500 cc above it, and costs 3 times more. Just, so that I could have brand of Harley Davidson, and join the much acclaimed "HOG", who may also look at me as barely-in guy.
"

That is one way to look at it but not everyone will purchase it to ride with HOGs. Being looked down at should never be a concern , the iron or fat bob owner might be looked down by a haughty softail owner who in turn might be looked down on by a 1950's knucklehead owner claiming it is the true harley but you can never let that affect judgement.

The concern however rises from how much has harley sacrificed in the name of budget to produce this bike. Are the cylinder heads of inferior cast ? Are the valve springs of inferior quality than they should be ? These are legitimate questions because from outside , it is obvious that cost cutting has been done bumper to bumper. MRF over michellin is acceptable , one can change that later but a bad engine head is not. Only time will tell...

As for puny 750cc , it is a 750cc motor that revs upto 8000rpm and has overhead cam as opposed to the heavier pushrod bikes. On paper , it should beat the iron and match the 1200cc 48 in performance . That is not puny . Another thing , what other options do we have in 3-5 lakh range ? only ninja300 comes to mind and it is a different category altogether. So the 750 if it matches the expectations is by no means a puny/wannabe motorcycle to own .

All said , there is no doubt one is paying a premium for the harley brand . And with the enfield one knows what they are getting , no idea what the harley means though...
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Old 9th March 2014, 20:32   #34
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Default Re: Enfield TB500 or Harley Street 750?

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Originally Posted by jha.shailesh View Post
I doubt you would fit anything else into a Harley which is not provided by or through Harley. Shoot - people don't even wear proper helmets if they are riding Harley, they like to wear Harley accessories which cost them a hand & leg, and offers "Cosmetic Machoism".

I am riding the cheapest Harley, with a puny 750 cc, when the major league actually starts 500 cc above it, and costs 3 times more. Just, so that I could have brand of Harley Davidson, and join the much acclaimed "HOG", who may also look at me as barely-in guy.

or

I am riding a bike that summarizes and honours the history of our country. It exemplifies the Indian taking over British, it has a tradition which belongs to this land. And I am riding its top of the line cruiser Bike.
FYI Harley's may just be one of the most customizable bikes in the world. There are god only knows how many accessories available from 3rd party manufacturers for every possible thing. So how do you claim that nothing but HD accessories fit a Harley? Also why place all HD owners into a group that only wears cosmetic safety accessories. I've seen enough people ride RE's with those dumb open face and other cosmetic helmets. Does that mean every other RE owner is also as idiotic?

If you go my the mentality that HOG owners will look down on a 750cc motor because it is smaller than other Harley's, then pretty much everybody who rides any Harley but the street glide or road king should be looked down in a HOG group. But that does not seem to be the case. Most motorcycling groups don't really care what equipment your on, as long as you can keep up safely and want to ride. Also how the bike looks to others should never be a concern, there is someone willing to complain about every bike out there. The only thing that matters is if you are happy with your bike.

Also how does RE symbolize India taking over the British, as far as I understood RE India was a subsidiary of RE. And it continued as an independent manufacturer when RE went bust in England. I am not asking this to prove some point, it is a serious question and I don't know if I'm missing something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by basuroy View Post
The concern however rises from how much has harley sacrificed in the name of budget to produce this bike. Are the cylinder heads of inferior cast ? Are the valve springs of inferior quality than they should be ? These are legitimate questions because from outside , it is obvious that cost cutting has been done bumper to bumper. MRF over michellin is acceptable , one can change that later but a bad engine head is not. Only time will tell...
More than the quality of the engine, which honestly I don't think HD would have compromised since they plan to export this design. I would be a little more concerned about the quality of after sales service, I remember seeing a post of horrible service by a dealer in Kochi I think.
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Old 9th March 2014, 21:19   #35
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Default Re: Enfield TB500 or Harley Street 750?

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Originally Posted by VellVector View Post

Also how does RE symbolize India taking over the British, as far as I understood RE India was a subsidiary of RE. And it continued as an independent manufacturer when RE went bust in England. I am not asking this to prove some point, it is a serious question and I don't know if I'm missing something.
In 1994 Enfield India (JV of Redditch (UK) & Madras Motors) merged with Eicher Motors, and now own the brand "Royal Enfield". So the 50% of UK is now owned by Indians, thats the connection. Again, not to prove any point, plain automotive history.

I am an Army Brat, so RE & everything Indian flows like blood in me. Its like the pride of owning a JLR, yes BMW and Mercs and everything are there but JLR, that's us now. Its difficult to understand this expression of honor, that's why I say Riding is an expression. its not about bhp / mods and all that good stuff. Its when you outgrow all of these and develop your own expression, it then that your riding starts. May be 750 is good, but there is no escaping the fact that its the smallest Harley and made to a cost aimed at emerging markets such India, Spain & Portugal to name a few, and from some reviews that I have got from Kansas, the other place where its being manufactured along with Street 500, its not very Harley.

Last edited by jha.shailesh : 9th March 2014 at 21:29.
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Old 9th March 2014, 21:52   #36
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Default Re: Enfield TB500 or Harley Street 750?

I am neither a Harley fan nor a RE fan, but would still dare to comment-

I feel its simple if you have the moolah spend on a Harley otherwise a RE will do.

Harley you will have to spend more to make it roadworthy increased suspension height and other basic accessories needed.

RE with its low cost accessories and the machine is nearly ready to ride in the showroom condition itself.

Harley will be high on reliability when compared to RE and high on maintenance cost too as spares are costly.

For harley you will have to guard your bike against the unwanted mischief makers. Also getting a Harley rectified from a road-side is not possible.

For me the decision will be based only on the ride and practicality and then moolah!
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Old 9th March 2014, 22:13   #37
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Default Re: Enfield TB500 or Harley Street 750?

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Originally Posted by jha.shailesh View Post
May be 750 is good, but there is no escaping the fact that its the smallest Harley and made to a cost aimed at emerging markets such India, Spain & Portugal to name a few, and from some reviews that I have got from Kansas, the other place where its being manufactured along with Street 500, its not very Harley.
I'm curious though how come you brand it not very harley ? I ask because one comes across such comment directed at the v-rod but it normally from the 'purists' riding 1950 knucklehead or the softails . There is no set definition of what is or is not an harley or honda or enfield. Thank god the company has the courage to get outside such narrow thinking and release diverse products. There is no doubt it is made to a cost , it was obvious in 5 seconds but atleast we now have another option in the 3-5 lakhs range which barely has any options otherwise.
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Old 10th March 2014, 00:53   #38
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Default Re: Enfield TB500 or Harley Street 750?

I do agree with basuroy there. You know, there was and maybe still is a mentality in STD 350 CI owners that anything other than a CI is not a true Royal Enfield or a True bullet. This has been a topic of debate among hundreds of riders & many time on this very forum itself.

I have also owned a STD 350 CI & now I own a TB500. The essence of Riding does not come from what machine you ride, but it comes from how you ride it & how much satisfaction you get riding it. I have enjoyed both the machines I have owned & when it comes to the core rider feelings, I would never discriminate between what engine my bike has.

I know purists do that a lot, but RE either TB500, continental GT,Classic or a 60 year old CI will always be an Enfield. They all belong in a group. Same goes with Harley, they have changed a lot more than RE has ( we've only had 3 Engine types ). IMO Harley any things, is a pure American Cruiser & there is and shouldn't be any looking down on.
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Old 11th March 2014, 18:03   #39
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Default Re: Enfield TB500 or Harley Street 750?

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Originally Posted by jha.shailesh View Post
Riding is an expression. its not about bhp / mods and all that good stuff. Its when you outgrow all of these and develop your own expression, it then that your riding starts
Riding is about throttle control, countersteering, understanding / managing lean angles, understanding your bike's power (BHP / Torque), its abilities & limitations, a constant desire to become a better rider & really work on it. And most important of all; enjoy doing all of the above (& more!!!!!).

When you throw technicalities like the ones above out of the door and start worrying about image, "am I being looked down upon by others" type nonsense is when riding stops - posing begins.

A lot can be said about the sense of pride in JLR ownership and the likes. I mean; its a business decision. Whats so patriotic about that? Is TATA providing a JLR to the Indians at dirt cheap prices (only respond with a yes if you consider an LR Discovery priced at over a crore cheap)? How about reliability and service? Do search around this wonderful forum and see if your eyes pop out with what some owners are being put through.

Enough OT. My advice to the OP would be the same that what given to me by Ebonho (and I am not regretting following it; not one BIT). Buy the best bike you can afford. Simple!
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Old 12th March 2014, 21:34   #40
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Default Re: Enfield TB500 or Harley Street 750?

There are many approaches to buy a Motorcycle, one of them is above, its called the "Appliance Approach", best summarized by the line-"best you can afford". It is generally best suited to buy things like A/C, Fridge, Washing machine. you look at technical stuff, cooling capacity, wattage, power consumption, star ratings, evaluate whether it fits my house and meets family requirements etc and buy the best you can afford. Unfortunately, many people use this approach to buy Motorcycles as well.

Now if it had been the above I am sure you'd not have posted this question to this forum. Because in terms of technicalities there is hardly a comparison between these two.

I am talking about the other approach... if you're Biker you know what I am talking about.
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Old 12th March 2014, 22:34   #41
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Default Re: Enfield TB500 or Harley Street 750?

Will summarize things in one sentence -> Head = TB500, Heart = HD750

Thinking through brain...buying is one time affair, but maintenance is for lifetime. Just think over if you want to buy clutch cables for Rs 200 or Rs 2000, oil filter for few 100's or few 1000's. Tires costing an arm & eye? Love scrapping you expensive toy at speed breakers?

Thinking through heart...you live only once, so go buy that thing you love, show it up on FB, show it up on your weekend rides or organized rides and like HD says, "Welcome to life on a Harley your life will never be the same again"

Only question is whom will you listen to?
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Old 13th March 2014, 02:41   #42
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Default Re: Enfield TB500 or Harley Street 750?

Thanks for the input guys, shall multi-quote & revert tomorrow!

read power of street is 65nm@4000 rpm
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Old 13th March 2014, 07:28   #43
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Default Re: Enfield TB500 or Harley Street 750?

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Originally Posted by jha.shailesh View Post
There are many approaches to buy a Motorcycle, one of them is above, its called the "Appliance Approach", best summarized by the line-"best you can afford". It is generally best suited to buy things like A/C, Fridge, Washing machine. you look at technical stuff, cooling capacity, wattage, power consumption, star ratings, evaluate whether it fits my house and meets family requirements etc and buy the best you can afford. Unfortunately, many people use this approach to buy Motorcycles as well.

Now if it had been the above I am sure you'd not have posted this question to this forum. Because in terms of technicalities there is hardly a comparison between these two.

I am talking about the other approach... if you're Biker you know what I am talking about.
I will admit that it gets significantly easier when the best you can afford also tugs at your heart strings the strongest.

Eventually for any biker it is most always the heart over the head. But what we oftentimes see is people making compromises and buying the best "compromise" bike rather than the one that they really lust for put which probably does not make much sense one way or the other.

It is then that the appliance theory you talk about really kicks in. The guy lands up buying the most sensible mechanical investment rather than the machine he really wants to buy - when you sweep away all peripheral rational thought.

I have seen such guys, often in my close friend and biker circle, and have learned to recognize their decision patterns. And normally its the next best (and cheaper option) - which does most things nearly as good, but does nothing best.

Hope that clarifies.

Last edited by ebonho : 13th March 2014 at 07:47.
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