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Old 10th February 2016, 13:09   #616
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Default re: The Royal Enfield Himalayan, now launched!

Haha, I love the way the haters and lovers are going at each other. I personally have owned two RE bikes, and although am very enamored with the Himalayan and the way it looks, my previous experience with the brand's overall unreliability will probably keep me from owning this bike. Yes, I would definitely want to take one on rent from Delhi and ride to Leh, but that will be it. It has so many more nuts and bolts than an average RE, which means carrying so many more spares along with you. Given their reputation, everything will fall off, but you will still love this bike. And I don't expect them to do anything differently. Yes, their PR and Social Media team is excellent. They have a world-class website (at par with Triumph's), good intent, superb designers. All their products are drool machines. That is until you own one.

It is a love affair, and once you come out of its clutches, you don't want to experience it again.

What I would want from this bike are: the handlebar, the pannier holders, soft saddlebags. I am not a technical person who can open up a bike and put it back together. For people like me who want trouble-free solo riding, REs will always remain the last thing we want to touch. Let it prove itself first. Let the panniers and exhaust not fall off. Let the carb function properly in high altitudes. Let the instrument console consistently give accurate readings. I know of new Classic 500s with the instrument console giving wrong indication. The fuel indicator is a huge suspect. From makers of such bikes that are at the same time lovely and unreliable, can we really expect something different?

Give me one on rent any day. Wicked Ride.
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Old 10th February 2016, 13:19   #617
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Default re: The Royal Enfield Himalayan, now launched!

There are a lot of people who swear by the old Enfields (CI 350 & 500). Well they were great bikes (I owned a CI 350) but had their share of problems. I however like the direction Enfield is going in. We have the Standard 350/500, Electra & Classic 350/500 for those who like the traditional old Enfield look with modern mechanicals. And we have the Continental GT and Himalayan for those who want something different. I don't see why people have to criticise.
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Old 10th February 2016, 13:41   #618
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Default re: The Royal Enfield Himalayan, now launched!

To be fair i would wait for the bike to actually hit the roads and do a proper review and look at some ownership experience, before going to either extremes about it.

I have not owned RE before but used it for fair bit of time. Yes they have some quirks and tantrums, but has a unique character also. Now Himalayan looks like a decent progression, i for one really like the raw adventure bike looks. Yes a switchable ABS would have made this a great touring option, and a reliable EFI system made it more modern and hassle free to live with.

Obviously then the cost would climb towards 2.5 lakhs, which i think the company is trying to avoid for now.

Overall a great effort and we all should wait for the bike to come out being over critical or over passionate about it
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Old 10th February 2016, 13:53   #619
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Default re: The Royal Enfield Himalayan, now launched!

Just my $0.02:

Merits/demerits of the actual product aside, I have a feeling that this bike will turn out to be the Mahindra Thar of 2 wheelers. Majority of buyers would use it for normal intra-city riding and not take it on dirt trails even once during the duration of their ownership.

Disclaimer: RE & Thar fans, please don't rag me for the above comment. I am not a biker, leave alone a biking Guru. Just a poor old commuter, riding piddly motorcycles to and from office for the past 15 years. So please take my opinion with a fist of salt.

Cheers,
Vikram
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Old 10th February 2016, 14:14   #620
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Default re: The Royal Enfield Himalayan, now launched!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oreen View Post

It is a love affair, and once you come out of its clutches, you don't want to experience it again.
Going by the same analogy, I'd say - it is an abusive love affair and once you realise there are better bikes out there, you will never want to experience it again. What eh, orgy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oreen View Post
I am not a technical person who can open up a bike and put it back together. For people like me who want trouble-free solo riding, REs will always remain the last thing we want to touch.

From makers of such bikes that are at the same time lovely and unreliable, can we really expect something different?
These are the points I always mention when the question of RE comes up. I know it might be different with the Himalayan, but it is an RE after all.
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Old 10th February 2016, 15:53   #621
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Default re: The Royal Enfield Himalayan, now launched!

Quote:
Originally Posted by maker_of_things View Post
I don't get what you mean by "familiar". If you mean that it looks like a UCE, then sure it does. But I suspect most of the big capacity air-cooled long stroke engines do look like this.
I am not too fond of riding around on a rather expensive modern-day motorcycle with the knowledge that it's crankcase has remained essentially unchanged since the pre WWII era. When RE and the media spoke of an 'all new engine' I was hoping that the engine really is 'all new'. Never mind the cast iron and AVL/UCE changes. I believe RE has the wherewithal and the market to design and manufacture an all new engine from scratch. Given this belief, this is what I was hoping for.

This "carry over and build around an existing design" logic leads to compromises being made - ultimately it is us, the motorcycle starved-for-choices junta that pay for and ride these machines limitations and all.

Which brings me to this point:

Quote:
Originally Posted by maker_of_things View Post
Do you have something against 5 speed gearboxes? Gear ratios are far more important than the number of gears.
Do you mean that you'd be happier riding and owning a touring bike with a 5 speed gearbox instead of appreciating the possibility of it being offered with a 6th cog with overdrive? By that logic, why not 4 gears? After all, it comes down to gear ratios in your book.

How many of us have been in top gear at cruising speeds on a boring flat, long, straight highway and tried putting our vehicles into a (nonexistent) higher gear?

I was merely wondering if the crankcase of the LS410 has a limitation because of which it cannot accommodate a 6th gear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maker_of_things View Post
If you'd look closely, the exhaust header is not the same. It just looks like the old ones. Last time I checked, most of the motorcycles have their exhausts which run along the bottom of the frame.
I would have hoped that the header is routed away from the bottom such that it doesn't foul on sharp rocks. I'm thinking adventure bikes here. Oh, I did notice the aluminium bash plate but my concern stands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maker_of_things View Post
To quote you, "The Himalayan is hardly going to be ridden by the vast majority like CSS has ridden it". I think you've answered you're own question. It was a torture test. And to know what he *really* thinks about it, send him a PM on twitter or instagram. He usually replies.
You mean he's going to reply to a message from a total stranger and openly speak his mind about the failings he found in the Himalayan? As an official RE torture tester and brand ambassador? I would think not. Don't let this stop you though!

Quote:
Originally Posted by maker_of_things View Post
The prototypes seemed to work fine on the Himalayas, when a bunch of people from RE including some I personally know took it there. I doubt it should function any different on the production version.
Did the people you know personally personally check and compare the models, configuration, settings and jet sizes on the carbs during the rides in the Himalayas and compare each of them to rides at sea level? According to the International Standard Atmosphere tables, air pressure falls to 69% at 10000 feet AMSL and Air Density falls to 74%. As a consequence, engine power drops to less than 70% at 10000 feet AMSL. This is at standard ISA lapse rates and assuming peak engine condition. In the real world, things can (and will) get a lot worse.

Therefore, unless there's some electronic magic in the carbs of the test Himalayans, they, like any other carburetted motorcycle would be gasping for air with the fuel mixture being too rich at altitude.

My question stands: Is RE likely to offer the Himalayan with an optional high altitude kit? This is a rather simple fix that can (and should!) be offered by RE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by naveenroy View Post
Aargh, they will come for you soon - the fans of the whatever-happens-metal-Royal-Enfield-bikes-are-the-best.
This is absolutely hilarious! Very accurate prediction indeed. I did read this earlier but I just had to highlight these words. Thanks for the laughs.

Folks, I'm merely voicing my opinion and listing what I believe are shortcomings in the Himalayan. I'm probably as excited as you are and waiting for test rides to begin. This is a commendable effort by RE, but lets face it, the game has moved on and the bar has been raised - which in turn has raised my hopes and expectations.
.
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Old 10th February 2016, 17:04   #622
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Default re: The Royal Enfield Himalayan, now launched!

Quote:
Originally Posted by airfoil View Post
I am not too fond of riding around on a rather expensive modern-day motorcycle with the knowledge that it's crankcase has remained essentially unchanged since the pre WWII era. When RE and the media spoke of an 'all new engine' I was hoping that the engine really is 'all new'. Never mind the cast iron and AVL/UCE changes. I believe RE has the wherewithal and the market to design and manufacture an all new engine from scratch. Given this belief, this is what I was hoping for.
Mate who told you that the crankcase is from the WWII era on the Himalayan? For your information the WWII engine you are referring to is a Pushrod type engine while the one on the Himalayan is a compact OverHeadCamshaft engine.
Quote:
This "carry over and build around an existing design" logic leads to compromises being made - ultimately it is us, the motorcycle starved-for-choices junta that pay for and ride these machines limitations and all.
I would like to know what is the similarity of "carry over and build around an existing design"? What similarity do you see between the Himalayan and WWII era RE's?
Quote:
Do you mean that you'd be happier riding and owning a touring bike with a 5 speed gearbox instead of appreciating the possibility of it being offered with a 6th cog with overdrive? By that logic, why not 4 gears? After all, it comes down to gear ratios in your book.
Why not 5 gears mate on the Himalayan as the WWII era RE's run on 4 gears where 4th gear is very tall and is an overdrive gear. Have you heard of the legendary Kawasaki KLR650 motorcycle and Yamaha XT660R. That one mate has a 5 speed gearbox. Same is the case with the humongous Yamaha FJR1300 which comes with a 5 speed gearbox. Another examples are Suzuki DR200SE, DRZ400S, etc. and Yamaha TW200, XT250, etc. Even Rallye Dakar champion KTM 450 Rally Bike is equipped with a 5 speed transmission. There are many more such motorcycles which continue to come with a 5 speed gearbox. The fact is a long stroke engine has so much torque for the weight of the bike that 5 speed is more than enough. Besides this also helps the company to keep the costs low and the engine design compact.
Quote:
How many of us have been in top gear at cruising speeds on a boring flat, long, straight highway and tried putting our vehicles into a (nonexistent) higher gear?
Count me out as I have never felt the need for an additional gear on my 5 speed Tbird500 as well as Tbird AVL 350 while cruising.
Quote:
I was merely wondering if the crankcase of the LS410 has a limitation because of which it cannot accommodate a 6th gear.
Read my above statement.
Quote:
I would have hoped that the header is routed away from the bottom such that it doesn't foul on sharp rocks. I'm thinking adventure bikes here. Oh, I did notice the aluminium bash plate but my concern stands.
Have you seen the Suzuki V Strom mate with its exhaust pipe exposed at the bottom same is the case with Triumph Tiger and many other ADV tourers. The Bash Plate is there for a reason on these bikes. You can also see bash plates on hard core offroading Jeeps and other SUV's. The fact is they are there for a reason. Guess what?
Quote:
You mean he's going to reply to a message from a total stranger and openly speak his mind about the failings he found in the Himalayan? As an official RE torture tester and brand ambassador? I would think not. Don't let this stop you though!
Mate show some respect to this only rider in the country who has international acclaim in off road motorcycle competitions including Dakar rally. I am sure he would've shared about the failings with RE as they are the ones who are going to engineer and rectify the failings and not you and me or anyone else.

Quote:
Did the people you know personally personally check and compare the models, configuration, settings and jet sizes on the carbs during the rides in the Himalayas and compare each of them to rides at sea level? According to the International Standard Atmosphere tables, air pressure falls to 69% at 10000 feet AMSL and Air Density falls to 74%. As a consequence, engine power drops to less than 70% at 10000 feet AMSL. This is at standard ISA lapse rates and assuming peak engine condition. In the real world, things can (and will) get a lot worse.
This motorcycle has been extensively been tested in the Himalayas as witnessed by some of our members on this very forum. It is implied that the tuning would've been taking care of with respect to air/fuel mixture ratio. Those people who are closely associated with the development of the motorcycle should be thanked about sharing their information with us rather than being questioned. I can give them a benefit of doubt to those people as I haven't come across any other manufacturer(at least in India) who shares such information.
Quote:
Therefore, unless there's some electronic magic in the carbs of the test Himalayans, they, like any other carburetted motorcycle would be gasping for air with the fuel mixture being too rich at altitude.
Himalayan is not the only ADV tourer to come with a Carb there are many more mate and they do cross country touring without any issues per se.
Quote:
My question stands: Is RE likely to offer the Himalayan with an optional high altitude kit? This is a rather simple fix that can (and should!) be offered by RE.
What kind of a kit? Does any of the manufacturer offer a tuning kit for high altitude? I don't think so.
Quote:
This is absolutely hilarious! Very accurate prediction indeed. I did read this earlier but I just had to highlight these words. Thanks for the laughs.
I admire your sarcasm mate.
Quote:
Folks, I'm merely voicing my opinion and listing what I believe are shortcomings in the Himalayan. I'm probably as excited as you are and waiting for test rides to begin. This is a commendable effort by RE, but lets face it, the game has moved on and the bar has been raised - which in turn has raised my hopes and expectations.
Yes it sure has and RE is offering us something which can be affordable to the common man. Tell me one manufacturer who is giving us a factory ADV tourer with accessories in that price range? And yes you are free to have your expectations and hopes.
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Old 10th February 2016, 17:13   #623
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Default re: The Royal Enfield Himalayan, now launched!

This thread is going way away from what it was intended for. This has become "Hey look it's a RE, lets bash the hell out of it since it is assumed to be bad", without even riding this bike people have started assuming things.

As suggested by many here, why can't people just hold their swords until it actually comes out for test rides.
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Old 11th February 2016, 10:29   #624
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Default re: The Royal Enfield Himalayan, now launched!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad View Post
I had also promised you that I will check with my friend (the one closely associated with the project throughout its life cycle and has ridden it extensively) on whether or not the foot peg breaking was "edited in". Here's a word to word copy paste of my wts app conversation with him today:
__________________________________________________ ___________
Me - XYZ bhai, when the Himalayan videos were created, the foot peg breaking bit was included intentionally?

XYZ - Not actually Karan

Me - Missed some eagle eyes?

XYZ - But just after that Santosh went in pit and told the PD team and actually reworked on new design, which was later tested in the jump tests at the factory

Me - PD team matlab?

XYZ - Product development

Me - So now, Aal izz well?

XYZ - Ya ya

Me - Thanks bhai!

XYZ - Everyone seems to be comparing this with sub litre / litre class adventure bikes on social media and developing a negative mindset, but they forget that its a sub 2 lac bike

Me - So true. I know of more than one example of such geniuses

XYZ - Its not meant for rallies or mad power. Its something maybe even our dads can ride for hours on a trail
__________________________________________________ ___________

Hope this helps
Urban_Nomad mate thanks for confirming this as is confirmed by others who are involved with the development of the motorcycle which is posted a few pages back. There is no meaning in wasting one's energy and time reasoning with sceptics who label our posts as jingoist fanboyism without having an iota of information or confirmation from the development team first hand who is actually associated with testing and developing the motorcycle.

Believe me mate while doing offroad trails on my RE Standards and Tbird's I always felt the need for having a true dedicated ADV Tourer because of the limitations I found in those motorcycles. I didn't take them on those trails on purpose it was just that I hit those trails while venturing into the unknown. It looks like I had some kind of a telepathy with the RE team who developed this motorcycle. LOL!

Let's focus on the other aspects of the Himalayan the front suspension looks like an offset fork which in geometrical terms improves straight line stability and turning. Also the slim tank makes it easier to stand on the foot pegs while manoeuvring through those bone jarring offroad trails. The rear monoshock on an ADV tourer is actually a bliss considering it utilizes a linkage to connect to the swingarm which, by and large, gets rid of the torque and will supply better handling and breaking. According to my limited engineering mind I think the mono-shocks actually helps in a longer travel vis a vis twin shocks also the geometrical fact that longer twin shocks will make the bike too tall to sit on. Exactly the reason why despite having a 220mm of ground clearance and an ADV stance the seat height still remains the same as CGT. Truly ingenious IMO and a boon for an average height Indian rider. It also makes the motorcycle look sleeker, lighter, narrower and less bulbous.

I am closely watching the Himalayan and making my own list of things it has and their purpose and design philosophy. Currently I am analysing the suspension part. I will keep posting my observations as and how I get time.
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Old 11th February 2016, 11:27   #625
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Default re: The Royal Enfield Himalayan, now launched!

Haven't posted in this thread for a while but have been reading all the comments with amusement.

It’s one thing to be sceptical about a new bike but what is transpiring here on this thread just boggles the mind. Take a chill pill folks, give the bike a chance. Theorising about potential flaws and dissing designers of a very successful motorcycle company and pro riders is just plain stupid.

No bike at ANY price point is ever without its sets of flaws and niggles.

Moreover, every dual sport bike, the category to which Himalayan belongs to, is always about compromises - between off road goals and tarmac usage. There is no fixed recipe or template for a dual sport ADV bike.

I did watch the launch presentations and took a very close look at the bike at RE’s flagship store. As an RE owner I have to say that they have done a fantastic job with the attention to detail and design. The build quality appears much better and very reassuring compared to other recent products.

In my mind I still hesitate to call it a real dual sport due to the contradictory specs - power wise it is in the light weight category but wet weight wise it sits squarely in the medium to heavy weight ADV bike category. This confusion will continue till I get a test ride.

That said, I suspect that RE has once again hit bull’s eye wrt to the power/weight/price ratio as far as typical Indian riding conditions are concerned. Do consider the following:

Indian roads have one of the lowest average speed ratings globally at about 22 to 30 kmph. It is a fact that the kind of riding conditions we have, not even 50% of the current crop of premium bikes’ power is ever put to use. That is, unless one is on a death wish with no regards for safe speed limits or to the safety of others on the streets. This has also been amply demonstrated by several recent super bike accidents in the country.

So ‘cruising comfortably at 120kmph all day long’ is a myth which exists only in the minds of wishful Indian bikers. There really is no part of the country where this can be safely done on a consistent basis, city to city. People do need to wake up and smell the coffee.

Secondly, I spent some ‘quality time’ with the two variants of Triumph Tiger recently on off road trails and realised that all that power & technology is actually not of much use on steep muddy up slopes or in loose dirt or jagged rocks. It was a miracle that I came out unharmed or without 4 people lifting the bike from over me in those sessions. Although I'm 6 feet tall yet the bikes felt intimidating. In fact I secretly wished for the bike to be 30-40 kg lighter.

How the Himalayan will eventually perform only time and a test ride will tell. Till then I hope better sense will prevail on this thread.
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Old 11th February 2016, 12:35   #626
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Default re: The Royal Enfield Himalayan, now launched!

Aesthetically I assume the Himalayan is lot like the Triumph Tiger. Yes it does not have the electronic aids. However, it does cost about 10L or more cheaper, has decent power and torque numbers in Indian standards and that price range, tire size, optional accessories, good seat height, decent ground clearance, discs on both wheels, I believe more suspension travel than the Tiger(?), 10000 kms service interval, has more range than the Tiger - (Tiger approx. 400 kms with 20L fuel tank, Himalayan as claimed would have 450 kms with 15L tank), is lighter in weight so presumably easier in maneuvering. Of course the biggest concerns I have is the service and the quality, which I would know only after I see it in person.
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Old 11th February 2016, 16:59   #627
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Default re: The Royal Enfield Himalayan, now launched!

Nice article by Lemmy from RevZilla on the Himalayan. Makes for a good read.

Link to article
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Old 11th February 2016, 18:10   #628
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Default re: The Royal Enfield Himalayan, now launched!

I for one am looking forward to the Himalayan. It's the main reason why I've been holding off on buying a new bike. As a Royal Enfield owner, I can confidently say that I have more apprehensions about the bike than an RE hater, but I don't want to jump the gun before I've even seen or touched the bike in the metal, let alone ride it.

Two reasons why I feel the Himalayan will be a genuine effort:

- Royal Enfield will be targeting global markets with this. The 'made for the Himalayas' approach is smart and will be appealing even to a rider who has no intention of ever going there. That being said, the build and quality of the bike's components will be of the essence, perhaps more important than the performance. Any kind of failure or mess up may be passed of as "character" here, but try that in Europe and you'll be facing a lawsuit faster than you can spell the word "recall".

- Look through the niche marketing campaign and you'll see that Royal Enfield has ticked many of the right boxes (at least on the surface) - low end torque, basic/minimalist construction to make it easy to fix and run, long suspension travel, lightweight (relatively) and a function over form design. Even simple things like fuel adulteration have been taken into account.

The bike has been made to survive in conditions seen in emerging markets like India, but its appeal has a strong chance of holding up even in established markets. Most adventure tourers are electronically complicated, expensive and daunting in size even for tall riders. The Himalayan has the potential to not only access a new audience for RE, but for the segment altogether.

Last edited by Tushar : 11th February 2016 at 18:15.
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Old 11th February 2016, 18:39   #629
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Default re: The Royal Enfield Himalayan, now launched!

I have ‘love and hate’ relationship with Enfield from last 15+ years, owned few models (1972 classic, AVL350 and 97 CI 350) and still ride an Enfield (97 CI 350 Machismo). I have ridden most places across India except north east and down south on my Bobby Rajdoot, Shogun, REs, Yamaha and Splendor.
Let me give my honest and NEUTRAL perspective.
I stopped long distance riding 5-6 years back as I moved on to 4x4 offroading sports, barring few 300-400 kms ride once in a while. Last year, my desire to start riding long distances specially remote places (Bhuta, Bihar, North East, UK, J&K etc.). When I started my hunt, I realized dearth of AFFORDABLE adventure bike. Most of the bikes available in the market are either way out of my budget (Triumph Tiger) or under powered (Hero Impulse). At one point I was even contemplating to plonk Karizma engine into Impulse and start my exploration trips. Though there were few strong cross country tourers (CBR 250R, Ninja 300/650, KTM 200/390) but my only grouse was all the fiber (body parts) they had. What I wanted was a rugged minimalistic bike with as less electronics as it can and which I can thrash in offroad trails without even thinking cost of broken indicator, light, foot peg etc.
There might be few scenarios where I would transport my bike to far off transit points to save time and any damage to bike (90% times somethings brakes during transportation) should be cheap and easy to repair. I also didn’t want to stuck in a scenario with failed electronics (fuel pump, ECM etc.), similar to what we face very frequently during offroading weekends/competitions. Even if bike achieves 110 kmph on India highway comfortably, I would be more than happy as I don’t have balls to ride faster than these death trap highways.
For me ‘Himalayan’ ticks most of the boxes and if RE has learnt from previous AC fiasco, I would buy this bike soon.


Regards,
Shubhendra Singh
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Old 12th February 2016, 08:46   #630
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Himalayan has started to reach the dealers.....
https://www.rushlane.com/royal-enfie...-12180719.html
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