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Old 3rd February 2015, 14:04   #31
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Default Re: With a 70% sales growth in 2014, Royal Enfield overtakes Harley Davidson

Off topic - GTO, I guess you have not considered PPP (Purchasing Power Parity) while mentioning the per captia income. Once PPP is considered, Indian Per capita would be much more, may be around 3 to 4 times as much? Even then, US per capita would be 10 times that of ours.

Of course, the price difference between RE and a Harley is not that high I guess, and in that sense, RE has fared better.

If we again consider the population of 'middle class' and richer groups, it would be comparable to the total population of US.

Though we need to keep in mind that a majority of RE owners will be using it as their primary mode of transport (necessity) vs Harley owners who consider it as 'Luxury'.

In Summary, may be still we can say that RE has potential to grow, must sell much higher numbers?


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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I think this is a pretty interesting development.

Yes, Royal Enfield is much cheaper than Harley. So? If you have to look at it that way, here's another perspective. Royal Enfield sells a majority of its production in India, as Harley does in the USA.

Why don't we compare their prices to the per capita income of their respective countries?

India = $1,500
USA = $53,000

The USA market is so strong that Toyota sells more Camrys there than Maruti does Altos in India!





We're talking of manufacturers, not models (BTW, Mercedes does sell more cars than Maruti globally).

When the world's top car makers are listed, they are ranked in order of sales (not according to the price of their cars). And the fact is, Royal Enfield is a bigger motorcycle manufacturer on these charts than Harley Davidson.
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Old 3rd February 2015, 14:13   #32
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Default Re: With a 70% sales growth in 2014, Royal Enfield overtakes Harley Davidson

I agree with GTO. It is no small feat. HD is a global giant, image-wise and to think that our humble RE would beat it! I'm surprised. Both are niche motorcycles and hence, comparison, I feel is justified. And as GTO pointed out, performance is always measured by number of units sold. Why no one protested when GM or Toyota as shown as number one auto maker in the world. These two brands are mass market brands compared to say Ferrari or Lambos, which would probably be near bottom of sales charts. No one said, since a Ferrari costs several times an average Toyota, so let us not compare oranges to apples.
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Old 3rd February 2015, 14:45   #33
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Default Re: With a 70% sales growth in 2014, Royal Enfield overtakes Harley Davidson

Quote:
Originally Posted by pratyush6 View Post
However with the arrival of Triumph and Harleys in India, we might see some competition. We already see quite a few of those in the tier 1 cities.
Actually I have a feeling Enfield sales have increased sharply after the entry of Harley Davidson in India. May be there is a connection? Wannabe Harley owners settling for a Bullet?
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Old 3rd February 2015, 15:23   #34
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Default Re: With a 70% sales growth in 2014, Royal Enfield overtakes Harley Davidson

India
April to September
B9 (>500cc to <=800cc)
RE continental GT - 1781 units, ESP - 1.93 lakhs
HD Street 750 - 1692 units, ESP- 4.28 lakhs

RE drives most of it sales from segment where HD is not present, even in the segment it is present even at double the price HD is selling same units.

Disclaimer- I am talking only about India since I am aware of pricing brand perception and market size here only.

Looking at this HD is clear winner. Let's see where RE stands once Street 500 comes in play.

At a global level, as already stated by shortbread "With annual revenue closing in on $7 BILLION, they are 6-7 times what Eicher are doing (that includes RE, commercial vehicles, tractors et all)"
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Old 3rd February 2015, 16:23   #35
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Default Re: With a 70% sales growth in 2014, Royal Enfield overtakes Harley Davidson

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
Actually I have a feeling Enfield sales have increased sharply after the entry of Harley Davidson in India. May be there is a connection? Wannabe Harley owners settling for a Bullet?
Can never deny that, although it's debatable just how much effect it had on its competitors.

Harley does a fantastic job of brand promotion, events, brotherhood etc. In comparison, Triumph does nothing (heck, they do nothing even after being caught with their pants down on the detuning scandal, but that's ).

Harley's aggressive brand promotion would've pushed the Enfield team a lot more.

Mahindra spends a lot of time & $$$ promoting the offroading culture in India. It's got to have some spillover benefit for the Gypsy, Gurkha etc.

OT but related. Sometimes, your competitors can help you: The Hyundai i20? It's sales only really shot up after the launch of the overpriced Honda Jazz. Suddenly, the i20 with more equipment, 6 airbags etc. at 1.xx lakhs lesser became value for money (before, it was viewed as an expensive hatchback).
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Old 3rd February 2015, 16:41   #36
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Default Re: With a 70% sales growth in 2014, Royal Enfield overtakes Harley Davidson

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I already am (in awe of the Chinese market & their car companies). A post I made earlier to highlight this fact:
Severely

While the size of the Chinese market is impressive the car companies have been putting up a really poor show.

Despite the existence of 100 odd chinese brands their domestic market share is at 20% and falling. That is for every 10 cars sold in China only 2 are chinese.

While the phenomenon is not uncommon the support and protection the local car makers receive from the Government is immense. Even established MNC's cannot own a majority stake in their own companies and have to rely on a chinese partner. Once this rule is taken away then the local car makers stand even more exposed. Lets not forget they are operating in the worlds largest Car market and the fact not a single chinese brand has real global significance is severely disappointing.

SAIC makes a huge loss on their local brands every year (close to $700 mill) and rely on GM and VW joint ventures to keep raking in the money. BYD, what was once one of the most promising chinese brands has lost half its value!!

While the japanese, Korean revival phenomenon is a brilliant case study lets not forget the Chinese car industry is older that Koreas. Many of the established chinese makers started life in the 50s and 60s and had a protected market and foreign technical assistance since the early 80s!!

Their exports are only going to struggle due to Russia's struggling economy, which was the destination for most chinese cars being shipped out.

I don't think the theory that's been doing rounds claiming Chinese brands will take over the world is going to bear fruit in the immediate future.
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Old 3rd February 2015, 17:35   #37
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Default Re: With a 70% sales growth in 2014, Royal Enfield overtakes Harley Davidson

From struggling to survive in the early 2000's to struggling to keep up with the volume of demand, Chennai based Royal Enfield has come a long way. The Eicher motors owned company recorded sales of over 3 Lakh units in 2014 compared to the shade over 1.78 Lakh units sold in 2013.

In India, Royal Enfield has often been compared to Harley-Davidson as both brands are identified for their cruisers. While Royal Enfield sold in excess of 3 Lakh units last year, Harley-Davidson sold around 2.68 Lakh units globally. While the numbers do show Royal Enfield's rising popularity, it is also important to note that Harley-Davidson's cheapest motorcycle i.e. the Street 750 costs around twice as much as Royal Enfield's most expensive offering - the Continental GT.

Link to Team-BHP news article

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Old 4th February 2015, 00:11   #38
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Default Re: With a 70% sales growth in 2014, Royal Enfield overtakes Harley Davidson

It is a great feat indeed & I am no fan of the RE, quite opposite actually. However what Mr. Lal has done with the company is commendable.

As for the comparison with HD, I think its fair & here is why

• Both are niche bike makers
• Bikes by both companies have cult following
• Bike by both companies have large number of clubs whose membership is exclusive to owners of these bikes
• Both companies make bikes which use relatively low tech/old technology
• Both make touring bikes (infact almost every bike of theirs is a tourer)

hope this helps

Last edited by Technocrat : 4th February 2015 at 00:15.
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Old 4th February 2015, 08:39   #39
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Default Re: With a 70% sales growth in 2014, Royal Enfield overtakes Harley Davidson

Here is a yahoo link to same topic.


https://autos.yahoo.com/news/royal-e...170049038.html
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Old 6th February 2015, 22:05   #40
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Default Re: With a 70% sales growth in 2014, Royal Enfield overtakes Harley Davidson

Quote:
Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
Harley Davidson is a market leader in USA, while Royal Enfield is not a market leader in India - there in lies the difference.
Good point, but, there's a significant different in the entire biking segment of both the countries. US is a nation where people use cars for commute mainly and not a majority own bikes there. But here, many people use bikes because they cant afford a car for daily commute. Which gives Indian Motorcycle manufacturers like TVS and Bajaj certain advantages because of its price.

A bike from a manufacturer like RE, having sold 2.63 Lakhs per se, with a price tag of above INR 1 lakhs, in such a market as this, is a wonderful thing which deserves special appreciation.
The news was how RE "outsold" Harley Davidson. A manufacturer which used to sell a little more that 50,000 bikes a year, have sold 3 lakhs mainly into a single country's biking segment is what made the news. The rate of growth. Harleys have always sold top quality bikes and dominated majority of the US market, agreed. But RE never enjoyed any such privilege.
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Old 7th February 2015, 17:10   #41
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Default Re: With a 70% sales growth in 2014, Royal Enfield overtakes Harley Davidson

Foreign media picking up the Royal Enfield Vs Harley Davidson story.

This India-based motorcycle company outsold Harley-Davidson in 2014
http://www.businessinsider.com/this-...in-2014-2015-2

The story is much more balanced though - the author talks about bike price, quality & per capita income too, along with "Move Over, Harley" language.
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Old 8th February 2015, 09:27   #42
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Default Re: With a 70% sales growth in 2014, Royal Enfield overtakes Harley Davidson

Quote:
Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
Foreign media picking up the Royal Enfield Vs Harley Davidson story.

This India-based motorcycle company outsold Harley-Davidson in 2014
http://www.businessinsider.com/this-...in-2014-2015-2

The story is much more balanced though - the author talks about bike price, quality & per capita income too, along with "Move Over, Harley" language.
I agree, a more balanced view here. I think it would be really interesting when these two things happen.
1) Harley gets into the 500 cc space, firstly with the street 500 and then with some new more cruiser offerings
2) RE gets into the 750-800 cc space with their (rumored) 750 cc paraller twin iteration.
If Harley gets its price and quality and NVH levels right, they steal the market from RE. If RE gets their new twin right with enough retro feel and character and modern reliability they may just take away the Harley entry market...
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Old 8th February 2015, 10:22   #43
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Default Re: With a 70% sales growth in 2014, Royal Enfield overtakes Harley Davidson

Let me first congratulate Royal Enfield for this feat!

As most BHPians have rightly said, its not right to compare two bikes which are totally different but compared only because both of them have a cult following! I think RE have done a fantastic job with marketing and building the brand image. Hats off to the marketing team! I mean seriously, I can never forget seeing those TRIP ads as a kid and just wanting to be as cool as those guys. The whole cult brand that they built is amazing! Last but not the least, the people who also made it possible- the wannabes

P.S: I think comparing RE and HD is a foolish thing to do. Lets just enjoy them both

Last edited by Impala59 : 8th February 2015 at 10:24.
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Old 9th February 2015, 01:07   #44
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Default Re: With a 70% sales growth in 2014, Royal Enfield overtakes Harley Davidson

IMO, it is a very apt article. I see many commonality in the 2 Bike makers:
1) Both of the them are big ( i.e. cc wise) bike makers in their respective countries.
2) both of them are old brands who lost out their markets to the Japanese bikes..
3)couple of years back, both of them were struggling in their business. And look where are they today. Both of them have fixed their quality issues and build.
4) HD represents a American life, so does the Bullets in India.
5) both of them made their shareholders happy in the share market.
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Old 16th February 2016, 09:52   #45
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Default Re: With a 70% sales growth in 2014, Royal Enfield overtakes Harley Davidson

Latest data point on this. Eicher Motors (Primarily driven by Royal Enfield) market cap exceeds Harley Davidson. Again probably not a fair comparison. But does show how the Market Value of Eicher has really shot up as a result of the huge success of the RE Brand.

The Times Group seem to be very interested in comparing RE and Harley.

Quote:
The gap between the market caps of the two companies was $13 billion two years ago. On Monday, Eicher's market cap was $57 million higher than Harley's.

In the latest global pecking order by market cap, Bajaj Auto ($9.9 b) is on top, followed by Eicher ($7.48 b) and Harley ($7.42 b). With Hero MotoCorp at $7.35 billion, Indian firms now occupy 3 of the top 5 slots.
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