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Old 29th July 2015, 10:32   #76
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Default re: I bought a Suzuki Shogun to Restore. UPDATE: Back with me again!

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Originally Posted by Nilay View Post
Hello pramod, I have one question.

How can i convert my 4 Speed to 5 speed and what are the parts needed for up graduation ?
This is little off topic for this thread but lets first list out the differences between the 4 speed and the 5 speed. I will list the 5 Speed parts only.

1. For the looks the side covers for the engine are different(5 speed gearbox can fit in the old case as well)
2. The crank is different
3. Gearbox is slightly different apart from the 5th cog(1,2 & 3rd gears are same in 4S and 5S) the 4th gear ratio is different(if you can procure 4th and 5th cogs separately you can re use 1,2 & 3rd gear)
4. the cylinder is different, the port durations are different from the 4S cylinder, though both are 132cc.
5. The head is different, the squish area is where it different, if there is a good mech who can dial the squish in, you can have your 4S head modified else get a 5S head
6. The carburettor is slightly different, the 4s carb can be used with up-jetting.
7. The speedo meter is different(has the 5th gear speed indicated(unless you are very particular about the speedo you can retain your old speedo)
8. Last the sprocketing is different
9. Some 5speeders came with a catcon silencers(don't go this route if you want power)
10. the one which came with the cat con silencer had a different L bracket in the right side.
11. some 5 speeders came with a disk brake(not really sure if it was only the RXZ 5 speed)
12. some 5 speeders came with alloys
13. the indicators were different in some 5 speeders

Rest of the bike including the chassis and body panels are identical

I hope this answers your questions regarding conversion.

PS: The rx speedo is very optimistic, unless you are using a radar gun you cannot get the actual speed, but a 5 Speed bike with chambers and porting can be a RD killer, I have seen a team carbon bike(rxz) doing above 140KM/H

Pramod

Last edited by pramodkumar : 29th July 2015 at 10:35.
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Old 29th July 2015, 12:14   #77
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Default re: I bought a Suzuki Shogun to Restore. UPDATE: Back with me again!

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Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
(not really sure if it was only the RXZ 5 speed)
Nicely Put Pramod, to the best of my knowledge RXZ was the only bike that came with disc break and the RX 135 5 speed came with regular drum brakes.
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Old 29th July 2015, 12:20   #78
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Default re: I bought a Suzuki Shogun to Restore. UPDATE: Back with me again!

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Nicely Put Pramod, to the best of my knowledge RXZ was the only bike that came with disc break and the RX 135 5 speed came with regular drum brakes.
Thank you, I always was doubtful regarding this, The carburettor body is also different but with so many mish-mash of parts, originality is very difficult to attain.

Pramod
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Old 29th July 2015, 12:30   #79
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Default re: I bought a Suzuki Shogun to Restore. UPDATE: Back with me again!

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Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
The carburettor body is also different but with so many mish-mash of parts, originality is very difficult to attain.

Pramod
My 2 cents on the carbs

5 Speed machines used '4TL4 20' VM20 carb with Main Jet = 135 & Pilot Jet = 15.0 (Slightly a leaner setting carb)

4 Speed machines used '4TL 01' VM22 carb with Main Jet = 165 & Pilot Jet = 17.5 (Both RX135 4-Speed/RXG)

5 Speed Machines can actually turn lethal if you can source a flat slide carb like the TM24 and compromise a bit on the low end running.
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Old 29th July 2015, 20:18   #80
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Default re: I bought a Suzuki Shogun to Restore. UPDATE: Back with me again!

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Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
This is little off topic for this thread but lets first list out the differences between the 4 speed and the 5 speed. I will list the 5 Speed parts only.
Got it.
Ok. You will start new Rx-135 thread and i will share my work with your thread. By the way my bore is rated at 18.5 bhp and i have ordered the new 3KA series head to match with. My target is to achieve 130 KMPH topspeed.

Last edited by ampere : 30th July 2015 at 07:21. Reason: Removed bulk of quoted post
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Old 29th July 2015, 20:30   #81
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Default re: I bought a Suzuki Shogun to Restore. UPDATE: Back with me again!

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Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
3. Gearbox is slightly different apart from the 5th cog(1,2 & 3rd gears are same in 4S and 5S) the 4th gear ratio is different(if you can procure 4th and 5th cogs separately you can re use 1,2 & 3rd gear)

Pramod
What about Main Axle assembly and Shift cam assembly? They are different or same ?
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Old 30th July 2015, 00:09   #82
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Default re: I bought a Suzuki Shogun to Restore. UPDATE: Back with me again!

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Originally Posted by Nilay View Post
What about Main Axle assembly and Shift cam assembly? They are different or same ?
Thanks for pointing it out, the shift cam is different, forgot to list that. The 4 speed one can be cut and modified but it's a tedious task

Pramod
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Old 25th August 2015, 13:13   #83
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Default re: I bought a Suzuki Shogun to Restore. UPDATE: Back with me again!

Its sad to put this update so soon, but I had to let the shogun go, this was a gem, but there was this extremely passionate college kid who convinced me to give it to him

He was exited since the day I said yes. I waited for 3 weeks for him to sell his unicorn, but that gave me enough time to spend with the bike post restoration. The tyres were funky, my thought was to get Michelin sirac Street for both front(275 X 18) and rear (3.00 X 18), the tyres were not available and I was asked to wait.

Then the D day arrived, the night before D day I spent time till 12 AM washing and polishing the bike. At 11 The college kid arrives with his brother in a CBR 250, fully prepares with riding jackets and helmets. I knew he would take good care of the bike, we chit chatted and soon the guy was on his way.

After about 45 minutes I get a call from him that the bike broke down, my hear sank, thinking how this could happen and preliminary probing pointed out that the bike starts and idles and when the throttle is twisted nothing happens, I asked him if the throttle cable is broken and he confirmed my suspicion. I asked him to go to the nearest spare shop and buy a replacement cable and take the bike to the nearest shop to get it changed.

I never realised this would be the biggest mistake of the day later. I get a call from the mechanic, he tells me that the clutch side oil seal is gone the silencer is blocked with the engine oil , he also told me that the silencer needs to be cut and burned to clear the oil which seeped into the combustion chamber due to this faulty oil seal, I asked him what the solution and he said it will take 2 days to do all the repairs and would cost 2500. I realized the kid will have the most important lesson of 2 stroke biking the same day, not to mention how his conservative parents would kill him for selling his almost new unicorn and buying this 20 year old junk. I was far away with my wife but I decided to help the kid. So I went to him and I see this con artist telling me how the clutch oil(he was referring it to as engine oil) is old and it was carelessly re filled. First question I ask him is if he knows what bike it is, he said yes. I have had the same bike for 2 years and I was working in the TVS factory in Chennai(those credentials are enough to fool anyone), I started the bike and it was not running right and fluttering when accelerated and the fuel filer was blocked.

I immediately asked the kid to get me a new samurai filter and I removed the carb by then and this mech slowly comes and is looking at what I do. I removed the bowl and started cleaning all the debris and cleaned the carb fully, the guy first asked me to pick all the tools I needed, was now helping me by getting the tools I wanted himself. I swapped the filter and started the bike. it came back to life and started running right. I asked the mech what bike was his speciality and he said hero Honda.

I asked him how he came up with a 2500 repair cost without knowing the root cause, what he did in and say in the next 5 minutes was extremely funny.

So gents, you all know who killed the 2 Stroke bikes. yes the stupid mech who does not know the difference between the 4 stroke and 2 stroke bikes. most idiotic mechs can do an oil change and sparkplug change, so you will have at least a dozen happy customers who would recommend them. There will be some grease monkey in their garage who will have at least 250 gms nuts and bolts to spare as soon as he fits an engine back, those nuts and bolts didn't come in a buy one get one offer but were there for a purpose, they shamelessly tell you that the bike is old and you need to upgrade. one word of advise, Chose your mech wisely, ensure this guy has at the minimum seen your kind of the bike, if you want to prevent the heart ache later, think of yourself as the father of a teenage daughter who is going on her first date.

This was one primary reason I decided to grease my hands and learn stuff my self.

I am sad I had to let this one go, but Dhanush ( the college kid ) who by the way calls her "kate" will ensure she stays young for couple of decades to come at the least

Pramod

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 4th September 2015 at 13:38. Reason: Smileys = 2 per post.
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Old 4th September 2015, 09:18   #84
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Default re: I bought a Suzuki Shogun to Restore. UPDATE: Back with me again!

The bike left me, but its in safe hands. some recent pics

I bought a Suzuki Shogun to Restore. UPDATE: Back with me again!-11222947_182137472118111_3309509920462482249_n.jpg
I bought a Suzuki Shogun to Restore. UPDATE: Back with me again!-11928726_182137355451456_1195765023504842421_n.jpg
I bought a Suzuki Shogun to Restore. UPDATE: Back with me again!-11986442_182137542118104_4976841427515691345_n.jpg
I bought a Suzuki Shogun to Restore. UPDATE: Back with me again!-11990445_182137505451441_2902776421541800762_n.jpg

Unfortunately it left a void in my life, I am getting another one soon and this one will be restored better than how it came from the factory, so my hunt begins. I will be looking for shoguns with clear tittle and preferably in run down condition so that I don't have to flinch an eye while replacing anything and everything.

Pramod
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Old 4th September 2015, 10:17   #85
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Default re: I bought a Suzuki Shogun to Restore. UPDATE: Back with me again!

Every restoration requires pain and passion. The main reason I decided to sell this, as someone convinced me that he is genuinely interested in this bike and I never got the fulfilment I get, when I look at my completed project. No expenses were spared, I got 3 set of meters to get the meters working. But I was not happy with the end result, something was missing. So I decided to let it go.

I never though it would hit me, but this was the first bike I bought with my money, I was a lot more attached to this bike than I thought I was, I realized that when the kid rode her away, I was in a foul mood for 2-3 days.

So I told myself, I will buy another one, some day. I am still regretting my sale, that is the reason why this thread is still active.

Pramod

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 4th September 2015 at 14:01. Reason: Cleaning up!
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Old 4th September 2015, 10:53   #86
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Default re: I bought a Suzuki Shogun to Restore. UPDATE: Back with me again!

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Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
Every restoration requires pain and passion.
Pramod mate I agree with you to the T. I have myself restored two Royal Enfield Bullets and believe I have gone through the same pain and passion that you have gone through. Restoration jobs require tons of patience and love for the motorcycle in question. A lot of blood and sweat goes into restoring a motorcycle, especially battered and abandoned ones. It took me close to 2 years to restore my 1969 B1 Standard Bullet 350cc. Those two years nearly tested my patience and at one point I even thought of giving it up. But the end result wiped off all those trying times I had while restoring it. The sense of achievement of bringing the motorcycle to showroom condition cannot be described in words. I am sure you will have the same feeling as I did. I am now looking at restoring my 1961 G2 Standard Bullet 350cc.

Quote:
I never though it would hit me, but this was the first bike I bought with my money, I was a lot more attached to this bike than I thought I was, I realized that when the kid rode her away, I was in a foul mood for 2-3 days.

So I told myself, I will buy another one, some day. I am still regretting my sale, that is the reason why this thread is still active.
Mate I faced an exactly similar situation like yours. It was a time when I felt selling off one of my Standard Bullet 350 (1996 model) would fetch me some money to restore one of my other vintage RE. I told my mechanic to start looking for customers. One day I got a call from the mechanic and he said he's got one customer who is ready to buy the motorcycle. I told the mechanic I will come to your garage in another 10-15 mins. I went down with the keys and had a look at my Standard Bullet. There was some magnetic pull I felt in my heart and felt like my stomach is rolling from inside and my brain is going into a spin. I somehow started the motorcycle and stopped it immediately after a few seconds. Next thing was I found myself on the phone telling the mechanic to call off the deal . I went home and came back again. This time I started the motorcycle and took it to a secluded place and caressed it while consoling myself as well as the motorcycle that both of us will never leave each other. This might sound too emotional and crazy to some people. But I did it.

BTW your restoring job of the 2 Stroker Suzuki Shogun looks top notch. Brings back nostalgia and old memories associated with it.

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 4th September 2015 at 14:02. Reason: Quoted post edited.
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Old 4th September 2015, 13:42   #87
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Default re: I bought a Suzuki Shogun to Restore. UPDATE: Back with me again!

My eyes are full of tears, the reason I post these here is because I don't get any appreciation from home or rather they are against what I do. My accident in May this year, which took me through 3 painfully long surgeries had added to that. People have no idea how many times I have skipped all three meals to get something small done, I learned wiring the bike by not paying money or observing the electrician work, but instead offering to help him for weekends, imagine what my wife would have though about my decision of skipping the latest movie or a family outing since I was busy learning some crap that too after holding a white collar job, I sleep at 1-2 AM and return to work at 8:30 AM, I usually keep myself busy in the evenings to go to shops, most of my weekends are spend in running bike related chores. It was never about money or fame and I am sure if all the people I deal with will have tbhp handles would vouch for that right away.

I will surly, but like I said some part of me went with that bike, the only way to get that back is not getting the bike back but instead getting a different one. I never regret not being able to buy them out of showrooms, especially since now we have an option of owning multiple bikes, which would have never worked out in an era when these were available at showrooms.

I know restoring 2 strokes is the in thing nowadays, and I am not just flowing with the tide. I get requests from co-workers to build them bikes, most of which I loose money on since, I cannot ask them money for the fuel or phone calls or those little items we buy once in a while, and trust me it will run into a significant amount if its added up. I don't want to be branded as a fix it flip it guy.

I never liked Suzukis, till I rode a shogun personally, this one had a lot of gremlins, papers were the only thing which was in order, I am not going to get into listing those, but it did take a toll on me, especially when you turn your subordinates vacation into a part collecting expedition.

I was pissed since it gave me a head ache than pleasure, but the end result was fantastic, it started to lift off even in second gear, I was not used to that from a bike of its weight class, it was the pure hooliganism it offered that made me a complete fan. I also realised that when it went, I was very sad. I will buy one, I surly will. I was not able to do certain justice to this, I wanted to keep it for some more days and do a bit more TLC, the kid who bought this already sold his bike, His mom was leaving to abroad on Onam day, he wanted to show it to them. I let her go.

I could have gone ahead and bought expensive NOS to showoff(I can afford them now thankfully ) and smeared the bike full of new parts including the chassis(yes its available new) but I decided to retain everything and repair it.

It took 3 weeks to know that the light socket for the meter(pilot lamp) was unavailable and it took me 2 hours to fix the powdered connector of the meter light socket, but when I transplanted one form the old wiring loom, I didn't cut or solder a single wire, it was done in a way the factory would have done it. when it lit like a Christmas tree when I turned the ignition on, my happiness was beyond words.

Pramod

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 4th September 2015 at 14:04. Reason: Cleaning up!
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Old 4th September 2015, 14:46   #88
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Default re: I bought a Suzuki Shogun to Restore. UPDATE: Back with me again!

I remember the first time I saw a shogun. I was in school, and a crowd had gathered somewhere. Apparently some senior had made a bet with another senior to show up to school in a shogun, and the other guy had actually pulled it off. I had no idea about the shogun, and was told that it was a big bad machine, and wilder than the RX100 - I was in sarvodaya, and flying RX100's were the norm back then in the stretch from Ivanios to the main gate. That was the first time I saw one.

Pramod, I would ask you to be careful in this business of selling your labours of love. For someone who does not appreciate ownership of these older machines, and expects appliance like reliability after a full rebuild - A misunderstanding or two would escalate, and there have been lots of unhappy endings here on team bhp.

I personally like restoring vintage electronics, and have had issues buying from others whose restoration jobs have not met my standards, and consequently issues with friends whom I had done restorations for. Now I just do them for my own sake, and keep the beauties with me ( would You believe I have 6 Cassette Decks, 3 amplifiers & 3 turntables (all 1970's or older models) - but they inevitably keep breaking down - at any given time, 2 of my decks are down for maintenance - but I accept this is part of owning a classic machine. Everyone may not.
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Old 4th September 2015, 16:10   #89
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Default re: I bought a Suzuki Shogun to Restore. UPDATE: Back with me again!

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I remember the first time I saw a shogun. I was in school, and a crowd had gathered somewhere. Apparently some senior had made a bet with another senior to show up to school in a shogun, and the other guy had actually pulled it off. I had no idea about the shogun, and was told that it was a big bad machine, and wilder than the RX100 - I was in sarvodaya, and flying RX100's were the norm back then in the stretch from Ivanios to the main gate. That was the first time I saw one. .
Wow reminds me of my days in college, the roads were less crowded, I have reached Trivandrum (kerala university) from Kollam(TKM College Mens hostel) in less than 30 minutes.

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Pramod, I would ask you to be careful in this business of selling your labours of love. For someone who does not appreciate ownership of these older machines, and expects appliance like reliability after a full rebuild - A misunderstanding or two would escalate, and there have been lots of unhappy endings here on team bhp. .
Last year when all our bikes were done, me and my friend(who used to come every Saturday and spend the whole day) reduced our meetings as in his words, "is there any thing to tinker with?" had a no as answer always. So we amicably decided to take bikes from close friends, but that had lot of challenges, priorities was the most important one.

I finally on a Friday decided to call jayakrishnan whose ad I saw a month back, this was an impulsive buy and I never really committed myself to it initially, but once the build progressed I became attached to it, we decided to even do a small video about bikes from 80-90s, this time I already had requests from fellow co-workers who saw my bikes, so I started doing their tinkering for free. people appreciate what I do, cause I take them for spare purchases, I make them involved in the builds as much as possible. I will never take builds from unknown people and I would never buy bikes and sell to the highest bidders.

You predicted had happened with this very bike, I have mentioned the whole story in the previous post. This guy was 40km away I could have simply told him to take a walk, but I went(with my wife) for his rescue, this didn't only put his faith back in me and his new machine but also learned a valuable lesson that everyone is not to be trusted, especially the mechanics.


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Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
I personally like restoring vintage electronics, and have had issues buying from others whose restoration jobs have not met my standards, and consequently issues with friends whom I had done restorations for. Now I just do them for my own sake, and keep the beauties with me ( would You believe I have 6 Cassette Decks, 3 amplifiers & 3 turntables (all 1970's or older models) - but they inevitably keep breaking down - at any given time, 2 of my decks are down for maintenance - but I accept this is part of owning a classic machine. Everyone may not.
You know me personally, you know what all I have done for people of the district and you also know why I stopped doing it. I have personally gone to clever's house multiple times when he needed help, I made sure he, his family and neighbours slept peacefully after I left

This will not kill the passionate guy in me, I might never sell my bikes again to anyone but that would not mean I cannot own/restore multiple bikes

I might put this hobby to rest or atleast stop posting here.

pramod

Last edited by GTO : 24th September 2015 at 17:23. Reason: STRICTLY no politics or inappropriate comments on Team-BHP. Focus on bikes, NOT the people. First warning
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Old 4th September 2015, 17:40   #90
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Default re: I bought a Suzuki Shogun to Restore. UPDATE: Back with me again!

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Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
The bike left me, but its in safe hands. some recent pics
That's a sad news Pramod. I could understand how heavy your heart would be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
I am getting another one soon and this one will be restored better than how it came from the factory, so my hunt begins.
Awaiting another wonderful restoration and thread from your end. All your restoration threads were subscribed already and the upcoming ones will also be subscribed.

PS: Just leave the negative comments / feedback that you receive. For some, restoration = Spending money on parts, painting, plating. The one who actually does will understand the real meaning of restoration.
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