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Old 3rd June 2015, 15:36   #31
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

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I have taken up this matter in a one on one email with the Head of Service for KTM in India.

Have known him for many many years now. Old school guy. Am confident he will see where things are going before it is too late.
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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
You guys can share your opinions and travails from across the country here.

However, have shared the link of the thread with the Service Head, so hopefully even if he does not find the time, some down the line guy would be deputed to do the needful.
Happy to tell you that I received a prompt reply. Happier still that he did take the time to read the posts and understand the issues being faced.

While the contents of the communication are of a one on one nature and therefore necessitate the respect of the implied confidentiality, it does seem that the focus remains strong on the part of the company.

I know him well and know that he travels a great deal and is very hands on from his earlier days. And he does interact a great deal with the riders, so am equally sure that our grumbles and peeves have not been lost on him. He is a seasoned veteran of the industry and not just an MBA-type, which helps.

There are definitely issues at the shop floor level of the service stations, and not all service stations and technicians are equal. What I have personally seen is that the attention to detail comes from the top and trickles down. If the manager (and his supervisor) are lax, then it percolates down. And they in turn are affected by the attitude of the dealership ownership they report to.

So yes, its an ongoing process, but the biggest positive from the exercise is that we have a gentleman at the top who without letting on too much (!) does concede that there can be issues but that they are as committed as before to making sure that things are looked at carefully. And that the perception of them not being as careful as earlier is an incorrect one.

The other positive is that he's willing to listen and take criticism without getting defensive, and that is often equally down to the person as it is to the pervading corporate culture he is used to operating within.

Cheers, Doc
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Old 3rd June 2015, 15:44   #32
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

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Originally Posted by munchy_cool View Post
called up the service center for an update on my bike, they are waiting for a 2012 D200 to arrive for service so that they can try swapping the ECU and see if the issue remains.
..
Wonder who the lucky one would be whose Duke will have its ECU taken out for no good reason and then put back, without his knowledge ! Bajaj ! Seriously ?
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Old 3rd June 2015, 15:52   #33
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

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Wonder who the lucky one would be whose Duke will have its ECU taken out for no good reason and then put back, without his knowledge ! Bajaj ! Seriously ?
exactly my point, a service center should have ECU's for testing purposes. They only need to stock one per model which should come down to 8 ECU's (1 for the 390 and 1 for the 200, 1 for each year 2012-2015).
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Old 3rd June 2015, 18:52   #34
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Originally Posted by munchy_cool View Post
exactly my point, a service center should have ECU's for testing purposes. They only need to stock one per model which should come down to 8 ECU's (1 for the 390 and 1 for the 200, 1 for each year 2012-2015).
I have worked with maruti for 2 years and with hyundai for another 3, in their branded used car warranty department, where I had to work with the service stations of all the dealers under me. From my experience, using one part from a car to check the malfunction of another is nothing new, atleast at the dealers I had associated with. In fact it has been used as part of diagnostic checks for a long time, that it is almost an official method. It is nothing new.
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Old 9th June 2015, 15:38   #35
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

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Originally Posted by mithunvvijayan View Post
I have worked with maruti for 2 years and with hyundai for another 3, in their branded used car warranty department, where I had to work with the service stations of all the dealers under me. From my experience, using one part from a car to check the malfunction of another is nothing new, atleast at the dealers I had associated with. In fact it has been used as part of diagnostic checks for a long time, that it is almost an official method. It is nothing new.
Just because it happens doesn't make it OK. Its unethical IMO. You cannot be using a customers car/ parts for testing. And no it is not company policy , go ahead and ask your service centre to show you where it is mentioned.
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Old 9th June 2015, 15:48   #36
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

Finally I lost my patience and wrote an e-mail to KTM CEO Stefan Pierer copying in his secretary Nicole, Amit Nandi (Senior Vice President and India Head - KTM Motorcycles Unit, Bajaj Auto Ltd) and Rahul Bajaj (Chairman, Bajaj Auto Limited.) . Now the Area Service Manager of NCR region wants to talk to me .

Below is the e-mail, name of the serivce center has been removed on purpose but is present in the original e-mail.



Quote:
Hello Stefan,


How are you doing? This is my second e-mail to you as the first one regarding KTM Duke 200 in India was forwarded to Amit Nandi (copied in the e-mail) by Nicole (copied in the e-mail) and guess what, Mr Amit did not even care to reply to the e-mail or even forward it to someone who could help me out. Well, he is a busy man I guess and doesn't have time to solve queries from Indian Duke owners. Anyways, that's a thing of the past.


The purpose of this e-mail is to ask for help regarding my 2012 D200 which has been standing at Bajaj Pro-Biking Service center in "my city" for the last 8 days, why this e-mail is addressed to you is because I am hoping that you would help me out and to also let you know the ground reality of Bajaj service centers.


So,on Saturday May 30th my 2012 D200 stalled on the road with an error message "high coolant temperature" and didn't start even after letting it cool down for a good 1-2 hours. I got the bike towed at 9pm in the night. On the morning of Sunday May 31st the bike was again towed to Bajaj Pro-Biking Service center as it would not start even after a night of cooling, the error message "high coolant temperature" persisted. Please note the coolant level was between min and max at all times.


At the service center I also asked the guys to service the bike (regular maintenance like engine oil change, coolant re-fill etc) once the issue is fixed. On Monday I get a call that the bike has been serviced but the error message persists.


"Really, you guys serviced my bike first and then you plan to look into the main issue for which the bike was brought", was my reaction. Anyways, mistakes happen.


On Wednesday I get a call again "Sir, we have checked everything including the wiring harness and it's fine but the problem persists". I ask what's the solution, and I was shocked when I heard the solution.


"Sir, we will wait for another 2012 D200 to come in for service. Swap the ECU's and see if it's an ECU problem. If it is we will let you know and you will have to submit an advance for the ECU which will take a week to arrive".


And guess what, even after 5 days the service center is still waiting for a 2012 D200 to come in for service so that they can swap the ECU's. So, you have a Pro-Biking service center and they do not have the ECU for a 2012 D200 to check and diagnose where the fault lies. God forbid, if it's something else in the bike which is toasting the ECU you might have two 2012 D200 in the service center with fried ECU's. One would obviously be mine and the other one would be of the good soul whose D200 ECU would have been swapped on my bike to diagnose the issue.


My D200 is my daily commuter and it's really disappointing and frustrating to see Bajaj service center's not having parts to diagnose the issue. So, I have a few questions for you as well as all the Bajaj people copied in the e-mail (if they have time to read the e-mail) :-


1. If the service center does not get a 2012 D200 for service for the next one month, I am screwed for a month because they are not capable enough to diagnose the issue.
2. Is it a normal practice to swap parts from one bike to another to diagnose issues, because trust me I am never taking my bike to that service center once it's fixed. What if they fry something on my bike in the process of checking another D200.
3. Are service centers not required to stock ECU's for diagnostics. I mean for the Naked Dukes each service center would need 8 ECU's (1 each for the D200 and D390, models 2012-2015). With the RC models just launched make that 2 for the RC's. Makes a total of 10 ECU's. If they are required to have ECU's then are there any checks conducted by Bajaj because in my case the service center does not have the ECU for 2012 D200.
4. Why in the world would you not fix the main issue first, will servicing a bike (changing engine oil, topping up coolant, changing rear disc pads) in any way fix the main issue for which the bike was brought to the service center.

Now for my request, can someone from KTM or Bajaj please guide the peeps at the Service Center on how to diagnose the issue. It's really frustrating to have your only mode of transport in a non-working condition for more than a week, what's more frustrating is that no progress is being made and we are dependent on another 2012 D200 to arrive for service.


Thanks
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Old 9th June 2015, 17:23   #37
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Originally Posted by munchy_cool View Post
Finally I lost my patience and wrote an e-mail to KTM CEO Stefan Pierer copying in his secretary Nicole, Amit Nandi (Senior Vice President and India Head - KTM Motorcycles Unit, Bajaj Auto Ltd) and Rahul Bajaj (Chairman, Bajaj Auto Limited.) . Now the Area Service Manager of NCR region wants to talk to me .
Please do update on how this pans out. It will be really disappointing if KTM screws us Indian customers over on this. I love my 390, and its been a pleasure to own it so far (nearing two years now). It will be really scary if service centre incompetence of this magnitude is allowed to creep into what is otherwise a great brand with amazing products.
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Old 10th June 2015, 12:06   #38
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

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Please do update on how this pans out. It will be really disappointing if KTM screws us Indian customers over on this. I love my 390, and its been a pleasure to own it so far (nearing two years now). It will be really scary if service centre incompetence of this magnitude is allowed to creep into what is otherwise a great brand with amazing products.
So got a call from the NCR service manager and he says bike has been fixed. The issue was with the wiring harness and they have test driven the bike for 25-30 kms and it looks good.

However if the problem arises again then the wiring harness would have to be replaced. I guess they are playing safe by mentioning the above.

He also assured me that he would look into why the guys told me they would swap the ECU from another bike as that is not a normal practice. They do have tools to diagnose if the ECU is at fault. Somehow I do not trust him but I have no other option.

Coming to the point of stocking ECU's, as per him stocking 10 ECU's would cost the service center 1.5 lakh rupees and the service center cannot afford it as they have a revenue of 1.5 lakh per month. Hence it's not feasible for them to stock ECU's for testing purposes. I was even more surprised to hear this coming from a Manager, why on earth does the service center even exist if you cannot stock ECU's for testing. Even if the revenue is 1.5 lakh per month I am the customer and it's not my problem if the service center cannot afford it. Why should I understand your problem related to money, I am paying you for the service. I even told him that the service center is the only one in my city and as per me they should stock ECU's but he kept giving me the same thing about feasibility and expenses.

Even though he apologized 2 times on behalf of KTM I am still not satisfied with the response. Bajaj needs to re-look into service related issues else they might be looking at reclining KTM sales because of poor after sales service.
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Old 10th June 2015, 12:25   #39
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

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Even though he apologized 2 times on behalf of KTM I am still not satisfied with the response. Bajaj needs to re-look into service related issues else they might be looking at reclining KTM sales because of poor after sales service.
Good to hear that the issue is fixed.

There's a strong possibility that this was driven by pressure from the top. I just hope that the top management should not have to light fires under people every time service centres mess around with customers like this.
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Old 10th June 2015, 14:56   #40
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

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Good to hear that the issue is fixed.
just came back from the service center. As soon as I entered I could see the change in behavior towards me. No smiles when I shook hands with the service guy and KTM service incharge, both of them know me by name and face as I have been getting the D200 serviced there for more than 2 years now.

I could sense that they had been given a good one from the NCR service area manager, I did feel sorry for them as the intent of the e-mail was not to take off the smiles off there faces.

Anyways, was taken to meet the service center manager and he was also very apologetic. I did tell them that the logic given by the NCR service manager for not having testing ECU's in stock (lack of funds) was not acceptable to me. To my surprise they told me they have ECU's for all KTM's except for the 2012 D200, I did tell them that they should escalate the matter and get one soon. Also, asked them not to take the e-mail in a negative way but learn from it.

I also said I would drop another e-mail on top of my old e-mail and tell Mr Amit Nandi and Mr Bajaj what the NCR service manager told me "we cannot stock 10 ECU's of Duke variants (for diagnostic purposes) as they will cost 1.5 lakh rupees and the revenue of the service center itself is 1.5 lakh per month." This statement to a customer is a very poor one and does not throw the right impression. I am coming to an authorized service center and not to another road side bike garage. They requested me not to do so but I guess it does need to be reported to the higher ups by someone and let that guy be me.

As for the root cause of the issue it was an issue in the wiring. Total cost incurred was 1963.00, here's the breakup:-

Quote:
paid service - 598
chain cleaning - 114
wiring repair - 285

mirror - 238
filer element - 284
oil filer - 74
fine fuel filter - 100
spark plug - 196
fuse 10A - 18.60
hexagon nut - 2.81
bolt flange - 2.49
fuse 15A - 28.82
cable tie lock - 20.79

Last edited by munchy_cool : 10th June 2015 at 14:58.
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Old 11th June 2015, 13:20   #41
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

An update on my D200, drove the bike from Noida to Gurgaon yesterday evening in peak hour traffic and no issues what so ever so far. One eye was on the heat meter and it never went into the last 4 bars.
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