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Old 20th December 2014, 16:29   #91
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Originally Posted by neil.jericho View Post
[b]The amazon experience is 99% gone which is a big relief. Overall good, quick service though they should've identified the source of the rain forest sound at the previous service itself and fixed the problem..
During my last week B'luru trip the front brake noise had disappeared, but after the 4th service done on last Wednesday it has reappeared .
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Old 20th December 2014, 17:14   #92
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I have this brake noise annoyance with my bike(ktm duke) . Are disc brakes in general prone to this squealing noise(my first bike with disc brakes ) or the noise indicates a less than acceptable setup ? In my case the noise happens when lightly applying pressure - mostly when coasting to a stop and the squeal is loud enough to turn heads . And since last week to annoy me even more , the brakes are now squealing(inconsistent) without any pressure and if my observation is correct , almost always when the bike is leaned in during a turn . Or I think it is the brakes that are squealing , just swaying the bike side by side or turning the handle without moving forward results in the noise too . Will let it be SVC's headache .
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Old 21st December 2014, 00:00   #93
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neil.jericho:

There is no "adjustment" that can be made to a disk brake unless it is to bleed the hydraulic system (which has nothing to do with amazon forest insect noises) or sanding the disks or pads.
The disk brake systems are self adjusting.

While on the subject of disk brakes, allow me to go on a bit.

When everything is alright, the pads on disk brakes usually just clear the disk by a hair or less. Because of their closeness to the moving disk they occasionally rub.
The disk brake pads have a flat spring that rests against them applying a light pressure and this spring is supposed to dampen or eliminate the small squeal-like noises from the rubbing.
Another thing that can cause the brake pads to lightly rub the disk is a lack of lubricant in the areas that require it.
Before you grab your can of oil and start lubricating your brake, STOP right now.
Under no circumstances should you apply any lubricant of any kind to your brake pads, the disk or anything else in the area unless you are fully trained on proper disk brake repair.
Those of you who are trained already know this but for those that are curious, there is a very special kind of grease that is applied ONLY to the pad retaining pins and the pins or surfaces that take the thrust of the moving caliper. Even then, the coating of grease is only enough to allow the moving parts to slide. Large amounts of grease is never applied in these areas.

This squeal may also happen when very light braking pressure is applied but here again, the spring pressure is supposed to eliminate it or at least dampen it to a tolerable level.

Under normal usage, the surface of the pad is worn off by the rotating disk but if very light braking pressure is used or long distances are ridden without using the disk brake, the surface of the pads can become polished or glazed.

Glazed pads tend to skid on the rotating disk rather than grabbing it. This skidding will cause the disk to vibrate producing the sound. Glazed brake pads also do a very poor job of stopping the motorcycle.

Very likely "the fix" that was done to arulpeem's motorcycle was the mechanic removed the brake pads and sanded their braking surface with some rough sandpaper.
This removes the glazing so the pads will once again stop the bike silently.
Further riding and lightly using the front brake has re-polished the pads surfaces so the old "sound" came back.

I mentioned earlier, "sanding the disk".
This is not a really good fix but it does work.
The sanding is done with very rough sandpaper, across the face of the disk on both sides in a "towards the axle/away from the axle" direction and both sides of the disk will require the treatment. The idea with sanding is not to smooth the surfaces of the disk. It is to roughen them up.

The roughened disk faces will scrub off the glazing on the brake pad faces allowing them to grab the disk rather than skidding across it and making the disk squeal.
The fix is temporary and soon the roughened disk will return to its smooth self, even if the brakes are used as they should be. Following the return of the disk to its normal condition the pads will again re-glaze if the same braking style is used.

The solution to this glazing/polishing problem is to use the disk brakes the way they were designed to be used.
Quit babying them with gentle rolling stops.

I'm not suggesting that you wait until the last second to jam on the brakes.
I am suggesting that you change your braking style so there is a very noticeable deceleration every time your stopping.
Your disk brakes were designed to rapidly stop your motorcycle. They are far better than the old drum brakes at doing this but they do have a few idiosyncrasies. They don't like to be babied.

Changing your braking technique will allow the brake pads to wear (this is good). The wear will keep a fresh, slightly rough surface on the pads which will allow them to grip the rotating disk without making noise.

Ride safe.

Last edited by ArizonaJim : 21st December 2014 at 00:25.
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Old 22nd December 2014, 00:04   #94
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Default Poor experience at KTM, BTM

I had forgotten to mention my recent experience with the KTM showroom in BTM Layout. After hearing positive feedback on the RC390 (Look Ma, no broken rims!), I had stopped by their showroom to ask for a test ride and at first they agreed saying there would be a 10 minute delay. I agreed to wait but they then asked me to come a couple of days later since the service lane in front of the showroom was recently tarred. I didnt put two and two together so I asked them to get the bike onto the main road instead and hand over the bike to me for a short test ride around the block. That was when I was told that the test ride for the RC390 consisted of going up and down a 300 metre side road only and this is a fallout of the nasty spill that happened during a test ride at the Mekhri Circle showroom.


I had visited the showroom in Marthahalli when the RC390 had just come out and had given my contact details and asked them to let me know when the bike was being given for test rides. That was a few months ago and they never bothered to call me. And now this. Thoroughly annoyed, I left the showroom after giving them a piece of my mind on common sense and taking potential customers for granted. In comparison, the Suzuki showroom with the under appreciated Inazuma gave me a nice long test ride which allowed me to get a proper experience of the bike.


Fellow bikers have explained that the other KTM / Probiking showrooms have had test riders experience similar spills which led to costly repairs for the showroom folks. My point is this is the cost of doing business. A knee jerk reaction to an accident shows how shortsighted the showroom folks are. To me, this arrogance has come out of not having strong competition as the KTM bikes are virtually selling themselves. One can only wonder what their sales figures would be if only the showroom folks were as interested in selling the bike as their potential customers were interested in buying it.


P.S - While walking to the showroom I noticed a young gentleman push one of the test ride Dukes to the limit and brake sharply before he reached the dead end. From my vantage point, I was sure he was going to crash but fortunately he managed to avoid a trip to the hospital. If the showroom folks think that a 300 meter test track is going to ensure test rides are going to happen at slow speeds then they are clearly mistaken.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arulpeem View Post
During my last week B'luru trip the front brake noise had disappeared, but after the 4th service done on last Wednesday it has reappeared .
They added the squeaking noise from the rear disc after the recent service for my bike so at least RE is consistent in adding these tiny niggles irrespective of location!

BTW is the noise from the front brake present throughout or only when you use the brake?

Quote:
Originally Posted by basuroy View Post
I have this brake noise annoyance with my bike(ktm duke) . Are disc brakes in general prone to this squealing noise(my first bike with disc brakes ) or the noise indicates a less than acceptable setup ? In my case the noise happens when lightly applying pressure - mostly when coasting to a stop and the squeal is loud enough to turn heads . And since last week to annoy me even more , the brakes are now squealing(inconsistent) without any pressure and if my observation is correct , almost always when the bike is leaned in during a turn .
Honestly I cant recall any issues with the disc brake setup on my original Pulsar 150 or the R15 which I owned for 5+ years. The brakes making noise without any pressure will lead to premature wear and tear so the sooner you make it the SVC's problem to resolve, the better it is for you.

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Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post
neil.jericho:

There is no "adjustment" that can be made to a disk brake unless it is to bleed the hydraulic system (which has nothing to do with amazon forest insect noises) or sanding the disks or pads.
The disk brake systems are self adjusting.
Thanks for yet another detailed and informative post ArizonaJim, you really are a treasure trove of information for guys like me who have so much to learn. As I understand it, the insect noise is being caused by constant friction between disc brake and the pads, so removing the pads and then putting it all back together while ensuring the sufficient gap is maintained should remove the rainforest experience while not using the brakes, right?


I am OK with the sound from the brakes as long as it only comes while I am using the brakes. I was annoyed that the noise was coming throughout which meant constant wear and tear and the nearing of a front disc and brake pad replacement.


I should mention that when the SA checked the front disc (this involved having another SA sit on the rear seat while it was on the centre stand and then rotating the front wheel by hand) he found that the edge of the disc was rubbing against the pads and causing the insect noise. Since he said it would take a lot of time, I was under the assumption that they would remove the brake pads and put it back together again while checking that the pads didnt rub against the brake and then probably bleed the front brakes to be on the safer side. Hence I didnt bother checking what they were actually doing though they ended up taking less than 15 minutes of actual work time to examine and fix both front and back.


An unexpected consequence of all this is that anytime I watch a documentary on Animal Planet or Nat Geo on the rain forests and hear that background noise, I am reiminded of the constant niggle and get irritated with Royal Enfield! Maybe I should just stick to watching other channels instead.
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Old 22nd December 2014, 15:17   #95
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Originally Posted by neil.jericho View Post
There was a very eye catching (and equally illegal) military green Cochin registered Classic 500.

To borrow a quote from the NWO - Just too sweet[/center][/b]
Before launch of classic, RE had around 10 bikes with this color, i think one of them was even displayed in Auto Expo as well.
I hope they can come up with a shade above of this color to make it legal.

Regards,
Shubhendra Singh
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Old 22nd December 2014, 16:30   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post
neil.jericho:
Very likely "the fix" that was done to arulpeem's motorcycle was the mechanic removed the brake pads and sanded their braking surface with some rough sandpaper.
Changing your braking technique will allow the brake pads to wear (this is good). The wear will keep a fresh, slightly rough surface on the pads which will allow them to grip the rotating disk without making noise.

Ride safe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil.jericho View Post

BTW is the noise from the front brake present throughout or only when you use the brake?
I was annoyed that the noise was coming throughout which meant constant wear and tear and the nearing of a front disc and brake pad replacement.
Thanks ArizonaJim for the detailed explanation. In my case the noise is not squeaky or squealing. It is like what the Cicada insect makes.
Neil: It comes even when not braking and increases when braking. The noise starts only after I ride for a short while. More than once during long rides I have stopped the bike using only the rear brake and checked the front disc and it was not even warm. It was almost at the same temperature as the wheel rim. So there is no rubbing of the disc and the calliper. I didn't have the noise today morning when I was riding to office where as on Friday it was there. . So I am not sure what causes the noise. Neil: Don't stop watching nature related channels because of Enfield.
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Old 23rd December 2014, 05:41   #97
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arulpeem:
It may be a good idea for you to either do this yourself or to take your motorcycle to a good mechanic.

Remove the front wheel from the motorcycle and insert one of your fingers into one of the ball bearings. (There is one on each side of the wheel.)

Applying a light inward pressure, rotate the inner race of the bearing back and forth. By re-positioning your finger, continue to work your way around the inner race of the bearing while you continue to rotate the bearing back and forth. Keep on applying the inward pressure while you do this.
Then, repeat this, applying a slight outward pull on the bearing while you work your way around it.
It is also worthwhile to do this back and forth rotation test while applying some pressure outward towards the tyre.

Move to the opposite side of the wheel and repeat this on the other ball bearing.

What your finger should feel is the inner race of the bearing moving with glass smooth precision.

If you detect any hesitation or roughness at all in any of the tests, the bearing is defective and requires replacement.

Although this rarely happens, even with a quality standard of 99.8 percent, when a company assembles over 200,000 motorcycles a year with each motorcycle requiring 4 of these bearings, 400 questionable bearings can slip thru and be delivered each year.

If a bearing is defective and your motorcycle is relatively new, it should be covered by your warranty.

Even if it is not covered, wheel bearings are not very expensive and they are easy to replace so the labor costs should be low.

Good luck.
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Old 23rd December 2014, 12:58   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubhendra View Post
Before launch of classic, RE had around 10 bikes with this color, i think one of them was even displayed in Auto Expo as well.
I hope they can come up with a shade above of this color to make it legal.

Regards,
Shubhendra Singh
The Bullet 500 comes in this lovely dark shade though I have hardly seen any of them on our roads. If anyone from Royal Enfield is reading this, I am officially adding this to my "colours that RE needs to bring out the Continental GT in" list. Come on RE, you have the paints and want to improve sales of the Continental GT!

RE Continental GT: Captain signing in!-royalenfieldbullet500india.jpg


Quote:
Originally Posted by arulpeem View Post
Thanks ArizonaJim for the detailed explanation. In my case the noise is not squeaky or squealing. It is like what the Cicada insect makes.
Neil: It comes even when not braking and increases when braking. The noise starts only after I ride for a short while. More than once during long rides I have stopped the bike using only the rear brake and checked the front disc and it was not even warm. It was almost at the same temperature as the wheel rim. So there is no rubbing of the disc and the calliper. I didn't have the noise today morning when I was riding to office where as on Friday it was there. . So I am not sure what causes the noise. Neil: Don't stop watching nature related channels because of Enfield.
The symptoms are similar to what I was experiencing except that the sound was there throughout - while putting it on centre stand and rotating the front wheel as well as while riding. Since the sound used to increase while braking I was under the assumption that it was the front brake. After the last visit to the SVC, the sound has disappeared.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post
arulpeem:
What your finger should feel is the inner race of the bearing moving with glass smooth precision.

If you detect any hesitation or roughness at all in any of the tests, the bearing is defective and requires replacement.

Although this rarely happens, even with a quality standard of 99.8 percent, when a company assembles over 200,000 motorcycles a year with each motorcycle requiring 4 of these bearings, 400 questionable bearings can slip thru and be delivered each year.
Great post again ArizonaJim. If the sound does reappear on my bike I will check the bearings.

WRT your earlier post on not going easy on the brakes, riding in urban Indian conditions unfailingly give the brakes a healthy working out every single day. Crazy bus drivers, bikers with helmets on their elbows, people taking calls while driving, thick skinned pedestrians crossing the road through moving traffic and so on all combine to ensure that you are always on high alert.


In many ways, I am grateful that the market has matured enough to accept disc brakes on bikes at the lower end of the spectrum, it wasnt very long ago that most bikers stayed away from bikes with disc brakes as the popular Indian perception was that they were too sharp and hence caused accidents for bikers who were used to decades of ineffective drum brakes.
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Old 24th December 2014, 14:22   #99
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While recently researching on the Continental GT I came across this rather lovely picture by USA Today. Now just throw in a Stone Black and Bullet 500 Green to complete a delectable quartet. Come on Royal Enfield!

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Needs more colours!

Last edited by neil.jericho : 24th December 2014 at 14:23.
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Old 25th December 2014, 08:22   #100
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Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post
arulpeem:
It may be a good idea for you to either do this yourself or to take your motorcycle to a good mechanic.

Good luck.
Hi ArizonaJim,Thanks a lot for the input. I plan to do this myself during the next weekend. This weekend I am planning on a trip to Trichy or Pondicherry. This should not take more than an 15 or 20 minutes with the help of my son. During the last three day of riding the noise didn't come at all.
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Old 5th January 2015, 23:40   #101
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Default Hot new pictures!

Ok so I know I havent been updating this thread with sufficient pictures of the Captain but what I can do instead is share pictures of the Continental GT ...... in it's glorious shade of red. Before you think I am off my rockers and have bought another two wheeler, I must confess that I borrowed this red bike, courtesy a highly placed friend in Royal Enfield, for my wedding photo shoot and clicked the following pictures while trying to get the angles right before the big day.


So maybe a Continental GT (that too a single seater) doesnt figure too high on a woman's list of wedding photo ideas but my wife did know what she was signing up for when she married me. Most women would've thrown the kitchen sink if one suggested a bike makes its way into the wedding photos so I must say Im one lucky bloke!


RE Continental GT: Captain signing in!-pc295431-large.jpg


RE Continental GT: Captain signing in!-pc295435-large.jpg

RE Continental GT: Captain signing in!-pc295456-large.jpg

RE Continental GT: Captain signing in!-pc295501-large.jpg

Huge thanks to my friend who shall remain unnamed and the friendly folks at St Mary's Motors who arranged for the bike.
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Old 6th January 2015, 10:55   #102
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I must say Im one lucky bloke!
You indeed is a lucky bloke. Nice Pictures Neil

Best Regards & Ride Safe

Ram
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Old 11th January 2015, 20:00   #103
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Here's a picture from the wedding day that says a thousand words - the single seater Continental GT in its magnificent red colour that provides a stark contrast to the bouquet of lovely pink roses.

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Last week I chanced upon a new Royal Enfield showroom in Cochin at Vytilla junction called Kaizen Motors. It was surprisingly large and the interiors were nicely done up with a good amount of accessories on display. The showroom was not yet officially launched when I had dropped in but there were people walking in and asking about the bikes which bodes well for Royal Enfield. I suspect it will become their flagship store in Cochin. As of now, they do not plan to add after market exhausts during deliveries (should start this week) which currently are a big thing in the Kerala market. I heard a few RE bikes with these exhausts and man are they loud, I wouldnt want to be neighbours with someone who owned one!
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Old 11th January 2015, 20:17   #104
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Congrats on gettin hitched,Neil!All the best!

Yeah even I noticed that new showroom,but I thought it was a brand apparel shop.It was closed when I went by there a couple days ago.Looks pretty darn good.So they do put aftermarket exhausts on new enfields.I was wondering about that cos I was at J.R and Sons,and saw a couple of spankin-new-off-the-shelf enfields there with aftermarket exhausts.Lotta people seem to be buying those short loud ones.Hella loud.

Regards

BOV

Last edited by B O V : 11th January 2015 at 20:20.
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Old 12th January 2015, 10:22   #105
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Hi Neil, Congratulations on your wedding and wish you both happy and memorable rides with your Continental GT.
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