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Old 12th July 2016, 20:59   #286
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Default Re: The Duke of Direwolves - Lisbeth, my KTM Duke 200

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Originally Posted by unk9ja View Post
And this is how a failed stator coil will look like. Take from my friend's bike.
So three of the eighteen coils got burnt in this stator...

Quote:
Originally Posted by theexperthand View Post
I think any good quality washer will do. Why go for the jugaad when rubber washers are available for dime a dozen?
What are the dimensions of the rubber bushes/washers in your bash plate?

Quote:
this can be done maximum in 1 hour, if a mechanic is working exclusively on your bike.
Then I will just drop in tomorrow morning when the SVC opens to be first in queue.

Quote:
If SVC remove bash plate, then it is definitely a 3 hour job - 1 hour to replace the coil, 2 hours to fix the bash plate
In any case, I need to get the forward brackets changed. Like I mentioned before my existing ones are the separate type. I bought the conjoined type bracket... which will be a pain to fit. Let's see how it goes.

Quote:
This was how my stator coil looked:
WAITER: "How do you like your steak, sir? Rare, medium or well done?"
YOU: "Like this..." (Shows photo of stator)
WAITER: "Very well, sir. One steak, charred by hellfire."


Quote:
Originally Posted by unk9ja View Post
The bush from the Indimotard is nearly 10 mm thick and was not rubber. Rubber would disintegrate due to the heat in the vicinity. It looked like suspension bush material. I am planning to drop down at Indi next week. Do you want me to get a set and courier to you.
Could you please ask them what material it is? Suspension bushes are made of hard rubber in the CI Bullets and nylon in the first batch of the Classic 500. The rocker cover gasket in the 200 is made of rubber (or black silicone?) and withstands heat from the cylinder head.

Also, the 390 and 200 have different mounting brackets. Indimotard provides brackets for the 390, if I'm not mistaken, and the plate itself is longer. The one for the 200 uses stock brackets. 10mm spacers will not allow use of stock brackets in the 200. Anoop can comment here.

Regards,
Siddharth.
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Old 13th July 2016, 12:01   #287
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Default Re: The Duke of Direwolves - Lisbeth, my KTM Duke 200

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Originally Posted by unk9ja View Post
The bush from the Indimotard is nearly 10 mm thick and was not rubber. Rubber would disintegrate due to the heat in the vicinity. It looked like suspension bush material. I am planning to drop down at Indi next week. Do you want me to get a set and courier to you.
Thank you. Unfortunately, I didn't pay much attention to the bushes, so not sure what the material is. If we can't use rubber, can we use nylon bushes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Possible to take corresponding Ohm readings from this burnt out stator?

Regards
Sutripta
Sorry, I do not have the stator coil any more - I dumped it at Auto Service itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Sid View Post

In any case, I need to get the forward brackets changed. Like I mentioned before my existing ones are the separate type. I bought the conjoined type bracket... which will be a pain to fit. Let's see how it goes.
One piece of advise - get the bracket first fixed on the bash plate and then fix the bracket to the bike. Don't fix the bracket first and try to fix the bash plate to the bracket. It is much easier this way.

Quote:

WAITER: "How do you like your steak, sir? Rare, medium or well done?"
YOU: "Like this..." (Shows photo of stator)
WAITER: "Very well, sir. One steak, charred by hellfire."



Quote:
Could you please ask them what material it is? Suspension bushes are made of hard rubber in the CI Bullets and nylon in the first batch of the Classic 500. The rocker cover gasket in the 200 is made of rubber (or black silicone?) and withstands heat from the cylinder head.
yes, it will be good to get clarity from Indimotard about the type of washers they use.

The bashplate did come with nuts and bolts to fit it on the brackets, and they fixed the bash plate on my OEM brackets. I unfortunately didn't observe the thickness or the material of the washer.

Quote:
Also, the 390 and 200 have different mounting brackets. Indimotard provides brackets for the 390, if I'm not mistaken, and the plate itself is longer. The one for the 200 uses stock brackets. 10mm spacers will not allow use of stock brackets in the 200. Anoop can comment here.

Regards,
Siddharth.
The washers are for the bolts which attaches the bash plates to the mounting bracket, and the washers which they provided did work with my OEM brackets. They do not provide washers to put between the mounting bracket and bike itself. If they do provide such washers, it is a news to me and I will be first in line to get them fixed

@unk9ja: It will be great if you can confirm this.

--Anoop
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Old 13th July 2016, 17:07   #288
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So I got the stator replaced today and a couple of other things. Cost about 2k for just the stator replacement which included the new stator unit, gasket, labour and 400 ml fresh oil. I decided not to reuse the oil that came out of the chamber because some of the dirt underneath the engine came in contact with oil as it flowed out.

The bike now seems to require a longer crank than usual to start every time but I need to observe that further. I have only ridden it maybe 15-20 km after the repair but so far I haven't yet noticed the speedo read zero while in motion. I didn't look as often as I usually do but so far it looks alright. So even if the long crank issue doesn't get correct with the stator replacement but the speedo zero issue goes away, this expenditure will not have been a waste as the latter was related to the stator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theexperthand View Post
One piece of advise - get the bracket first fixed on the bash plate and then fix the bracket to the bike. Don't fix the bracket first...
The mechanic didn't take that approach. The forward bracket was replaced and then the plate was mounted. He just needed my help to hold the plate up to insert the rear bolts which was a little tricky but it took him all of 5 minutes to replace the bracket AND mount the plate.

Lesson from this is that when buying this plate for a 200, buy a new bracket or both of them.


Quote:
yes, it will be good to get clarity from Indimotard about the type of washers they use.

I unfortunately didn't observe the thickness or the material of the washer.

They do not provide washers to put between the mounting bracket and bike itself. If they do provide such washers, it is a news to me and I will be first in line to get them fixed

@unk9ja: It will be great if you can confirm this.
If there is no washer/spacer between the plate and the brackets and only between the bolt heads and the plate, that will be very simple as I can simply pick up some squishy washers from the local hardware/mill store.

Also, the mounting of the 390's stock belly pan is quite different from that of the 200's and you can see that by simply looking at both bikes. Mount points are much higher on the 390 and the bolts go near the top edge of the cowl rather that between the slats. I am very certain that the bushes for the 390 will not fit the 200.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Possible to take corresponding Ohm readings from this burnt out stator?

Regards
Sutripta
My stator did not burn out so even I can't answer your question. However, I asked the mechanic how the new revised stators differ from the old ones. The new ones have better varnish to prevent shorting between the windings. The 3-wire output cable is also mounted more securely. Sorry I forgot to click a picture of the new stator.


I also got handlebar risers installed. One inch height increase and while there hasn't been a dramatic change the position is definitely more comfortable especially coupled with the new Ceat Vertigo Sport 100/90-17 in front.

However, the throttle cable stays taut now but is not causing an issue after reducing free play. The clutch cable, though, is affected by the handguard mounts. When the handlebar is turned to the left limit the free play disappears and that upsets my sense of the point of engagement of the clutch. I'll need to get different mounts fabricated for the guard so that the cable stays clear of it.
Attached Thumbnails
The Duke of Direwolves - Lisbeth, my KTM Duke 200-img_20160713_103154_1468406786786.jpg  

The Duke of Direwolves - Lisbeth, my KTM Duke 200-img_20160713_103213_1468406813227.jpg  

The Duke of Direwolves - Lisbeth, my KTM Duke 200-img_20160713_121511_1468406845561.jpg  

The Duke of Direwolves - Lisbeth, my KTM Duke 200-img_20160713_121547_1468406881926.jpg  


Last edited by Darth Sid : 13th July 2016 at 17:10. Reason: Attached pictures
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Old 13th July 2016, 17:24   #289
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Default Re: The Duke of Direwolves - Lisbeth, my KTM Duke 200

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Originally Posted by theexperthand View Post
Thank you. Unfortunately, I didn't pay much attention to the bushes, so not sure what the material is. If we can't use rubber, can we use nylon bushes?
Yes Nylon bushes can be used. Next time I drop down to Indi, I will ask them and update here.
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Old 13th July 2016, 17:42   #290
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Default Re: The Duke of Direwolves - Lisbeth, my KTM Duke 200

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Originally Posted by Darth Sid View Post
So I got the stator replaced today and a couple of other things. Cost about 2k for just the stator replacement which included the new stator unit, gasket, labour and 400 ml fresh oil. I decided not to reuse the oil that came out of the chamber because some of the dirt underneath the engine came in contact with oil as it flowed out.
Good - but was your stator coil bad, or you just did a preventive replacement?

Quote:
The bike now seems to require a longer crank than usual to start every time but I need to observe that further. I have only ridden it maybe 15-20 km after the repair but so far I haven't yet noticed the speedo read zero while in motion. I didn't look as often as I usually do but so far it looks alright. So even if the long crank issue doesn't get correct with the stator replacement but the speedo zero issue goes away, this expenditure will not have been a waste as the latter was related to the stator.
Strange that the crank is longer now. Did the SVC provide any analysis about this?

Quote:
The mechanic didn't take that approach. The forward bracket was replaced and then the plate was mounted. He just needed my help to hold the plate up to insert the rear bolts which was a little tricky but it took him all of 5 minutes to replace the bracket AND mount the plate.

Lesson from this is that when buying this plate for a 200, buy a new bracket or both of them.
Wow, that was nice. We ended up spending close to an hour or so for putting back my bash plate after the last service.

Quote:
I also got handlebar risers installed. One inch height increase and while there hasn't been a dramatic change the position is definitely more comfortable especially coupled with the new Ceat Vertigo Sport 100/90-17 in front.

However, the throttle cable stays taut now but is not causing an issue after reducing free play. The clutch cable, though, is affected by the handguard mounts. When the handlebar is turned to the left limit the free play disappears and that upsets my sense of the point of engagement of the clutch. I'll need to get different mounts fabricated for the guard so that the cable stays clear of it.
I also have 1 inch risers installed but didn't face any issues with any cables. I think you can just try re-routing them if required. Which knuckle guards are you using? I use the knuckle guards of D390.

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Originally Posted by unk9ja View Post
Yes Nylon bushes can be used. Next time I drop down to Indi, I will ask them and update here.
Thank you!

--Anoop
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Old 13th July 2016, 18:45   #291
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Originally Posted by theexperthand View Post
Good - but was your stator coil bad, or you just did a preventive replacement?
The pictures I have attached to my previous post are of the old stator. There doesn't seem to be any visible damage on it. So the replacement is preventive. If the speedo doesn't go zero again, the old stator was faulty.

Quote:
Strange that the crank is longer now. Did the SVC provide any analysis about this?
I noticed this later so I haven't asked the SVC about it. Like I said previously, I will need to observe this further. I'll check again tonight and tomorrow.

Quote:
Wow, that was nice. We ended up spending close to an hour or so for putting back my bash plate after the last service.
Besides the brackets, the other variables are the construction of the plate itself. Though I'm sure they use a common die for making all the plates, maybe there is a slight variation.

Quote:
I also have 1 inch risers installed but didn't face any issues with any cables. I think you can just try re-routing them if required. Which knuckle guards are you using? I use the knuckle guards of D390.
I might have to reroute the cables. The mechanic also suggested that he can install a Bajaj (non-KTM) clutch cable to alleviate this issue if it becomes too much of a problem. The knuckle guards are generic ones I bought for 800 rupees from Karol Bagh in Delhi. They have a metal spine on to which the plastic covers are bolted.

Last edited by Darth Sid : 13th July 2016 at 18:46.
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Old 13th July 2016, 18:45   #292
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Default Re: The Duke of Direwolves - Lisbeth, my KTM Duke 200

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Originally Posted by Darth Sid View Post

However, the throttle cable stays taut now but is not causing an issue after reducing free play. The clutch cable, though, is affected by the handguard mounts. When the handlebar is turned to the left limit the free play disappears and that upsets my sense of the point of engagement of the clutch. I'll need to get different mounts fabricated for the guard so that the cable stays clear of it.
Hold off on that fabrication bud. Had the exact same issue with the risers on my 390. My Gurgaon go-to mech solved it after what was admittedly a really long time

Replace the clutch cable with that of the RC 390. Problem solved. Some re routing will still be needed (look at the previous post on this very thread for pics) but the problem is 100% resolved
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Old 13th July 2016, 19:11   #293
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Default Re: The Duke of Direwolves - Lisbeth, my KTM Duke 200

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Hold off on that fabrication bud. Had the exact same issue with the risers on my 390. My Gurgaon go-to mech solved it after what was admittedly a really long time

Replace the clutch cable with that of the RC 390. Problem solved. Some re routing will still be needed (look at the previous post on this very thread for pics) but the problem is 100% resolved
Looks like we posted almost at the same time. The option of installing a different cable is available as the mechanic himself suggested and I might go for it. But the slack issue in the clutch cable is not the only reason to fabricate a new mount. The existing one snapped at the lower half and needs replacement anyway.

Weirdly, I couldn't find your post with pics on this thread. Maybe all images are not loading here for me.
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Old 13th July 2016, 20:08   #294
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Default Re: The Duke of Direwolves - Lisbeth, my KTM Duke 200

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Originally Posted by theexperthand View Post
Sorry, I do not have the stator coil any more - I dumped it at Auto Service itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Sid View Post

My stator did not burn out so even I can't answer your question. However, I asked the mechanic how the new revised stators differ from the old ones. The new ones have better varnish to prevent shorting between the windings.
So we wait till someone here has a visibly burnt stator. I'm really interested in the readings.

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 13th July 2016, 20:18   #295
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Default Re: The Duke of Direwolves - Lisbeth, my KTM Duke 200

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Originally Posted by Darth Sid View Post
Looks like we posted almost at the same time. The option of installing a different cable is available as the mechanic himself suggested and I might go for it. But the slack issue in the clutch cable is not the only reason to fabricate a new mount. The existing one snapped at the lower half and needs replacement anyway.

Weirdly, I couldn't find your post with pics on this thread. Maybe all images are not loading here for me.
I haven't changed the cable or rerouted it so I think you can still use the original cable. Where did you procure the handlebar risers from and how much did they cost?

Instead of fabricating a new mount for the generic knuckle guard, why don't you switch over to the D 390 knuckle guards? Or, if you really want something different, KTM have a power part knuckle guard for around 2K IIRC which is made really well.

--Anoop
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Old 13th July 2016, 21:23   #296
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Default Re: The Duke of Direwolves - Lisbeth, my KTM Duke 200

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I haven't changed the cable or rerouted it so I think you can still use the original cable. Where did you procure the handlebar risers from and how much did they cost?

Instead of fabricating a new mount for the generic knuckle guard, why don't you switch over to the D 390 knuckle guards? Or, if you really want something different, KTM have a power part knuckle guard for around 2K IIRC which is made really well.

--Anoop
Getting the handguard mount out of the way should take care of the clutch cable. The ones on my bike have a metal spine and that was a factor when I bought them. That and the price. The ones from the 390 do not have that IIRC. Wouldn't they require a 390's handlebar too? Also, don't the Powerparts knuckle guards cost almost 7k? I remember they used to be super expensive.

For the risers I just referred to Deelip Menizes' website. I wonder if I spelled his name correctly. Cost was as follows:

Aluminium bar 35mm diameter - 80 INR
A pair of high tensile (12.9 class) M10 bolts with nyloc nuts - 60 INR
Lathe turner's labour - 200 INR
Total - 340 INR

All stuff locally procured in NOIDA. The bar was 4 inches long so there is still enough left for one single piece of those risers. Some metal gets wasted when cutting off the individual units. Some trimming also needs to be done.

The labour I paid at the SVC today was 172.50 INR per their rates including tax.

Via Terra also makes the same kind of risers for the Duke. 800 INR for the black finish and 900 for silver.
Attached Thumbnails
The Duke of Direwolves - Lisbeth, my KTM Duke 200-img_20160713_211331_1468424686059.jpg  

The Duke of Direwolves - Lisbeth, my KTM Duke 200-img_20160702_195850_1_1468425038261.jpg  

Attached Images
 

Last edited by Darth Sid : 13th July 2016 at 21:25. Reason: Added Via Terra info.
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Old 13th July 2016, 22:42   #297
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Originally Posted by Darth Sid View Post
don't the Powerparts knuckle guards cost almost 7k?
The knuckle guards are 7k indeed. I enquired about the part while taking delivery of my bike. However, on learning the price, I dropped the idea.
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Old 13th July 2016, 22:48   #298
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Default Re: The Duke of Direwolves - Lisbeth, my KTM Duke 200

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So the replacement is preventive. If the speedo doesn't go zero again, the old stator was faulty.
Yup, that's right. A preventive replacement. I just rode back from office and the speedo is going zero intermittently, just not as frequently as it was happening in the last few days but often enough to be noticed. That's 2k donated to KTM. This means the old stator was not faulty.

Next up on my list of suspects is the battery. Stepping back to the results of the voltage test, I had mentioned that I saw a low battery warning when I turned on the ignition after the bike had been left unused for 4 days. The voltage dropped from 12.78 to about 12.35. I asked the mechanics there about this while the stator was being changed. They told me that the threshold for the low battery alarm to be triggered is 12.5V. They also said that after the ignition is turned on, the drop in voltage should be in the order of 0.2V and not as much as I observed. The fuel pump does not drain a very large amount of current when it primes.

I will perform a test to confirm or rule out the battery as a causal factor this weekend. I will make a pair of jumper cables and connect my car's battery to my bike's before I start it in the morning. That should tell me if the battery is past its prime or not. Don't know where I kept those alligator clips. 6 sq mm wires should be adequate.

I'm not going to be making any more expenditures this month now due to other commitments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vignesh_N/A View Post
The knuckle guards are 7k indeed. I enquired about the part while taking delivery of my bike. However, on learning the price, I dropped the idea.
Well, there you go. 7k is too much for something that plants passionate kisses on the occasional ORVM of cars in heavy traffic.

Last edited by Darth Sid : 13th July 2016 at 22:51. Reason: Quoted @Vignesh's post
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Old 14th July 2016, 12:19   #299
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Default Re: The Duke of Direwolves - Lisbeth, my KTM Duke 200

[quote=Darth Sid;4014755]Getting the handguard mount out of the way should take care of the clutch cable. The ones on my bike have a metal spine and that was a factor when I bought them. That and the price. The ones from the 390 do not have that IIRC. Wouldn't they require a 390's handlebar too? Also, don't the Powerparts knuckle guards cost almost 7k? I remember they used to be super expensive.
[quote]
I am using D390 knuckle guards on D 200 handlebar, coupled with end weights from Apache. It is a direct fit and you do not need to change the handlebar.

The D390 do not have a metal spine, but is joined at the bar end side.

There is a cheaper one also available, priced at around 2K or 3K, IIRC. I was not aware of this (was aware of only the 7K one) but saw this at KTM SVC during my last service.

Quote:
For the risers I just referred to Deelip Menizes' website. I wonder if I spelled his name correctly. Cost was as follows:

Aluminium bar 35mm diameter - 80 INR
A pair of high tensile (12.9 class) M10 bolts with nyloc nuts - 60 INR
Lathe turner's labour - 200 INR
Total - 340 INR

All stuff locally procured in NOIDA. The bar was 4 inches long so there is still enough left for one single piece of those risers. Some metal gets wasted when cutting off the individual units. Some trimming also needs to be done.

The labour I paid at the SVC today was 172.50 INR per their rates including tax.

Via Terra also makes the same kind of risers for the Duke. 800 INR for the black finish and 900 for silver.
Ah OH - very cost effective and a nice DIY. I got the raisers from Indimotard and they are differently shaped. - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motorb...ml#post3924134 (The Duke of Direwolves - Lisbeth, my KTM Duke 200)

The labor charges are very reasonable, but I have seen that it varies from SVC to SVC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vignesh_N/A View Post
The knuckle guards are 7k indeed. I enquired about the part while taking delivery of my bike. However, on learning the price, I dropped the idea.
Hi Vignaesh, there are two knuckle guards available as per the SVC - one costs around 7K and other - 2K or 3K.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Sid View Post
Yup, that's right. A preventive replacement.
....

That should tell me if the battery is past its prime or not. Don't know where I kept those alligator clips. 6 sq mm wires should be adequate.
Damn! That is 2K down the drain. Please let us know the results after checking the battery. I have heard that the battery usually lasts only 2 years, so I am expecting my battery to conk off any time soon. Is there any other alternatives to the Exide battery? Any idea if Amaron makes battery for Duke? I have been a die hard amaron user (currently uses Amaron battery in my Unicorn, Cars, Inverter and Generator) so if there is a product from Amaron, I will go for it eyes closed.

--Anoop
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Old 14th July 2016, 17:11   #300
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Default Re: The Duke of Direwolves - Lisbeth, my KTM Duke 200

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Originally Posted by Darth Sid View Post
This means the old stator was not faulty.

Next up on my list of suspects is the battery.

I'm not going to be making any more expenditures this month now due to other commitments.
Does your service center have a ECU scantool with them. It is much easier to get to the root cause of problems with the ECU error codes recorded. Push them up to get one out of their cupboards and check for any error codes in your bike which can pinpoint to the cause of the issue.

Earlier this month, one of my friend had a close call when his bike stalled. He had observed this stalling issue for sometime before this and visits to the SVC did not materialise. Later I accompanied him to the SVC and asked the SA to hook the tool and check. A scantool record showed his left indicator control voltage going high and low at certain times. Armed with this, and a closer look at the wiring harness, a small tear was found which used to touch metal part and the bike stalled when this happened.

Here is the photo of the scantool which is being used in all the SVC.

The Duke of Direwolves - Lisbeth, my KTM Duke 200-20150520_132809.jpg

By the way, this is the new generation tool. Earlier to this a metal box was used to check which was not so reliable.
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