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Old 8th February 2016, 14:39   #571
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Default re: The Royal Enfield Himalayan, now launched!

Before the widespread use of internet and before the Indian business houses had access to the best talent and know-how, we had bikes like the Rajdoot 350, the KB Enduro and the likes. What was common amongst all these bikes were that they looked ugly and were questionable on performance.

The manufacturers of those days can be excused because they were still in their learning days.

So, what excuse do the makers of the Royal Enfield Himalayan have? Have they been living under a rock? No, I dont think so. Do they have no sense of aesthetics and balance? No, that cant be it. I mean look at their ads. They are so well made.

So then what is wrong with them?!?!?

The bike looks like they have taken a stock standard Bullet and pressed it on its sides which makes it narrow and tall to look at. Those tyres look too skinny to me to inspire any confidence. And, come on, just a 24bhp engine? When the consumers of India have access to the best of the tourers, Royal Enfield comes up with this contraption?

This looks like an illegitimate child of a tourer, a dirt bike and a cruiser!!!
It is too small to be a tourer.
It is too heavy to be a dirt bike.
And most of its parts have come off a cruiser.

What is so great about this bike? And I am damn sure this is not going to be cheap.

I can understand the emotive connect people have towards the Bullet but that does not mean you shortchange such a fan following and offer such a sub-standard product.

So, there. I have said it.
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Old 8th February 2016, 14:48   #572
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I think this bike makes a lot of sense in the following situations :
1. If you live in the himalayas and hit trails everyday to work and back. This bike has most of what you need. And can be fixed by your local spanner. If I were living up in the mountains, this is what I would get.
2. Great poser bike. Get your self all the gear and ride out to the local coffee shops. Offer soccer mom's a ride. Great poser value, have to admit.

But the game has moved on. We are in an age when we need tech that works and not a sloppy excuse that this bike is easier to fix. It shouldn't need to be fixed.
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Old 8th February 2016, 15:00   #573
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Default re: The Royal Enfield Himalayan, now launched!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeantownThinker View Post
I can understand the emotive connect people have towards the Bullet but that does not mean you shortchange such a fan following and offer such a sub-standard product.

So, there. I have said it.
Aargh, they will come for you soon - the fans of the whatever-happens-metal-Royal-Enfield-bikes-are-the-best.

I am personally not excited by this bike either. But it would be nice to test ride one - perhaps take it to the mountains.
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Old 8th February 2016, 17:16   #574
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Default re: The Royal Enfield Himalayan, now launched!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeantownThinker View Post
Before the widespread use of internet and before the Indian business houses had access to the best talent and know-how, we had bikes like the Rajdoot 350, the KB Enduro and the likes. What was common amongst all these bikes were that they looked ugly and were questionable on performance.

The manufacturers of those days can be excused because they were still in their learning days.

So, what excuse do the makers of the Royal Enfield Himalayan have? Have they been living under a rock? No, I dont think so. Do they have no sense of aesthetics and balance? No, that cant be it. I mean look at their ads. They are so well made.

So then what is wrong with them?!?!?

The bike looks like they have taken a stock standard Bullet and pressed it on its sides which makes it narrow and tall to look at. Those tyres look too skinny to me to inspire any confidence. And, come on, just a 24bhp engine? When the consumers of India have access to the best of the tourers, Royal Enfield comes up with this contraption?

This looks like an illegitimate child of a tourer, a dirt bike and a cruiser!!!
It is too small to be a tourer.
It is too heavy to be a dirt bike.
And most of its parts have come off a cruiser.

What is so great about this bike? And I am damn sure this is not going to be cheap.

I can understand the emotive connect people have towards the Bullet but that does not mean you shortchange such a fan following and offer such a sub-standard product.

So, there. I have said it.
Sorry to say this but you don't really know what you are talking about. Nitpicking here : rajdoot 350 - questionable looks and performance !!? What ? I could say it's a matter of personal opinion but then you'd have to disagree with a sizeable population spread across the world. Oh btw it's the Yamaha rd350 that had a rajdoot sticker on the tank.
As for the Himalayan ; it share almost nothing with their current crop, some part may have been re-engineered like maybe a part of the frame (?) but the rest is all new . If you are going to base your 'observations' based on what you think you can visually discern from pics then may the farce be with you. Please do wait for it to come out, ride it , understand what has gone into it and then we can have a meaningful conversation. Else credit is due where it is deserved, at least for the effort RE has put in . Btw I am a self confessed Bullet basher having owned two of them, but I do believe this product will be a whole lot diff .
Cheers
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Old 8th February 2016, 18:10   #575
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Default re: The Royal Enfield Himalayan, now launched!

Yes Arvin,

I saw the display bike at one of the dealership here in Gurgaon and it looks awesome IMO. As per the dealer they will start excepting booking from second week of March. The auto expo did not have any major launches not at least in the price range. If the rumor is correct and the bike is below the 2 lakh mark, I think it will be a excellent buy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arvin_86 View Post
They have started displaying the bike? or was this at the unveil ?

I was hoping that auto expo might might give us a good choice to choose from. A sub 500 bike with decent touring abilities. But nothing concrete has come up so far.
  • BMW g310r might be launching late this year. No launch plans revealed.
  • MT-03, after all the raving(the most awaited bike, wasn't it), was nowhere to be seen.
  • And then there was this glimmer of hope(from couple of reports) that Honda might, after all these years, come up with CBR 300.
  • CS 400, the powerful cruiser sport from Bajaj seems to have lost its route, or are they waiting for KTM to come up with the 2017 bikes, so that 400s don't cannibalize KTM sales.

So this might be it. I think i will go ahead and book this one, hoping that they will start deliveries at least before April end. RE chaps at Bangalore are saying booking might start in the 2nd week of march.
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Old 8th February 2016, 18:15   #576
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Default re: The Royal Enfield Himalayan, now launched!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeantownThinker View Post
we had bikes like the Rajdoot 350............looked ugly and were questionable on performance.

The manufacturers of those days can be excused because they were still in their learning days.
So who are you excusing here? Yamaha? How generous. Glad to know they have now come up the learning curve since now they have an unlimited data plan available

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeantownThinker View Post
So then what is wrong with them?!?!?
Why dont you tell us?

The biggest problem with this bike is that it does not appeal to folks who view motorcycles as:

- Another poser object that might get them more facebook likes
- These people usually keep oo-ing and aa-ing over a design ... and not much else. Function follows form for them
- Are not really into motorcycling. I would venture so far as to say that 90+ % of Himalayan bashers do not own a motorcycle

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeantownThinker View Post
The bike looks like they have taken a stock standard Bullet and pressed it on its sides which makes it narrow and tall to look at. Those tyres look too skinny to me to inspire any confidence.
Now this is a real gem. A bike, that has a brand new engine, frame, wheels that are so different they have had to tie up with a tyre manufacturer to make rubber for them in a "special" size. Heck, even the accessories are brand new, from the scratch, never offered on any enfield EVER

What parts have been shared? Do tell

And what does the width of the tyre have to do with grip? Will a (say) 180 section tyre perform better than 130? Is that your logic?

But then I agree, it does not look meaty enough, does it? I mean, how pathetic it would look as someone tries to pose with the bike head on and that narrow front tyre spoils an otherwise super like worthy pic. My goddddd ....... the HORROR!!!

Its also very intriguing that you have ascertained tyre grip by just looking at pics. Not a talent many can boast of posessing sir. Well done!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeantownThinker View Post
And, come on, just a 24bhp engine
Agreed! Some more power would have been nice. But real world performance is yet to be seen

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeantownThinker View Post
This looks like an illegitimate child of a tourer, a dirt bike and a cruiser!!!
It is too small to be a tourer.
Small how? What is an acceptable length for a tourer

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeantownThinker View Post
It is too heavy to be a dirt bike.
Its not a dirt bike

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeantownThinker View Post
And most of its parts have come off a cruiser.
Which ones exactly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeantownThinker View Post
What is so great about this bike? And I am damn sure this is not going to be cheap.
Its great because it helps the mango man achieve most his "real world" motorcyling aspirations, which can be loosely summed up as below:

- Pillion and luggage friendly
- Should be devoid of vibrations and should be able to cruise all day at around 120 without breaking a sweat
- Should be versatile. Day to day commuting should not be a bother
- (relatively) Cost effective to own an maintain (Hope you did not miss the 10000 KM oil change interval)
- Should be better at the rough stuff than a street bike. Not a hard core technical off roader, but should manage potholes and gravel / dirt roads with ease

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeantownThinker View Post
I can understand the emotive connect people have towards the Bullet but that does not mean you shortchange such a fan following and offer such a sub-standard product.

So, there. I have said it.
The bullets that are on sale at this point in time - the classic and the likes; I cannot understand how one can pay close to 2 lakh rupees for a product like that. But here is an all new bike, with all new everything. I am going to wait for:

- The OTR price
- Warranty on offer
- A test ride!

If I feel its not a worthy ride or moves like a dog, I will be the first to say it. I wont however make conclusive sweeping comments like some here without swinging a leg over it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
I think this bike makes a lot of sense in the following situations :
1. If you live in the himalayas and hit trails everyday to work and back. This bike has most of what you need. And can be fixed by your local spanner. If I were living up in the mountains, this is what I would get.
Dude. So Enfield went through all that trouble of creating a bike from scratch, so that a handful of people living in the mountains could buy it? Priceless!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
2. Great poser bike. Get your self all the gear and ride out to the local coffee shops. Offer soccer mom's a ride. Great poser value, have to admit.
Oh my god!!!! There is so much to be said here, none of which is permissable by the etiquette defined by T-BHP. So I'll just make do with this -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
But the game has moved on.
The game has certainly moved on. Its a pity there's some people who havent. They still cannot see beyond the looks and the posing to understand the purpose behind the creation. These folks will never know the joy of having a motorcycle between their legs

They will keep finding faults or reasons for how a bike is stupid. Want me to give you examples? And do tell me if any of these ring a bell with you:

- Versys is nice. But it "pussyfoots" everywhere. Why cant I have a KLR 650 with a Versys engine?
- Duke 390 is nice. Is it going to come with more upgrades in a year? Actually, what about KTM twins? I would love to have one. Oh, maybe an Enduro 390 is on the cards too. No no, I ll wait
- Himalayan is ..... wait for it ..... a POSER

This is for your beenfit - take it or leave it. A good doc from Pune once told me - Motorcyling has a shelf life. Enjoy it in the present, else you will wait endlessly for the next big thing

I took his advice and havent regretted it for a second. There is no perfect bike. About time you realized it
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Old 8th February 2016, 18:40   #577
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Default re: The Royal Enfield Himalayan, now launched!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeantownThinker View Post
The bike looks like they have taken a stock standard Bullet and pressed it on its sides which makes it narrow and tall to look at.

What is so great about this bike? And I am damn sure this is not going to be cheap.

I can understand the emotive connect people have towards the Bullet but that does not mean you shortchange such a fan following and offer such a sub-standard product
Looks can be subjective, I agree. I feel like it looks just fine though

However venturing so far as to call it a substandard product might amount to jumping the gun, wouldn't you agree?

It is quite a different motorcycle from anything they've produced before, not much raiding of the good ol' parts bin

To each his own as they say, however you might like to test ride it just once. Just to see if its all as bad as you've made it out to be

Kind Regards,

BOV
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Old 8th February 2016, 20:23   #578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
2. Great poser bike. Get your self all the gear and ride out to the local coffee shops. Offer soccer mom's a ride. Great poser value, have to admit.
Mate, that's what they say about the GS as well.

Whereas they're the best adv bike money can buy (Except maybe the Honda AT). Though, I'm in no way comparing the Himalayan to a GS. But, I think it's a step in the right direction for RE as far as adv riding is considered.

Whether you pose with it or abuse it in the mountains, that's on you.

Cheers
Nick.
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Old 8th February 2016, 21:07   #579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad View Post
And do tell me if any of these ring a bell with you:

- Versys is nice. But it "pussyfoots" everywhere. Why cant I have a KLR 650 with a Versys engine?
- Duke 390 is nice. Is it going to come with more upgrades in a year? Actually, what about KTM twins? I would love to have one. Oh, maybe an Enduro 390 is on the cards too. No no, I ll wait
- Himalayan is ..... wait for it ..... a POSER

This is for your beenfit - take it or leave it. A good doc from Pune once told me - Motorcyling has a shelf life. Enjoy it in the present, else you will wait endlessly for the next big thing

I took his advice and havent regretted it for a second. There is no perfect bike. About time you realized it
Versys is a soft roader. It's intended so. You should also read my earliest posts on the versys which had me Gaga until I visualized going off road. I had already put aside the cash for the bike.

Yes the 390 is nice and there's a whole new platform for next year.
The twins should be due out too. I am expecting colossal changes since it's KTM we are talking about.

And the himalayan is not very Himalayan. Would have been perfect with 50 hp and fi on which a powertronics unit with switchable maps would have been perfect. The power figures and the carb is a Big let down. But I certainly love how the bike has been designed. Total drool maal.

All the above are facts. If they aren't, please let me know so I can correct them.

I am not due back home (wherever that is) until may or June this year, hence my predicament. And hence I can afford to sit back and figure things out slowly. I have my thinking cap on before I get back to motorbiking so I don't waste time keyboarding when I should be on the trail. The way it stands, I will go with a used 390 until the twins launch.

I also agree with doc on the shelf life.

That's just me. And I agree, a lot of our views must wait until test rides begin... Whenever that is.

I think my loyalties have shifted to KTM until I see something that competes better for my wallet.

I do look forward to your suggestions over on the riding gear and 390 threads since I am getting back on the saddle a good 10 years later and lots has changed. You are a wealth of information. Hope we get to ride together sometime.
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Old 8th February 2016, 21:49   #580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
And the himalayan is not very Himalayan. Would have been perfect with 50 hp and fi on which a powertronics unit with switchable maps would have been perfect. The power figures and the carb is a Big let down. But I certainly love how the bike has been designed. Total drool maal.
Horsepower isn't everything. Torque is a very important part of the equation if you're looking for off-roading. That's what the Himalayan has (though it should have been above 35nm atleast, but that I'll decide after the test ride). It's a general characteristic of a long stroke engine to give good amount of torque at low RPMs. Just to compare, I'm going to consider KTM's 390 engine. It generates 35Nm of torque at 7,250rpm whereas Himalayan's engine makes 32Nm torque at just 4000rpm. This gives you good torque at the twist of a throttle. Even if the Himalayan made 50HP it would have been at above 6000+ RPM which wouldn't have been of much use in conditions like water-wading or hill climbing.

You can read more about stroke ratio herehttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroke_ratio

Moreover to get more HP from the bike they'd have to use a liquid cooled engine which IMO, wouldn't have been feasible off-road, in case you had a fall and broke the coolant reservoir or something. Or if you really want 50bhp, I'd suggest you wait for the 750cc parallel twin that's rumoured to be developing.

I agree about the FI. Would have loved it on the Himalayan.
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Old 8th February 2016, 22:17   #581
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It's rather easy to say: it should have this and it should have that. More stuff means more ₹₹₹. We'll know soon whether it can get the job done well with what it offers. Until then, the balance is maintained.

For that price range, what kind of bike offers more power than the Himalayan? And in the same price range what other bike offers the gear, accessories, legacy, versatility that the Himalayan is promising to provide?
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Old 8th February 2016, 22:45   #582
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Default re: The Royal Enfield Himalayan, now launched!

Quote:
Originally Posted by naveenroy View Post
Aargh, they will come for you soon - the fans of the whatever-happens-metal-Royal-Enfield-bikes-are-the-best.
.
I know. I know. I have stirred a hornet's nest. :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by howler View Post
rajdoot 350 - questionable looks and performance !!? What ? I could say it's a matter of personal opinion but then you'd have to disagree with a sizeable population spread across the world. Oh btw it's the Yamaha rd350 that had a rajdoot sticker on the tank.
Howler, I actually know the difference between the ICONIC RD350 and the Rajdoot 350. The bike I am referring to is the one which was most used by milk-men to haul their huge milk cans around villages. Hope you can picture the bike I am referring to. If I remember correctly, Dharmendra appeared in the advert for this bike.

Believe me, I am a huge fan of the RD 350 and would never mistake this for the other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad View Post
A bike, that has a brand new engine, frame, wheels that are so different they have had to tie up with a tyre manufacturer to make rubber for them in a "special" size. Heck, even the accessories are brand new, from the scratch, never offered on any enfield EVER
Thanks for taking time out to read my post.

Now, coming to the bike. I think you and I both agree that this surely ain't a commuter bike. This is also not a utility bike, cos let's face it that concept is too alien here. This bike is a lifestyle bike.

My entire post was on how confused a message I was getting in just looking at the bike. Sure, they have a brand new engine. Sure, they have a brand new frame. Sure, they have other brand new bits and pieces.

But the question remains, do all these components go well with each other? I do not see any design philosophy in the bike.

The Thunderbird by them was purpose built to be a cruiser. The Continental GT was purpose built to be a wannabe cafe racer. At least they looked the part. But in this case I just don't get it!!

I hear people say that this bike was 5 years in the making (I could be wrong in this) Well, if this is the design that they could come up, then they do not deserve any accolades.

As the saying goes "First impression is the best impression", if just by looking at the bike I feel that the designers were in a confused state of mind then should I expect them to have fixed all the niggles that they are infamous for? I do not get that impression.

Royal Enfield has a very loyal following. They have a very good name as well. No matter how old or new a Bullet is, whenever I see one on the road, I admire it.

It is this passion for Bullets that is making me be so hard on the company. It is not as though this is a start-up. They have been in existence for a long-time and do not have any problem in accessing the best of the technologies. Then why can't they get the design right?


Quote:
Originally Posted by B O V View Post
Looks can be subjective, I agree. I feel like it looks just fine though
I know BOV, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But then this beholder just cannot see the beauty. :-)
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Old 8th February 2016, 23:22   #583
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Default re: The Royal Enfield Himalayan, now launched!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad View Post
What parts have been shared? Do tell
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeantownThinker View Post
Sure, they have a brand new engine. Sure, they have a brand new frame. Sure, they have other brand new bits and pieces.
Is the frame new? Not a version of the GT? Thought only suspension was new.

Interesting to see arguments from both sides, interesting since neither side has actually ridden the bike yet.

Just a few queries regarding the bike.

1. If the new engine does not have FI, and the logic being used is easy to repair(?!), by that same logic, why no kickstarter? No expectation of battery dying on a fully loaded bike going uphill?

2. How is the new engine going to cope with BS4 and higher emission norms? Or such trivial things are not important to the salt of the earth Himalayan?

3. Why no ABS? Even if the really lame excuse of no service in the Himalayas were to be used again, didn't think that brakes would fail completely even if the ABS "brain" dies. So, why not?

4. When ABS, emission control and therefore FI becomes mandatory by law, as early as 2017 perhaps, will that lead to a price increase for the "New" model? It should, only then would the first flock of guinea pigs feel better for rushing out and getting the R&D units.

How I wish this glorification of Mediocrity would end in this country.

Why is it wrong to strive for excellence? Because it cuts into profits? Pathetic.

Cheers

Ride Safe.
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Old 9th February 2016, 04:52   #584
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Default re: The Royal Enfield Himalayan, now launched!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arvin_86 View Post
I was hoping that auto expo might might give us a good choice to choose from. A sub 500 bike with decent touring abilities. But nothing concrete has come up so far.
  • BMW g310r might be launching late this year. No launch plans revealed.
  • MT-03, after all the raving(the most awaited bike, wasn't it), was nowhere to be seen.
  • And then there was this glimmer of hope(from couple of reports) that Honda might, after all these years, come up with CBR 300.
  • CS 400, the powerful cruiser sport from Bajaj seems to have lost its route, or are they waiting for KTM to come up with the 2017 bikes, so that 400s don't cannibalize KTM sales.
This so true! This is one price range where where are no bikes to chose from. Its either the KTM or RE. And with no new launches other than the himalayan, i guess both these companies will continue to laugh all the way to the bank.
Its sad that none of those bikes in the list was launched!
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Old 9th February 2016, 08:53   #585
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Default re: The Royal Enfield Himalayan, now launched!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeantownThinker View Post


Howler, I actually know the difference between the ICONIC RD350 and the Rajdoot 350. The bike I am referring to is the one which was most used by milk-men to haul their huge milk cans around villages. Hope you can picture the bike I am referring to. If I remember correctly, Dharmendra appeared in the advert for this bike.
OT:
Are you sure? Rajdoot 350 and RD350 are the same.
I've never seen a milkman on a RD350. Heck, that would be a sight!
I guess you were referring to the Rajdoot 175.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BeantownThinker View Post

I hear people say that this bike was 5 years in the making (I could be wrong in this) Well, if this is the design that they could come up, then they do not deserve any accolades.

I am not sure which other bike you are drawing a comparison with in this case., if you are.

What I would say is, however the bike looks, really does not matter as long as it gets the job done. Of course, the basic looks needs to be there to differentiate the segments and that is present on the Himalayan.

Now I would not say RE is marketing this bike as a full blown off roader, it is more of a touring bike with the Himalayas in mind. A soft roader would be more apt. But I do believe it is a full blown touring bike. Bits and pieces on the bike without been seen or experienced , is too early to say how good or bad it is. From what I know, they are going to launch this around the same price as the Conti GT and that is good pricing especially when the next bike we can get in the same type is lakhs away.

I feel at the end of the day, pricing is crucial and there are many who have been waiting for a adv tourer which is affordable and it so happened, RE did it first.

Last edited by tharian : 9th February 2016 at 08:58.
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