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Old 22nd January 2016, 12:46   #481
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Default re: Royal Enfield trademarks the name "Himalayan" EDIT: Now unveiled!

Weird that RE didn't edit that bit out before publishing the video

Leads to unnecessary assumptions of the product when RE has a reputation of parts breaking or konking off which they are trying to remove with this product.
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Old 22nd January 2016, 14:01   #482
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Default re: Royal Enfield trademarks the name "Himalayan" EDIT: Now unveiled!

Quote:
Originally Posted by adrian View Post
Royal Enfield oozing with confidence to declare the 10000 KM service interval.
This is the BEST part about this bike.

I have a feeling that the bike is still front-heavy - from the videos.
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Old 22nd January 2016, 15:14   #483
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Default

There are divergent views. You say it's front heavy, I feel (after seeing the video) rear suspension is too soft. We need to watch the final product actually now. No more assumption. More over it may have a damn torquey motor but then again it's not a pure motocross bike. Though Siddarth Lal says it can cruise at 100 effortlessly....
So basically lot of ifs and Buts to check out after lunch for all those who want to join the Himalayan party.
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Old 22nd January 2016, 16:27   #484
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Default re: Royal Enfield trademarks the name "Himalayan" EDIT: Now unveiled!

Posted on Twitter regarding the foot peg breaking and got the reply I was hoping for.
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The Royal Enfield Himalayan, now launched!-wp_ss_20160122_0001.png  

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Old 22nd January 2016, 19:19   #485
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Default re: Royal Enfield trademarks the name "Himalayan" EDIT: Now unveiled!

Quote:
Originally Posted by amansanc View Post
Posted on Twitter regarding the foot peg breaking and got the reply I was hoping for.
Absolutely! I must sound like a broken record by now, but my friend who is closely involved with the project also happened to mention that the footpeg bracket has indeed been replaced with a sturdier one

Bonus update - On the matter of weight, the bike reportedly weighs in the 170s (he could not recall the exact number) Dry, but with panniers.

Now, the panniers on sale for KTM Duke (The Dirtsack Llama) weigh 11 kilos with the mounting hardware. If I were to take this number and apply it to the REs panniers (although they do look bulkier), this means the weight would be in 160s dry, and in the 170s wet

Thats impressive! Especially when you take into account that the lightest Enfield currently on sale (Continental GT) weighs around 185 kilos wet
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Old 22nd January 2016, 22:00   #486
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Default Please refrain from creating back-to-back posts within a short interval. Use the edit button instead

My views on this-
OK- so I posted this 'review' of mine and then some guy from RE has thrown the good corporate public relations spiel at me...

"So there are two ways to fo this- either go on like the 50 journos who will wet their pants in writing about this bike- never having owned an adventure bike and to comment on whats the GREAT' about this bile or sit back and watch the video on the following time line- from just one video-
0:18- front landing
0:21 FrontL
0:23 Rear tire hop
0:33 Front
1:04 Front
1:29- Posture- the front end is designed by someone who has no idea on how an ADV bike is to be designed... its sad to watch the crouch- what off road will this do? CS is without doubt the premier rider in the sub continent, let alone India- and to give him a bike without the handles being adjusted- he might as well have been riding a Kinetic.
1:51 Front landing.
The idea of this post guyis not to laugh at the effort taken by RE- but that they really should know how to do their work.
The balance in front biased and then on downhills, forget broken tarmac or dirt- it will be extremely dangerous to brake- as the front will get overloaded and as seen in the rear tire hops on just flat road at 0:23- this will take a newbie rider down.
There are a dozen other riders from the adv category who are aghast at this- and also on another video to have a foot peg break at 1:54... When the entire world uses the side stand to be down and foot pegs to climb on adventure bikes- if pegs start to break.
I pray that there is someone holistic in RE reading this. Somone who owns and rides an adventure bike.
I got the same sorry reply from them on Youtube- and they dont even know that- if thats the video they wanted to release- they should have highlighted it in the video and then shown the improved foot peg in the same video- rather than now searching for footage...
Poor show- so much expactation. The Impulse and the Lander will eat this bike for breakfast.
They used the low end of the Continental Chassis and the stance is wrong for an Adv bike...
The guy/s who designed it apparently left- and now its CYA in full bloom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by naveenroy View Post
This is the BEST part about this bike.

I have a feeling that the bike is still front-heavy - from the videos.
You are spot on on the front heavy- thats a disaster- watch CS Santosh on the bike in the RDH- for whichever year you want or the TVS Sherco bikes- and any frontlanding bike will crash 3 times out of 5... I mean this is basics boss.

And the poor fuel tank? 12-13 litres? for an Adv bike?

And about the service interval- hahahhhahaha - one prays that it does not need visits for other reasons.

Last edited by FlyingSpur : 23rd January 2016 at 23:21.
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Old 22nd January 2016, 22:52   #487
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Default re: Royal Enfield trademarks the name "Himalayan" EDIT: Now unveiled!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer & Anvil View Post
You are spot on on the front heavy- thats a disaster- watch CS Santosh on the bike in the RDH- for whichever year you want or the TVS Sherco bikes- and any frontlanding bike will crash 3 times out of 5... I mean this is basics boss.

And the poor fuel tank? 12-13 litres? for an Adv bike?

And about the service interval- hahahhhahaha - one prays that it does not need visits for other reasons.
The development of the bike seems more hands on rather than any real background research being carried out. Harris Performance is mostly involved with track based workshop engineering rather than off road R&D or racing for that matter.

So the end product you have is born out of a poor briefing that the Enfield management created for Harris Engineering backed by desire but very little expertise, and then HE executing this briefing with their limited off road engineering skill.

All said and done 'The Himalyan' should sell well. The Enfield brand is strong in India and it has virtually no competition in the Indian market. Margins will be decent and most buyers will be rich novice riders who would ride over his local khadda and come back impressed since his Pulsar could not do the same thing.

That said there's immense potential for the after market solutions for the Himalyan to develop. Unlike the Impulse, the Himalyan will sell in more significant numbers and have a client base with more of a disposable income.

It might be a half ar$ed attempt, but the Himalyan might just give a much needed kick to the nascent off roading scene in India.

Last edited by shortbread : 22nd January 2016 at 22:54.
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Old 22nd January 2016, 23:07   #488
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Default re: Royal Enfield trademarks the name "Himalayan" EDIT: Now unveiled!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer & Anvil View Post
My views on this-

1:29- Posture- the front end is designed by someone who has no idea on how an ADV bike is to be designed... its sad to watch the crouch- what off road will this do? CS is without doubt the premier rider in the sub continent, let alone India- and to give him a bike without the handles being adjusted- he might as well have been riding a Kinetic.

The balance in front biased and then on downhills, forget broken tarmac or dirt- it will be extremely dangerous to brake

The guy/s who designed it apparently left- and now its CYA in full bloom.
I am no expert at taking 2 wheels off road but I would like to understand your comments better. My understanding on riding in the dirt:

- Turning in the dirt : Approaching a corner, you brake hard, rider puts his weight on the back wheel so as to not overload the front. To actually turn the bike, the rider shifts his weight forward so that the front wheel can "dig in" for better grip and turn quicker. Without any weight on the front tyre whilst turning, the front end can easily wash out. This phenomenon I think is also known as "pushing the front"
- Jumps : Again, body position of the rider plays a huge role. I learnt this from personal experience, after a Hero Impulse almost sent me up and over its handlebars. Typically, you need to be standing in an attack stance, neutral position (not too far back or front). Thottle too plays a huge role. You roll off throttle just before the "base" of the jump and open throttle just as you hit it. Even mid air, more throttle would make the front end rise while closed throttle will cause the nose to dip. Skilled off roaders often use these techniques depending on the angle of the jump and descent

So what does it all mean to me:

- A rider balances the motorcyle, period
- Riding off road, weight distribution has to be actively manipulated by the rider
- A "front biased" bike will turn better and quicker
- Personally, I do not see anything so shocking in the videos to doubt the engineering prowess of the motorcycle
- Not sure who is covering who's bum? AFAIK, people in the RE camp are pretty excited about the product and its launch in the near future

Cheers!

Last edited by Urban_Nomad : 22nd January 2016 at 23:08.
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Old 23rd January 2016, 19:39   #489
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Default re: Royal Enfield trademarks the name "Himalayan" EDIT: Now unveiled!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad View Post
I am no expert at taking 2 wheels off road but ...
I am no expert on these matters either. Therefore- an offline message has tried to explain my angst.
About the details you speak, you need to make the differentiation between the ADV bike and a Scrambler and the terrain limitations of both- maybe that would help.
I think they will make an unqualified success of this bike, and am sure they will have a wait list of year- time to buy Eicher Shares.
I think we should await reviews from auto/bike magazines, ironically most of whom seem to have missed the breaking foot peg... oh- in torture testing...
Wonderful.
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Old 24th January 2016, 12:14   #490
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Default re: Royal Enfield trademarks the name "Himalayan" EDIT: Now unveiled!

I agree completely with Hammer & Anvil. This bike is going to be a nightmare for newbies who think this can do what an adv/ds/dirt usually is capable of. The crouch as he mentioned is i think a miss of the basics. Nevertheless I think this can be somewhat taken care of by swapping out the handlebar with a dirt bike handle(renthal etc) with risers. Again second guessing cos the character of the bike is not yet well known to understand what these mods will do to bring significant improvement. The RE fanboys need to look at this with their glasses off as everybody here really wants to see this bike be what it promises to be. No point trying to modify the laws of physics to suit your opinion.The only Bums in danger are those of the buyers which need to stay on the saddle rather than hit the dirt.
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Old 24th January 2016, 12:34   #491
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Default re: Royal Enfield trademarks the name "Himalayan" EDIT: Now unveiled!

Spotted this bike between Pune Kolhapur yesterday.
Attached Thumbnails
The Royal Enfield Himalayan, now launched!-20160123_151545.jpg  

The Royal Enfield Himalayan, now launched!-20160123_151527.jpg  

The Royal Enfield Himalayan, now launched!-20160123_151526.jpg  

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Old 24th January 2016, 12:45   #492
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Default re: Royal Enfield trademarks the name "Himalayan" EDIT: Now unveiled!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abhi99 View Post
Spotted this bike between Pune Kolhapur yesterday.
It's a good old AVL Thunderbird with some mods and a different tank. Probably mod'd for long trips and some Himalayan roads.
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Old 25th January 2016, 11:35   #493
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Default re: Royal Enfield trademarks the name "Himalayan" EDIT: Now unveiled!

There has been a deluge of phone calls from friends, family, and those who claim to have had the opportunity to test ride the bike- and from the few that I trust when coming to relating experiences-
1. The video is over a year or some- old. A lot of modifications have been done since.
2. The bike is nothing like its come across in the video- and a lot of heart, soul has gone into it and the few say- its a remarkable machine.
So when i asked whats about the video- they replied that the words test' testing' etc were probably not highlighted- or were taken that the audio was disjointed.
So- a few of my 'notes' were (as also the notifications by others here) acknowledged- and the request was- it would really be nice if you could look at the video with these googles- "looking forward to see how they have improved on these issues..."

I must say- I agree- and I wait.
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Old 25th January 2016, 11:45   #494
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Default re: Royal Enfield trademarks the name "Himalayan" EDIT: Now unveiled!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer & Anvil View Post
..
1. The video is over a year or some- old. A lot of modifications have been done since.
Could be quite possible. I have heard about CSS testing the prototype quite a long time ago. Not sure of the exact time frame!
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Old 25th January 2016, 12:09   #495
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Default Re: Please refrain from creating back-to-back posts within a short interval. Use the edit button ins

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer & Anvil View Post
My views on this-
OK- so I posted this 'review' of mine and then some guy from RE has thrown the good corporate public relations spiel at me...
I am little confused here if it is about RE replying to a tweet about the breaking foot peg. A company that has the courtesy to at least acknowledge and reply quickly to clarify about the incident as being a part of the torture test is good in my books.
Quote:
So there are two ways to fo this- either go on like the 50 journos who will wet their pants in writing about this bike- never having owned an adventure bike and to comment on whats the GREAT about this bike or sit back and watch the video on the following time line- from just one video
To listen to the journos or not is one's choice, but as an ADV tourer enthusiast I listened to what CS Santosh had to say about the Himalayan. And By Word I take his views on the motorcycle with seriousness.
Quote:
1:29- Posture- the front end is designed by someone who has no idea on how an ADV bike is to be designed... its sad to watch the crouch- what off road will this do?
An ADV tourer is not a hard core off roader like the ultra light dirt bikes to jump off and on. It was just that CS Santosh was testing the motorcycle to its very limits as rightly quoted by RE as torture test. After reading and interacting with enormous amount of experiences of ADV riders on various forums I have come to know that most of the ADV tourers do not look at their motorcycles as true blue offroader. It is built for both the highways and dirt trails. Also the test was carried out at Big Rock adventure which has those mud humps and technical trails for jumping which is a proving ground for ADV as well as Dirt bikes. Apart from jumping and speeding an ADV tourer is also required to do a lot of crawling(in our Jeep mates parlance) on dirt trails.
Quote:
CS is without doubt the premier rider in the sub continent, let alone India- and to give him a bike without the handles being adjusted- he might as well have been riding a Kinetic.
Maybe but this is what CS Santosh had to say, "I was glad to be a part of the project because obviously being able to help with the offroading capabilities." How many Indian manufacturers consider taking inputs from professional riders/racers for their motorcycles?
Quote:
1:51 Front landing.
The idea of this post guyis not to laugh at the effort taken by RE- but that they really should know how to do their work.
If that really was the case then CS Santosh wouldn't have said these words(excerpt from the video said by CS Santosh), "Most of the times you have motorcycles that do well on the street but as soon as you take them off road they don't seem to fit in. While I was surprised because think it felt natural to be off road as well and just the way it was sitting around between my legs it felt good because I've been used to the rally bike and it didn't feel strange at all. I was glad to be a part of the project because obviously being able to help with the off roading capabilities." I feel it is wonderful that RE roped in one of the best off roaders in India to get his valuable inputs to develop the Himalayan. Also most of the guys buying the Himalayan wont be flying in the air like CS Santosh is as he is torture testing the motorcycle.
Quote:
The balance in front biased and then on downhills, forget broken tarmac or dirt- it will be extremely dangerous to brake- as the front will get overloaded and as seen in the rear tire hops on just flat road at 0:23- this will take a newbie rider down.
Another excerpt "For a COMMON MAN it will not be intimidating because the power is there but its not going to be aggressive where he is to be worried about what the motorcycle's going to do." Although here he talks about the power but from my riding experience I have found the Tbird500 which is again front heavy does it easily. For example me along with another rider came across a narrow decline trail at about 70 degrees(barely 1 and a half feet wide) which was about 50 feet long and had a hard right turn. We declined down that gradient with our front heavy Tbird's with adequate braking and the same time momentum about 25 KMPH and were able to climb back up at about 25 KMPH with ease. It is how one balances oneself as well as the motorcycle that matters.
Quote:
There are a dozen other riders from the adv category who are aghast at this-and also on another video to have a foot peg break at 1:54... When the entire world uses the side stand to be down and foot pegs to climb on adventure bikes- if pegs start to break.
There is no point bringing this again and again as RE themselves have justified about this and have said things like these during torture test helps them identify the flaws and fix it. They have claimed that they have replaced the foot peg with a sturdier one. To give you an example myself weighing about 90+Kgs stood on my Tbird500's front foot peg while riding on an off road dirt track(for about 15-20 mins) which was strewn with potholes and depressions created by trucks and mind you the road was nothing but hard clay. Also this was not the first time I stood on the foot peg while riding on off road trails, I have done so on my Tbird AVL while riding in the rain and sun on a beaten down roads without any problem.
Quote:
I pray that there is someone holistic in RE reading this. Somone who owns and rides an adventure bike.
What more can one ask for when RE has roped in the best off roader in India to test and develop their motorcycle. How many manufacturers in India take inputs from such world renowned riders?
Quote:
I got the same sorry reply from them on Youtube- and they dont even know that- if thats the video they wanted to release- they should have highlighted it in the video and then shown the improved foot peg in the same video- rather than now searching for footage...
At least I am not that sceptical as I haven't seen foreign manufacturers of high end motorcycles selling in India coming out and saying the problem associated with the braking and stalling issues. I don't need to name the manufacturers here as everyone knows.
Quote:
Poor show- so much expactation. The Impulse and the Lander will eat this bike for breakfast.
The fact is that Impulse is no longer in production so the comparison is null and void. A Lander AFAIK is a dirt bike and not an ADV tourer. So whether they it for breakfast, lunch or dinner does not really matter as they are built for different purpose.
Quote:
They used the low end of the Continental Chassis and the stance is wrong for an Adv bike...
I am not sure as CS Santosh says this, "While I was surprised beacuse think it felt natural to be offroad as well and just the way it was sitting around between my legs it felt good because I've been used to the rally bike and it didn't feel strange at all."
Quote:
You are spot on on the front heavy- thats a disaster- watch CS Santosh on the bike in the RDH- for whichever year you want or the TVS Sherco bikes- and any frontlanding bike will crash 3 times out of 5... I mean this is basics boss.
For that matter even the Triumph Tiger, BMW R1200GS, etc are front heavy ADV tourers, so are you saying they got their basics wrong?
Quote:
And the poor fuel tank? 12-13 litres? for an Adv bike?
Nope the fuel tank is 15 litres stock(range of about 400-500 kms). I cant think of a stretch in India where a petrol station is that far between the range. They also have a provision for jerry cans which is not like the usual jugaad but with proper mounting points. Which motorcycle manufacturer in India gives the jerry can mounting points from the factory?
Quote:
And about the service interval- hahahhhahaha - one prays that it does not need visits for other reasons.
Usual RE bashing at its best, I think I will take this as a sarcastic joke.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer & Anvil View Post
I am no expert on these matters either. About the details you speak, you need to make the differentiation between the ADV bike and a Scrambler and the terrain limitations of both- maybe that would help.
So according to you is the Himalayan a scrambler or an ADV tourer? I am little confused as you were comparing it with a Lander(which is technically a dirt bike) in your earlier post. Terrain limitation of an ADV tourer is what I was trying to explain earlier. The terrain where it was torture tested(Big Rock Adventure which is a technical trail) is more than what it will face by an average ADV rider.
Quote:
I think they will make an unqualified success of this bike, and am sure they will have a wait list of year- time to buy Eicher Shares.
So what's wrong if the people are buying their motorcycles and the shareholders are happy? In a way RE has opened this segment for an average ADV tourer in India who cannot afford to buy super expensive ADV bikes. Those people at least have an option now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cUjO View Post
I agree completely with Hammer & Anvil. This bike is going to be a nightmare for newbies who think this can do what an adv/ds/dirt usually is capable of.The crouch as he mentioned is i think a miss of the basics.

Nevertheless I think this can be somewhat taken care of by swapping out the handlebar with a dirt bike handle(renthal etc) with risers. Again second guessing cos the character of the bike is not yet well known to understand what these mods will do to bring significant improvement. The RE fanboys need to look at this with their glasses off as everybody here really wants to see this bike be what it promises to be. No point trying to modify the laws of physics to suit your opinion. The only Bums in danger are those of the buyers which need to stay on the saddle rather than hit the dirt.
No comments but just the excerpt from the video as said by CS Santosh, "Most of the times you have motorcycles that do well on the street but as soon as you take them offroad they dont seem to fit in. While I was surprised beacuse think it felt natural to be offroad as well and just the way it was sitting around between my legs it felt good because I've been used to the rally bike and it didn't feel strange at all. For a COMMON MAN it will not be intimidating because the power is there but its not going to be aggressive where he is to be worried about what the motorcycle's going to do. I was glad to be a part of the project because obviously being able to help with the offroading capabilities."
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