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Old 16th July 2014, 00:02   #1
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Angry Royal Enfield: I Killed the ECU

So, I wired my 500 EFI engine on the table for dyno testing today morning, the engine malfunction light came on for 3 seconds, got off and again came on after 2-3 seconds. So I started to verify all the connections, removed the taping, and checked for continuity using a multi meter. After this, connected the battery. Now what happened, a wire from 12V battery terminal shorted with the sensor high wire (5V) from the ECU. A small spark flew, and everything went off. No warning light, no spark in ignition coil while cranking, nothing. There were no fuses, no relays, nothing . Everything was connected directly.
I guess I have killed the ECU, but is there any way to bring it back to life? Can it be opened anyways? It looks well sealed.
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Old 16th July 2014, 03:04   #2
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Default re: Royal Enfield: I Killed the ECU

First, let me say that only a few RE mechanics are qualified to mess with the wiring or terminals directly connected at the ECU. Also, even if the ECU is broken, there is nothing that can be done to open it or to repair it if one were to pry it open.

Next, allow me to say, a flashing malfunction light is simply trying to tell you the ECU has discovered one or more of the engine sensors outside the ECU is either faulty or not connected properly. A winking check engine light does not indicate a malfunctioning ECU.
If the Check Engine light is winking there is a simple method of finding out what the problem is and this method only requires grounding a single unconnected wire from the harness, located near (not connected to) the ECU.

By the way, a winking Check Engine light will not keep the engine from running. The motorcycle will run in a Fail Safe mode while the light blinks.
If the Check Engine light stays on continuously, the engine will not run.

That said, if you did connect the ECU directly to the battery with a wire from the 12 volt terminal of the battery, you may have indeed fried the processor. I don't know why anyone would do this but anything is possible.

The most likely problem at the moment is one (or more) of the fuses blew, causing the problem. There are at least 3 fuses. Remove each one and replace it with a new one.

There are 2 relays and 1 turn signal unit. The relays have 5 metal terminals on the bottom of them. It is unlikely that these are at fault but you should verify that each one of them is fully plugged in by removing them and then re-installing them.

If these actions do not bring the ECU back to life, the only recourse I can think of is to take the motorcycle to the dealer and have his best mechanic find the problem.

If the mechanic verifies that the ECU is indeed dead, then, and only then, check to see if a crashed fuel injected Royal Enfield is available so that you can buy the ECU that is still in it.
If wrecked Royal Enfield's are not available, be prepared for paying a large sum of money for a new unit.
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Old 16th July 2014, 06:15   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post
If wrecked Royal Enfield's are not available, be prepared for paying a large sum of money for a new unit.
And buy the Race Dynamics ECU!
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Old 16th July 2014, 11:59   #4
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Default re: Royal Enfield: I Killed the ECU

You shouldn't have messed with the ECU electroguy by seeing just warning light. Even if the ECU was damaged, you could have gotten it replaced under warranty (assuming your RE 500 is still <1 yr / <10000 in ODO). I hope you haven't fried the electronics.

PS: I wouldn't try opening/breaking in to the ECU.

Last edited by soorejmohan : 16th July 2014 at 12:03.
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Old 16th July 2014, 13:43   #5
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Default re: Royal Enfield: I Killed the ECU

Quote:
Next, allow me to say, a flashing malfunction light is simply trying to tell you the ECU has discovered one or more of the engine sensors outside the ECU is either faulty or not connected properly. A winking check engine light does not indicate a malfunctioning ECU.
Quote:
You shouldn't have messed with the ECU electroguy by seeing just warning light. Even if the ECU was damaged, you could have gotten it replaced under warranty (assuming your RE 500 is still <1 yr / <10000 in ODO). I hope you haven't fried the electronics.
I know, seeing the warning light glow continuously, I was checking the wiring to the sensors. During this testing, the wires accidentally touched as I had removed the taping. The ECU was perfectly fine before this happened.


Quote:
If the Check Engine light is winking there is a simple method of finding out what the problem is and this method only requires grounding a single unconnected wire from the harness, located near (not connected to) the ECU.
Yes I have seen this in the user's manual, but how do I proceed? Suppose I ground this wire. Now what? How would it tell me what's wrong?

Quote:
By the way, a winking Check Engine light will not keep the engine from running. The motorcycle will run in a Fail Safe mode while the light blinks.
If the Check Engine light stays on continuously, the engine will not run.
It wasn't blinking, it remained continuously on when it came on for second time.

Quote:
The most likely problem at the moment is one (or more) of the fuses blew, causing the problem. There are at least 3 fuses. Remove each one and replace it with a new one.

There are 2 relays and 1 turn signal unit. The relays have 5 metal terminals on the bottom of them. It is unlikely that these are at fault but you should verify that each one of them is fully plugged in by removing them and then re-installing them.
As I said, there were no fuses, relays or turn signal unit in the circuit. Even the factory harness was removed, I wired it using separate wires, and made the bare minimum circuit just to start the engine.

Quote:
If these actions do not bring the ECU back to life, the only recourse I can think of is to take the motorcycle to the dealer and have his best mechanic find the problem.
I don't have a motorcycle, I bought only the engine from RE.

Also, I'm not doing this for the first time, I had this wiring work many times before and got the engine running perfectly.
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Old 16th July 2014, 15:51   #6
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Default re: Royal Enfield: I Killed the ECU

As more or less suggested by the other members, I would restore all the electrics, fuses etc. Make sure you understand why that shortening happened and restore it properly. Once everything is ok, try starting your bike and see what happens.

It's not a given that you would have fried the ECU. I'm not familiar with the RE ECU, but ECU's have a few (overvoltage) protections built in.

So, who knows, you might be lucky!

Jeroen
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Old 16th July 2014, 22:07   #7
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Default re: Royal Enfield: I Killed the ECU

You could take the Ecu to RE dealer, tell him the bike is off service & ask to test the ecu. They may swap it to a bike to see if its functioning ok. I don't know if RE service has test rigs for Ecu. If you have a friend's bike with similar engine, do the swap test yourself.

Edit: could you pl share how much was the new engine for ?
i had a dealer quote for 78K a couple of months back.

cheers..,

Last edited by Rennjit : 16th July 2014 at 22:13.
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Old 16th July 2014, 23:41   #8
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Default re: Royal Enfield: I Killed the ECU

Quote:
Originally Posted by electroguy View Post
I don't have a motorcycle, I bought only the engine from RE.
Need to bump up this statement, probably.
Would really like to know what you're working on there

Funny seeing this the same day my TB500 is having some serious electrical issues of its own.
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Old 16th July 2014, 23:55   #9
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Default re: Royal Enfield: I Killed the ECU

Quote:
Originally Posted by electroguy View Post
...is there any way to bring it back to life? Can it be opened anyways? It looks well sealed.
Don't know about anyone at your location(s), but I know this guy in Delhi (The ECM & Electronics Guy - Rajender (Khan Market, New Delhi)) who does bring back fried ECUs to life.

As others said, first check to be sure it in't something else like fuses, and that the ECU itself needs to be looked at.
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Old 17th July 2014, 01:15   #10
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Default re: Royal Enfield: I Killed the ECU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
It's not a given that you would have fried the ECU. I'm not familiar with the RE ECU, but ECU's have a few (overvoltage) protections built in.

Jeroen
That's why I want to open the ECU!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rennjit View Post

Edit: could you pl share how much was the new engine for ?
i had a dealer quote for 78K a couple of months back.

cheers..,
I don't know the exact price, but I'll ask my fellows and PM you, and once I learn how to send a private message

Quote:
Originally Posted by samarth.bhatia View Post
Need to bump up this statement, probably.
Would really like to know what you're working on there
okay, I am a member of my collegiate club, and we participate in the Formula SAE event.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_SAE

We got this engine last year for our car, and right now we are putting this up on Dyno for its testing and to learn to use the dyno.
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Old 17th July 2014, 03:34   #11
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Default re: Royal Enfield: I Killed the ECU

Electroguy

On the wiring harness, very near the ECU there is a single wire which is normally not connected to anything. I don't recall the color but it may be purple or green or perhaps both.

When the system is installed into a motorcycle, the normal test procedure consists of grounding this wire to a bare area on the engine or to the negative terminal of the battery. Then, the ignition switch is turned on.

If there are any fault codes stored in the ECU, the MIL light will begin to flash.
If several codes are stored, the MIL will flash a series of dots and dashed and then proceed to flash another series of dots and dashes. It will continue to flash additional dots and dashes until it has gone thru all of the stored faults. Once it has completed this communication with you, it will go back to the first series of dots and dashes and then repeat all of the rest of the fault codes.
The fault codes cannot be erased so the entire history of the motorcycle will be shown.
The first code shown is the latest fault.

Once the series of dots and dashes are shown and (hopefully) written down by the viewer, he can refer to the following table to determine where the fault is.
MIL BLINK CONTENT
Engine will start but not perform to its potential. MIL will glow continuous
LONG 0 SHORT 6 Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) circuit malfunctioning
LONG 0 SHORT 9 Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) circuit malfunctioning
LONG 1 SHORT 1 Engine oil Temperature (TE) circuit malfunctioning
LONG 1 SHORT 7 O2 Sensor circuit malfunctioning
LONG 4 SHORT 5 O2 Sensor heater circuit malfunctioning

Engine will NOT Start but will crank. MIL will glow continuous
LONG 1 SHORT 5 Rollover Sensor circuit malfunctioning
LONG 3 SHORT 3 Injector circuit malfunctioning
LONG 3 SHORT 7 Ignition Coil circuit malfunctioning
LONG 4 SHORT 1 Fuel Pump circuit malfunctioning
LONG 6 SHORT 6 Crankshaft position circuit malfunctioning

NOTE: These codes are for the USA models. They should be the same for the Indian model except the O2 sensor code will not be shown.

You should notice that even if the MIL is glowing continuously with the ignition switch turned on, when the test wire is grounded, the MIL will no longer continue to glow. It will start flashing out each fault code.

In your case, if the MIL is not glowing at all when the power is turned on, check the light bulb. It may have blown out.
If the bulb is good, your only recourse is to trace the wiring from the battery to the ECU to determine if 12 volts is being supplied to it.
If 12 volts (positive) is being supplied to TERMINAL #1, and TERMINAL # 8, 35 and 38 are grounded to the negative side of the battery the ECU should work.

Getting back to your engine/harness/ECU. If you have the full wiring harness it will have fuse connectors built into it.
If it had fuse connections and you or someone else failed to wire these connections into a proper fuse holder, you made a serious error. Sorry.

Good luck.
Jim

Last edited by ArizonaJim : 17th July 2014 at 03:37.
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Old 17th July 2014, 13:21   #12
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Default re: Royal Enfield: I Killed the ECU

Quote:
Originally Posted by electroguy View Post
We got this engine last year for our car, and right now we are putting this up on Dyno for its testing and to learn to use the dyno.
Your college has a Dyno? What kind is this? My impression of a Dyno is something you ride your bike on? Since you have only the engine, what is this Dyno?

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Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post
Good luck.
Jim
You Sir, bring so much knowledge to this forum

All of us are fortunate that you ended up buying an Enfield, subsequently joining this forum !!!
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Old 17th July 2014, 14:00   #13
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Default re: Royal Enfield: I Killed the ECU

Guess the thread title should be edited; I killed my bike's ECU.

Should have played safe when working on projects like these and wondering why one would check wires when machine was powered on.

And, would the ECU be so costly if RD' is only 20k?

Good luck with the project.
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Old 17th July 2014, 16:37   #14
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Default re: Royal Enfield: I Killed the ECU

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Originally Posted by john doe View Post
Your college has a Dyno? What kind is this? My impression of a Dyno is something you ride your bike on? Since you have only the engine, what is this Dyno?
I think he means an Engine dyno.

I remember using the same for engine torque and power measurements back in college.

If my memory serves me correct, the one in my college was a brake dyno.

Last edited by batterylow : 17th July 2014 at 16:43. Reason: Adding info
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Old 17th July 2014, 18:37   #15
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Default re: Royal Enfield: I Killed the ECU

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Originally Posted by john doe View Post
Your college has a Dyno? What kind is this? My impression of a Dyno is something you ride your bike on? Since you have only the engine, what is this Dyno?
Quote:
Originally Posted by batterylow View Post
I think he means an Engine dyno.

I remember using the same for engine torque and power measurements back in college.

If my memory serves me correct, the one in my college was a brake dyno.
Yes, We have a lab called Engine Research Lab. We have many dyno units there and all of them are engine dynos (The one you couple your engine to measure power and torque).

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
Should have played safe when working on projects like these and wondering why one would check wires when machine was powered on.
The machine wasn't on, I removed the battery before checking, and removed the tape on wires. Then I powered up the whole thing, and then the accident took place.

Update: Okay, So I wired up the ECU again today, and it got hot within 5 minutes. Concluding it was dead, I ripped it apart using a band saw. The circuit was embedded in a black rubber like material. Had a hard time removing that. Still it is not that clean. Will post the pics soon.

I have found another RE classic 500 ECU in the garage. It is from last year and people say that it's bad. On attaching this one, the malfunction light glows continuously, and on grounding the diagnostic pin and then turning on the ignition, the light remains on continuously. Checked for spark in the HV coil, there was none, and injector was not actuating while cranking. Still working on this with a hope to get this one working, as at least the MI light is glowing!
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