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Old 13th October 2016, 12:43   #331
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Default Re: The Duke of Direwolves - Lisbeth, my KTM Duke 200

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Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post
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Don't take this personally because you are not alone but, that first picture shows a chain that has been totally neglected.
Hi Jim,

Thank you for taking time to write a lengthy post to explain the importance of chain maintenance.

I agree that the chain looks rusty and not at all cared for, but be assured that the reality is far from it

I regularly clean and lube my chain on every alternate weekends - an average interval of 500-600 km, and adjusts the slack when required. The red color you see are the aftermaths of an off road ride I did couple of days before - I did not clean the chain because any way I was going to change it. Otherwise, I clean and lube the chain after each off road ride too.

I have been using tribocor chain clean and lube for last few years, but have switched to Motul from last month.

I usually warm up the chain a bit by riding the bike for few km, and then spray the cleaner liberally and use a grunge brush to loosen the dirt. After that, I use cotton waste to rub off the muck and apply the cleaner again if required. Once the chain is clean, I give it a final wipe with cotton waste and then I apply the lube and let it stand for at least half a day.

While Tribocor is an excellent lube, it is messy to apply and almost impossible to clean, and ends up collecting lot of dust and debris, so now I have switched to Motul, which is not messy (Tribocor is foam based, while Motul is like a clear liquid) but will require frequent application than Tribocor.

I do this whole exercise after popping my bike on the paddock stand, with engine switched off.

--Anoop
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Old 13th October 2016, 19:29   #332
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Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post
theexperthand
Don't take this personally because you are not alone but, that first picture shows a chain that has been totally neglected.
Could you please let me know if automated chain oilers like a scottoiler is a good way to go? What is your feedback on a system like this?
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Old 14th October 2016, 02:29   #333
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Default Re: The Duke of Direwolves - Lisbeth, my KTM Duke 200

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Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
Could you please let me know if automated chain oilers like a scottoiler is a good way to go? What is your feedback on a system like this?
For those who don't know, the "Scottoiler" is a device which automatically oils the rear drive chain when it is installed and adjusted correctly.

It has a nozzle that is located above one of the rear chain spans (preferably the lower one) to direct the oil onto the chain.
It has a small oil tank on it and a vacuum operated valve which only allows oil to pass thru it to the nozzle when the engine is running.
A adjustable valve is present to control the amount of oil that flows out of the device.

While there is no denying the Scottoiler does a good job of lubricating the chain after it is adjusted properly, it does not eliminate the need to keep an eye on the chain.
Basically, it removes the need to manually lubricate the chain but it adds the task of keeping an eye on the oil level in the tank and refilling it with oil on a regular basis.

The price for these oilers is (IMO) VERY high.
On the web, I saw prices ranging from $100 to $140 for it.
Forgive me if I'm wrong but at the current exchange rate that would be about 80001333 rupee plus any taxation that would be added.

I mentioned a vacuum valve which keeps the oil from leaking out while the engine is off.

This valve requires a tube which is attached to a vacuum port on the inlet manifold between the carburetor or fuel injector and the inlet port on the engine.

I don't know about your Duke but on my Fuel Injected, Royal Enfield, 500 I would be out of luck. There is no vacuum port on my motorcycle.
If I decided to buy a Scottoiler and install it, I would need to drill and thread a hole in the aluminum inlet manifold.

To accomplish this without getting metal chips inside the engine I would have to remove the manifold, obtain the right tap drill and tap to thread the hole and then put it all back together again.

As I mentioned, it takes a bit of messing with the adjustment control, keeping an eye on the oil level and refilling it when it is needed and modifying my engine so it would work.

With the high cost of the unit as well as the cost of the oil that must be constantly added to it I will stick to using my spray can of PJ1 chain oil.

I can buy a LOT of chain oil for the cost of a Scottoiler and by lubricating the chain myself, I am able to see if any of the links are beginning to bind up.
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Old 17th January 2017, 18:50   #334
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Default Re: The Duke of Direwolves - Lisbeth, my KTM Duke 200

Posting few pics of a recent trail ride, to keep the thread alive.

The Duke of Direwolves - Lisbeth, my KTM Duke 200-img_20170112_094215_hdr.jpg

The Duke of Direwolves - Lisbeth, my KTM Duke 200-img_20170112_094415_hdr.jpg

The Duke of Direwolves - Lisbeth, my KTM Duke 200-img_20170112_094504_hdr.jpg

Name:  IMG_20170113_092447.jpg
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--Anoop
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Old 17th January 2017, 21:48   #335
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Default Re: The Duke of Direwolves - Lisbeth, my KTM Duke 200

Haven't logged in to team-bhp for a while now. Good to see you taking to trails every now and then. I wish I could do the same often but haven't had the opportunity. Anyway, I have a small update on my starting issue...

My bike had developed yet another issue (like that's news) about 2-3 months back. The throttle stopped closing fully on releasing the grip. For some time I adapted my riding style to accommodate this problem but then in December I finally took the bike to the service centre with a can of 3M Throttle Body Cleaner.

Removed the throttle body which was black and covered with thick grime and generously sprayed the inside. Cleaned up the throttle body nicely while focusing on the holes that hold the butterfly shaft. This did not help as the mechanic had forewarned. Manually closing the butterfly would require effort and the shaft is sealed into the throttle body which meant that the problem could not be corrected. I left the bike at the service centre until the mechanic could arrange (for a fee) for a used throttle body from someone who deals in parts of completely wrecked bikes of all kinds. Brand new unit costs 8000 INR (expensive for a part that required replacement within 36000 km) while I got the used unit for over a quarter. Difficult to acquire, though.

Now the replacement corrected the throttle return issue but the bike's behaviour has changed. Firstly, I have lost some of the mid range torque that I had gained with the weather getting cold. But on the flip side, throttle response is smoother than before as is the overall feel of the engine. Second, when I cold start the bike the idle rpm jumps to 2000 or so for one second and quickly returns to 1500 until the engine gets hot when it goes down to 1100.

This brings me to the long running issue for long cranks while cold starting. It now occurs on less than half the instances, though starting the bike after it has been parked for at least 2-3 days is still the quickest. Since the behaviour was loosely linked to ambient temperature, I had a feeling that some temperature sensor might have something to do with this. Since the whole throttle body has been replaced, which includes the intake temp sensor, it makes sense that the issue has been alleviated.

I also got the cylinder compression checked that day to see if the valves or rings are gone. I have forgotten the exact readings. Hooked up the gauge and checked first with the throttle closed and the reading was about 10 kg/cm2. Checked twice with the throttle fully open and readings were around 12 kg/cm2. Again, not completely sure. Mech said the carbon deposits might be interfering with the readings and that opening the head should only be considered if the problem gets worse.

So now, besides the radiator and fan, the entire drivetrain has been replaced!


Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post
Without the proper lubrication, the links in the chain will wear internally causing the distance between the rollers to increase.
When this happens, the sprockets teeth become bent, like the ones you have shown in the first two photos.
As the sprocket teeth become bent they cause further damage to the chain.
Thanks for sharing this. I was not aware that this is why the front sprocket wears out like that. Same happens on our old '79 Bullet 350 which has never had any O/X/Z-ring chain used on it. We used to keep the breather pipe duckbill pointed at the chain but that would spatter the rear wheel with oil. Now the breather pipe is just pointed at the ground especially since the engine is wet sumping.
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Old 20th January 2017, 12:14   #336
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Default Re: The Duke of Direwolves - Lisbeth, my KTM Duke 200

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Sid View Post
My bike had developed yet another issue (like that's news) about 2-3 months back. The throttle stopped closing fully on releasing the grip.
.....

So now, besides the radiator and fan, the entire drivetrain has been replaced!
Phew! It is an understatement to say that your bike have been plagued with issues. I hope this marks the end and you get to enjoy a trouble-free ownership.

Any idea why the throttle body had so much muck in it and why it failed so early?

--Anoop
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Old 20th January 2017, 13:59   #337
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Default Re: The Duke of Direwolves - Lisbeth, my KTM Duke 200

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Originally Posted by theexperthand View Post
Phew! It is an understatement to say that your bike have been plagued with issues.
I have a talent for understatement.

Well, I am used to the fact that my bike will continue to give me trouble. I now deem it unwise to question the inevitability of mechanical/electrical trouble that my bike brings.

Quote:
I hope this marks the end and you get to enjoy a trouble-free ownership.
Ahem... Actually, there is something else... I discovered, a day after my previous post, a spot of condensation of moisture on the inside of the oil level inspection window. Now, I'd like to think it is just the extreme cold making water condense on everything since the oil itself (since the oil is still red and not very frothy) but I doubt it. It could be coolant mixing with the oil. The most likely cause of that would be the coolant pump shaft seal. That is the first thing that failed in my previous engine. I don't think it is the head gasket, which is generally the most common cause of coolant-oil mixing. Also, the coolant level had gone down to minimum but not abruptly. In any case my coolant keeps on spilling out if it is at or above the half way mark.

I will monitor the bike from here on.

Quote:
Any idea why the throttle body had so much muck in it and why it failed so early?
Well, I wouldn't use the term "failure" for this issue. Any throttle body will have some muck on it. I don't think mine was ever cleaned. But regardless of whether it is cleaned or not, the butterfly should not have been sticking after such a thorough cleaning session. My guess is that either my last fill of petrol was bad or most likely the bushes that hold the butterfly shaft wore out and developed enough clearance to allow some of the gummy residue into the gap.

Whatever be the reason, 36000 km is too soon for a throttle body replacement. I mean all CV carbs have butterfly valves and they don't go bad easily. I changed my old 220's carb at about 40000 km and mainly because the rubber diaphragm of the slide had started to go somewhat stiff. That was a UCAL carb while my Duke had a Dell'Orto throttle body.

You know what? Even though I really want that new Duke 390 with its great looks, LED headlight and funky console, the ride by wire feature really scares me. Adding even more sophistication to a bike that is likely to develop some faults is a bad idea from my perspective. Perhaps the outgoing Duke 390 is a safer choice since it is 3 years into its product lifecycle. But like you I like to go off road every now and then. My brand new rear alloy rim already has a slight bend! I think I need the Himalayan...

How ironic, to look to a Royal Enfield for a reliable product!
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Old 30th January 2017, 16:51   #338
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Default Re: The Duke of Direwolves - Lisbeth, my KTM Duke 200

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Originally Posted by Darth Sid View Post

I will monitor the bike from here on.
Phew! What is the latest status?

Quote:
I think I need the Himalayan...

How ironic, to look to a Royal Enfield for a reliable product!
Now THAT is irony

But Himalayan seems to be a good product and I have heard that RE is really trying hard to iron out all the niggles. If you are serious, wait for 6 more months.

Few pics from last week's ride to Thimmappa Swamy Bette with 2 fellow riders:
The Duke of Direwolves - Lisbeth, my KTM Duke 200-whatsapp-image-20170129-3.04.51-pm.jpeg

The Duke of Direwolves - Lisbeth, my KTM Duke 200-whatsapp-image-20170129-1.01.08-pm.jpeg

The Duke of Direwolves - Lisbeth, my KTM Duke 200-whatsapp-image-20170129-3.05.49-pm-1.jpeg

The Duke of Direwolves - Lisbeth, my KTM Duke 200-whatsapp-image-20170129-3.05.49-pm-2.jpeg

The Duke of Direwolves - Lisbeth, my KTM Duke 200-whatsapp-image-20170129-3.05.49-pm.jpeg

The Duke of Direwolves - Lisbeth, my KTM Duke 200-whatsapp-image-20170129-3.06.29-pm-1.jpeg

The Duke of Direwolves - Lisbeth, my KTM Duke 200-whatsapp-image-20170129-3.06.29-pm-2.jpeg

The Duke of Direwolves - Lisbeth, my KTM Duke 200-whatsapp-image-20170129-3.06.29-pm.jpeg

--Anoop
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Old 30th January 2017, 17:51   #339
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Default Re: The Duke of Direwolves - Lisbeth, my KTM Duke 200

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Originally Posted by theexperthand View Post
Few pics from last week's ride to Thimmappa Swamy Bette with 2 fellow riders:
Lovely pics! So, so sad to have missed this offroading session!
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Old 30th January 2017, 20:55   #340
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Default Re: The Duke of Direwolves - Lisbeth, my KTM Duke 200

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Originally Posted by man_of_steel View Post
Lovely pics! So, so sad to have missed this offroading session!
Yup - really missed you and NFS. We should go back there once more - there are many trails left to explore.

--Anoop
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