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Old 11th November 2014, 07:50   #1
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Default Hero Karizma ZMR - Fuel pump failed. Rs. 12,000 to replace!

2009 March - Owner of a Pulsar 150 DTSi for 5 years, I wanted a change, a BIG change from the regular Japanese bike and bought a new Bullet, yes the last set of 350 Standard CI.

2009 July - Realized Bullet is not my cup of tea due to niggles. Rode it for 3k kms and 'exchanged' it for a newly launched P220 DTSi.

2011 July - Drove the P220 for 11k kms and sold it off to my cousin due to a back pain which cropped up and forced me to switch to a car for the next 3 years!

2014 March - Coming from Pulsar family, Karizma's always felt 'alien' to me. We hated them for the looks (looking good) and the cult following. But this time I thought I will try out a used bike to 'test' my back first and then indulge. There came a 2011 Karizma R which had clocked 18000kms and was in an average condition.
Pros:
- Suspension is awesome. I don't think anything can ever beat this setup.
- Low and mid end is torquee and fun to ride. Every twist (in any gear) will make you feel she is a cheetah.
Cons
- Mileage I got in Bangalore ITPL route (B2B traffic as you call it) was 23 to 28 kmpl depending on how well I rode. 28 was when I drove below 70 will gears changed at 3000rpm.
- Top end is not entertaining like the P220. Bike is already sluggish once you cross 105.
- Too much vibes past 80.

2014 Nov - All is well with my back so considered buying a new one (Test drove the CBR250, Duke twins, new ZMR, R15, CBR150 and all of those). However, to be very honest after driving the Honda engined charm in ZMA, I seriously did not feel any HUGE worth in investing so much in the above listed bikes. Yes each bike has its pros and cons but end of the day, it boils down to your requirement. I am an office commuter and I dont need a 44 bhp monster like the Duke390. Then came an OLX Ad about a white 2012 "Hero Honda" ZMR, single owner run just 13000kms. She looked like new, scratchless, and at half the price of a Duke 200, I thought it was an investment worth it.
Pros:
- Again, Suspension is awesome.
- Much smoother (getting more closer to CBR250) and lesser vibes than the ZMA.
- Mileage I havent calculated yet but I get a feeling she gives 5-10 more than my ZMA based on the fuel guage.

Cons
Now the TWIST. It is Day 5 and a fine Saturday morning (Nov 8th), I decided to visit the Hero service center to fix the rear view mirrors (I cant live without those). They fixed the mirrors in front of me, all is good. I took the bike, sat on it adjusted the mirrors and cranked the engine ----> OOOPS! Cranked and cranked and cranked she wont start. Already the small service center had given the attention to the 'white' ZMR which was in itself a masterpiece worth admiration. However when it failed to start, the chief supervisor and his deputy came to me and they themselves tried for few mins. They took the bike inside and started inspecting and told me that the petrol was not reaching the engine and it might be a fuel pump issue. But since they were not sure, I told them to check properly and I left to office.

Day 6, got a call from ASC saying they have found the issue. Although they did not explain satisfactorily, they said the fuel pump would have had an air lock and now it is fine. I later recollected that after taking delivery of the bike from the previous owner, I had driven on low fuel for a fair distance. May be the fuel pump got screwed. Anyways it started so who cares.

Day 7 and 8 all ok.

Day 10, Monday morning - My toddler all dressed up to go to his playschool and OOPS, again she won't start. I call up ASC and they say we would have to replace the "Fuel Pump Unit" , and the cost, a WHOPPING 12k ! Oh man thats close to 20% of the bike cost! Ok anyways, happened is happened (or rather screwed is screwed) I told them to order. Then came the shock. They said it will take atleast Jan to get the spare. Due to some strike at Hero there have been thousands of backlogs in the orders it seems. OMG! I panicked. Called up all service centers in Bangalore and Cochin and they all told the same story. Another Bangalore Hero ASC even said they have three ZMR's with same problem awaiting fuel pump for 1.5 months. THIS IS RIDICULOUS.


I searched and searched and searched a lot of this issue and it seems this is not too common but still there are some odd ZMR owners. A ZMR fuel pump mechanic from Cochin (got through OLX) who is now out of India, tells me that changing to Carburetor could be an option.

Guys, I am totally confused on what to do here. Please advice.

Options
1) Wait for the spare (1-2 months) and take a vow to never run the ZMR on low fuel for the rest of my life.
2) Change to carburetor (need to find the right guy in Blr) and be safe but probably loose on mileage. It would be technically back to square one (Since I already have a ZMA).
3) Sell this for crap and buy a new Unicorn CB (You can understand with this line how pathetic I feel)
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Old 11th November 2014, 08:46   #2
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Default re: Hero Karizma ZMR - Fuel pump failed. Rs. 12,000 to replace!

I am not sure if this is the right advise, but do try to wait for the spares, bike in this condition, especially one which didn't sell in good numbers will not get good resale value. You will lose lot of money if you try to sell it! You already have a ZMA, so you could wait for spares to arrive and sell off ZMA instead.
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Old 11th November 2014, 09:17   #3
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Default re: Hero Karizma ZMR - Fuel pump failed. Rs. 12,000 to replace!

Considering the fact that the new Fuel Pump is a whooping 12k (I mean that is whooping for a sure as the fuel pump on my Duke 200 got changed last month and cost me 3350).

My opinion, try getting the carb fixed as it would cost lower. If the bike runs fine on the fixed carb well and good. Ask the service center to get the fuel pump as well which you can always say later that you don't want. This in case the fixed carb starts giving problems later.

In the mean time you can also try looking for a totalled bike from which you can pull the fuel pump at a lower price.
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Old 11th November 2014, 09:54   #4
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Default re: Hero Karizma ZMR - Fuel pump failed. Rs. 12,000 to replace!

You and I have the same history except the fact I bought a ZMA. I too had a p220 but post marriage with wifey as pillion my back and palms used to ache untill one day it became unbearable. Sold of the 220 and bought a 2012 Nov ZMA 6k run on the ODO. One of the reasons why I didnt go for the ZMR is because it's an FI and I wanted a bike that was not much into electronics.
Hero SVC have a nasty reputation of not storing critical components though a fuel pump is something that do not fail so easily
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Old 11th November 2014, 10:33   #5
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Default re: Hero Karizma ZMR - Fuel pump failed. Rs. 12,000 to replace!

First of all I am not sure if the diagnosis is correct. IMO fuel pump should not get damaged until you are stranded on the road with a dry tank. If I were you I would go to a reliable mechanic outside and get it checked.

I want to ask a few questions here.

1. When you switch on the ignition, can you hear the fuel pump priming sound? On what basis have they deduced that the pump has failed?

2. Also since you said they mentioned "Air Lock", try cranking with the fuel cap open. Does it start?

3. Since they mentioned the fuel does not reach the engine, have you checked and cleaned the fuel lines from the tank to the pump? I don't know if the ZMR has a fuel filter. If it does you might want to check that too.

After all these are checked, if it can be confirmed that it is indeed a fuel pump issue and you decide to get it changed to a carb, then I can give a personal recommendation on the mechanic to approach in Bangalore, if you require.

Cheers
Suhas
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Old 11th November 2014, 11:46   #6
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Default re: Hero Karizma ZMR - Fuel pump failed. Rs. 12,000 to replace!

@sam_sant2005,
Few pointers from my end:

1. Unlike most bikes, fuel pump is outside the tank in ZMR. It's above the gear shift lever. (black cylinder).
2. It goes kaput only if the bike is devoid of all petrol. Zilch; that is!
3. Switch on your bike early morning, 5 AM types. Complete silence. Don't start it, just switch the ignition on and simultaneously keep your hand on the pump. You'll hear a slight whooosh sound and the pumping action on the FI unit. If both of these are happening, your pump's fine!
4. The pump can be serviced. It has carbon brushes inside which go bust after clocking a lot of kms. Though you've done quite less, but still it cannot be ruled out.
5. Have you checked the starter relay and the fuses? Does the bike crank at all?
6. How old is the spark plug?
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Old 11th November 2014, 13:17   #7
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Default re: Hero Karizma ZMR - Fuel pump failed. Rs. 12,000 to replace!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Added_flavor View Post
First of all I am not sure if the diagnosis is correct. IMO fuel pump should not get damaged until you are stranded on the road with a dry tank. If I were you I would go to a reliable mechanic outside and get it checked.
I brought a local mechanic to check the issue. (He was looking after minor niggles in my ZMA). He says its absurd to believe that low fuel damages the fuel pump. So probably you are right. How can it go away just like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Added_flavor View Post
1. When you switch on the ignition, can you hear the fuel pump priming sound? On what basis have they deduced that the pump has failed?
I can understand what you are referring to. I did note that sound when I took the bike. However, that hissing sound of Fuel pump is MISSING now. Bike was in service center for two days last week and they also confirmed it is not working. However on the second day, I donno what they did, it started working again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Added_flavor View Post
2. Also since you said they mentioned "Air Lock", try cranking with the fuel cap open. Does it start?
Yes this was tried the first time it failed to start.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Added_flavor View Post
3. Since they mentioned the fuel does not reach the engine, have you checked and cleaned the fuel lines from the tank to the pump? I don't know if the ZMR has a fuel filter. If it does you might want to check that too.
Good point but these were all checked including replacement of Spark plug.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Added_flavor View Post
After all these are checked, if it can be confirmed that it is indeed a fuel pump issue and you decide to get it changed to a carb, then I can give a personal recommendation on the mechanic to approach in Bangalore, if you require.
Cheers
Suhas
Could you please PM me his contact details. Better to be prepared for any eventuality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Divya Sharan View Post
@sam_sant2005,
1. Unlike most bikes, fuel pump is outside the tank in ZMR. It's above the gear shift lever. (black cylinder).
2. It goes kaput only if the bike is devoid of all petrol. Zilch; that is!
3. Switch on your bike early morning, 5 AM types. Complete silence. Don't start it, just switch the ignition on and simultaneously keep your hand on the pump. You'll hear a slight whooosh sound and the pumping action on the FI unit. If both of these are happening, your pump's fine!
Hissing or whoosh sound is not there. Pump is not responding at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Divya Sharan View Post
4. The pump can be serviced. It has carbon brushes inside which go bust after clocking a lot of kms. Though you've done quite less, but still it cannot be ruled out.
Service center never sounded like they will ever 'repair' a fuel pump. Any other place do you know where I can get this done?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Divya Sharan View Post
5. Have you checked the starter relay and the fuses? Does the bike crank at all?
6. How old is the spark plug?
Yes all electricals were checked in service center (and by a local mechanic today morning). Spark plug was also changed last week. Bike does crank, it just doesn't come alive.


Finally, only thing which crosses my mind is what the service center mechanic said - if this issue comes again poke the top of the fuel pump with a screw driver. He did demonstrate that successfully when I went there for a service related query (when the bike failed to start).
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Old 11th November 2014, 14:06   #8
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Default re: Hero Karizma ZMR - Fuel pump failed. Rs. 12,000 to replace!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_sant2005 View Post
Finally, only thing which crosses my mind is what the service center mechanic said - if this issue comes again poke the top of the fuel pump with a screw driver. He did demonstrate that successfully when I went there for a service related query (when the bike failed to start).
Poke? What happened after that? I am curious now!

PM sent

Last edited by Added_flavor : 11th November 2014 at 14:09.
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Old 11th November 2014, 14:11   #9
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Default re: Hero Karizma ZMR - Fuel pump failed. Rs. 12,000 to replace!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_sant2005 View Post
Service center never sounded like they will ever 'repair' a fuel pump. Any other place do you know where I can get this done?

I did it as a DIY. However, a friend in Kolkata got it done at MASS with some connections.
It's a hollow container with carbon brushes inside. Take them out and visit any hardware shop to get similar brushes. If the issue was indeed the brushes wearing out, you'd have solved the problem in 100 rupees. But, this is the DIY way and requires patience.


Yes all electricals were checked in service center (and by a local mechanic today morning). Spark plug was also changed last week. Bike does crank, it just doesn't come alive.


A weird thought comes to mind - Is your bank angle sensor okay (and in place)? Have it checked. It's near the headlamp above the right horn. (out of the dual horns)


Finally, only thing which crosses my mind is what the service center mechanic said - if this issue comes again poke the top of the fuel pump with a screw driver. He did demonstrate that successfully when I went there for a service related query (when the bike failed to start).

Yes, that's true for pumps which cannot be repaired at all! When it doesn't have any juice left. Poking may help only a few times and eventually even that'd be useless.
I hope that's not the case with you!
Replies inline in bold.

P.S - Do NOT go for carb conversion. You'd be looking at a lot of problems later in that case! You already have a ZMA right?

Last edited by Divya Sharan : 11th November 2014 at 14:14. Reason: Spell check.
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Old 11th November 2014, 16:12   #10
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Default re: Hero Karizma ZMR - Fuel pump failed. Rs. 12,000 to replace!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_sant2005 View Post
Options
3) Sell this for crap and buy a new Unicorn CB (You can understand with this line how pathetic I feel)
Others have already helped you out technically. I would like to point out on this Option 3 of yours. Please take an extensive test ride before you decide to go this route. The suspension of the Unicorn is not as plush as the Hero's and you might end up with sore backs after the ride in the horrible roads we have here!!
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Old 11th November 2014, 21:27   #11
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Default re: Hero Karizma ZMR - Fuel pump failed. Rs. 12,000 to replace!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Divya Sharan View Post
I did it as a DIY. However, a friend in Kolkata got it done at MASS with some connections.
It's a hollow container with carbon brushes inside. Take them out and visit any hardware shop to get similar brushes. If the issue was indeed the brushes wearing out, you'd have solved the problem in 100 rupees. But, this is the DIY way and requires patience.
I think you are my guy. I am a person of DIY. Could you please explain a little further on how I can remove the pump or do some troubleshooting myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Divya Sharan View Post
A weird thought comes to mind - Is your bank angle sensor okay (and in place)? Have it checked. It's near the headlamp above the right horn. (out of the dual horns)
Ok so even if I find this one, how do I know whether it is faulty?

Last edited by sam_sant2005 : 11th November 2014 at 21:29.
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Old 11th November 2014, 22:13   #12
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Default re: Hero Karizma ZMR - Fuel pump failed. Rs. 12,000 to replace!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_sant2005 View Post
I think you are my guy. I am a person of DIY. Could you please explain a little further on how I can remove the pump or do some troubleshooting myself.


Ok so even if I find this one, how do I know whether it is faulty?
2 things:
1. Get the injectors cleaned.
2. Take a small screw driver used to open casettes and straighten out the lip of the pump outer casing. Be gentle with it. You'll see carbon brushes immersed in petrol. You'll see them having sort of decayed. Similar to mixer grinders. If so, 100 rupees can save you. Ensure you get similar brushes.
Bank angle sensor can be checked at the SVC. They can put a spare on yours and check.

Removing the pump requires unmounting the tank and fairing.

Last edited by Divya Sharan : 11th November 2014 at 22:15.
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Old 12th November 2014, 07:43   #13
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Default re: Hero Karizma ZMR - Fuel pump failed. Rs. 12,000 to replace!

Sorry, have not read other posts by fellow BHPians, but I hope, a good mechanic (who specializes) in fuel injection can maybe repair it.

You need a good mechanic with keen eyes. My erstwhile R15's steering cone set was being changed and one part was not available. The mechanic got it from the Escorts Rajdoot 175 & it fitted like a T.

Remember one thing, there always will be spares scarcity with Hero as far as Karizma (in various iterations) go. Have faced it from 2007-2009.
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Old 12th November 2014, 12:15   #14
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Default re: Hero Karizma ZMR - Fuel pump failed. Rs. 12,000 to replace!

Thanks @all for your help and comments.

@Divya Sharan
Sounds a bit difficult to me since removing the fairing itself is risky (scared of breaking some clamp) and also removing the tank and removing the fuel pump is going to be another uphill task. I tried a little bit today morning (removed 3-4 screws) but later dropped the idea.


So for now, I have to decided to go ahead and order the fuel pump through the Authorized SC.

I spoke to the Hero ASC Manager and asked them what they did to start the bike last week and they said the following :-

"The fuel pump is getting stuck and hence not working. By tapping it at some points makes it to work".


In all possibilities, this looks like a bush worn out issue because I remember helping ceiling fans to spin by moving them with hand However, the challenge I face is 1) How to remove this fuel pump, 2) To get the right person in Bangalore to fix the pump.
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Old 13th November 2014, 10:19   #15
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Default Re: Hero Karizma ZMR - Fuel pump failed. Rs. 12,000 to replace!

Update:

One last time I requested the ASC mechanic to start the bike using his technique. He obliged and came to my house. In a min he started the bike. What he did exactly was he tapped at the top on the fuel pump where there is a electrical connector. He tried to push it down as well.

Any points on this? Would it be a simple loose contact? Or again a sensor issue? Anyone?
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