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Old 17th June 2015, 10:36   #16
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Default Re: Royal Enfield UCE500: EFI to Carburettor Conversion

Great work and detailed information. Thanks for sharing this! I converted my 2011 C500 to carb too - and used the same P220 carb. But i got rid of the complete wiring and ECU - replaced with a C350 wiring kit. It's pretty much a bare bones setup now - no TPS, direct throttle cable opening the carb, and vrooom. If you would have the time to point out the disadvantages / advantages of this setup, it would be really helpful.


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Old 17th June 2015, 10:49   #17
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Default Re: Royal Enfield UCE500: EFI to Carburettor Conversion

I couldn't find the back ground and the context, but what advantage does Carb give over the electronic Fuel injector?
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Old 17th June 2015, 11:02   #18
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Default Re: Royal Enfield UCE500: EFI to Carburettor Conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
I couldn't find the back ground and the context, but what advantage does Carb give over the electronic Fuel injector?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sawan_dubey View Post
If you would have the time to point out the disadvantages / advantages of this setup, it would be really helpful.
This is what I heard from users and mechanics. The initial lots of UCE500s had some bugs in the ECU, that the MIL would light up very often. Misfires and loss of power were not uncommon. The RE service guys were not able to pin point the cause of the problem and the customer was simply billed for changing injector, fuel pump, ignition coil & what not.

Hence many users resort to old school technique to have control over fuelling and spark. The service & replacement parts are also cheaper, and you don't need a diagnostic tool to understand the problem in your bike.
I don't this those problems still occur in today's UCE500.
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Old 17th June 2015, 11:07   #19
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Default Re: Royal Enfield UCE500: EFI to Carburettor Conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
I couldn't find the back ground and the context, but what advantage does Carb give over the electronic Fuel injector?
Hello alpha1,

The EFI models of the UCE 500 available in India (especially the early models) tend to run rich, causing excessive spark plug fouling. This causes an overall degradation in performance, hesitation, jerks, drop in fuel economy etc.

Again, I am not making a generalised statement. This is purely based on personal experience derived from the bike I own (model year 2010)

The rationale for switching over to a carb was to address this problem at the least possible expense.

Folks, who own newer bikes may share a different view.
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Old 17th June 2015, 13:19   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bikertillidie View Post
Hello alpha1,

The EFI models of the UCE 500 available in India (especially the early models) tend to run rich, causing excessive spark plug fouling. This causes an overall degradation in performance, hesitation, jerks, drop in fuel economy etc.

Again, I am not making a generalised statement. This is purely based on personal experience derived from the bike I own (model year 2010)

The rationale for switching over to a carb was to address this problem at the least possible expense.

Folks, who own newer bikes may share a different view.
FI is not a practical option. The fuel pump is not really the best for the quality of fuel available for us. My C500's fuel pump gave up in the middle of nowhere 40 kms before Kargil on my second journey to Leh. My intention was to get back from Leh and switch to carb... alas a few kms too early for the bike to stall.

Anyways, my question here is - if there is any difference if I use / don't use TPS and other gizmos? I wanted to get rid of the delicate poor quality wiring that was in place for the EFI/ECU unit.

My current setup:

Carb - BS32 stock (P220)
Wiring - C350
Coil - c350
NO TPS/other gizmos
UNI air filter

I have good response from the bike but I'm not sure if it's performing any better/worse than the Bullet 500.

I'm not an expert so looking for help here

Thanks a ton folks - stay awesome!

Sorry for the back to back posts - forgot to attach pics (sorry for the potato quality).

While at it, i also replaced the piston rings since i completed 50k kms most of which were spent on touring. 2x Leh, BNG > Rajasthan and many trips down south...

I hate to admit that I have a love-hate relationship with my bike

I've had my share of downs but the places I have been to and the unlimited joy more than makes up for it. I'm not a guy with too many qualms, I would camp out and enjoy a day while I'm dealing with issues, but I would like my bike to go faster and further!

So any suggestions would help me a lot.
Attached Thumbnails
Royal Enfield UCE500: EFI to Carburettor Conversion-gopr2347.jpg  

Royal Enfield UCE500: EFI to Carburettor Conversion-wp_20141220_17_46_21_pro.jpg  

Royal Enfield UCE500: EFI to Carburettor Conversion-wp_20150114_003.jpg  


Last edited by Gannu_1 : 17th June 2015 at 13:55. Reason: Back to back posts merged. Please edit your post within the 30 minute edit window to add/edit your posts.
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Old 17th June 2015, 15:41   #21
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Default Re: Royal Enfield UCE500: EFI to Carburettor Conversion

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Originally Posted by sawan_dubey View Post
If you would have the time to point out the disadvantages / advantages of this setup, it would be really helpful.
Hello Sawan,

There are quite a few pros as well as cons.
From my perspective, the pros outweigh the cons.

Pros of carb over EFI
==============
(a) one doesn't have to worry about possible damage to fuel pump caused by low fuel levels in tank
(b) actual "reserve" levels in the tank can be utilised
(c) it's a lot simpler & cheaper to tune a carb to suit individual preferences compared to EFI based systems
(d) fewer components which can possibly go wrong and cause a stranded bike for e.g: no fuel pump, injector
(e) can function with poor quality fuel
(f) no need to clean fuel injector nozzles periodically

Cons of carb over EFI
==============
(a) with properly configured maps, EFI systems can provide a much crisper throttle response under various engine loads as it's not limited to the fuel circuits built into a carb
(b) EFI systems can easily compensate for changes in altitude without having to fiddle around with jets
(c) converting from EFI (default) to a carb involves added costs

However, in my case the EFI based unit was not fulfilling the most basic criteria and was impacting drivability- "with properly configured maps, EFI systems can provide a much crisper throttle response under various engine loads as it's not limited to the fuel circuits built into a carb".

Hence, I chose this route.

I am still yet to arrive at a perfect pilot jet set-up though

The original wiring harness was retained in order to minimise expenditure.
And I didn't switch over to a TCI ignition for the same reason. I believe there is a provision to mount a TPS sensor to the BS32 carb used on the pulsar 220, but I didn't want to tamper the seal as that would void the warranty. The TPS sensor on my bike is locked in throttle closed position.

P.S. I haven't considered emissions in my discussions above, just to keep it simple.

Last edited by bikertillidie : 17th June 2015 at 16:07. Reason: verbiage changes
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Old 17th June 2015, 16:24   #22
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Default Re: Royal Enfield UCE500: EFI to Carburettor Conversion

After a period of use, I have found that the existing pilot jet (size 15) to be a bit lean. The bike behaves OK after the engine is warmed up.

With a jet sized 30, the bike was running excessively rich and I faced idling problems.

Hence, my experiments with different jet sizes began.

And having a drill press at home certainly helps !
Attached Thumbnails
Royal Enfield UCE500: EFI to Carburettor Conversion-dsc_0149.jpg  

Royal Enfield UCE500: EFI to Carburettor Conversion-dsc_0151.jpg  

Royal Enfield UCE500: EFI to Carburettor Conversion-dsc_0152.jpg  

Royal Enfield UCE500: EFI to Carburettor Conversion-dsc_0153.jpg  

Royal Enfield UCE500: EFI to Carburettor Conversion-dsc_0154.jpg  

Royal Enfield UCE500: EFI to Carburettor Conversion-dsc_0156.jpg  

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Old 17th June 2015, 16:55   #23
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Default Re: Royal Enfield UCE500: EFI to Carburettor Conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by bikertillidie View Post
After a period of use, I have found that the existing pilot jet (size 15) to be a bit lean. The bike behaves OK after the engine is warmed up.

With a jet sized 30, the bike was running excessively rich and I faced idling problems.

Hence, my experiments with different jet sizes began.
I was foreseeing this Anirbhan bhai and that's why suggested you to buy a few jets of different sizes and if not drill bits. Hope you got the jetting correct now.
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Old 17th June 2015, 17:16   #24
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Default Re: Royal Enfield UCE500: EFI to Carburettor Conversion

I have a 4 month old CL500 dessert storm. I really hate the efi.I would term the efi has a "computerized Carb". The bike stalls,backfires (gives out a loud popping sound,jerky. I will be switching over to carb post warranty,most prolly from the bullet 500 or the indimotard kit.
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Old 17th June 2015, 17:19   #25
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Default Re: Royal Enfield UCE500: EFI to Carburettor Conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilangop View Post
I was foreseeing this Anirbhan bhai and that's why suggested you to buy a few jets of different sizes and if not drill bits. Hope you got the jetting correct now.
Agreed.

Had foreseen this as well, however procuring pilot jets bearing the right size is easier said than done, at least as far as Nanapeth is concerned

I have a feeling that the correct jet size would be somewhere between 20 & 25.

Will keep you posted.
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Old 17th June 2015, 17:22   #26
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Default Re: Royal Enfield UCE500: EFI to Carburettor Conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by rakesh_r View Post
I have a 4 month old CL500 dessert storm. I really hate the efi.I would term the efi has a "computerized Carb". The bike stalls,backfires (gives out a loud popping sound,jerky. I will be switching over to carb post warranty,most prolly from the bullet 500 or the indimotard kit.
Thanks for this update.
So it appears this problem is not restricted to early models alone.
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Old 17th June 2015, 18:10   #27
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Default Re: Royal Enfield UCE500: EFI to Carburettor Conversion

Nice conversion here. An alternative would be a race dynamics ECU for the Bull.
Just a couple of questions:
1. Did you need to change the throttle body?
2. What is the reason to do this?
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Old 17th June 2015, 18:39   #28
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Default Re: Royal Enfield UCE500: EFI to Carburettor Conversion

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Nice conversion here. An alternative would be a race dynamics ECU for the Bull.
The cost of a Race Dynamics (RD) ECU varies between INR 12K to about INR 15K depending on whether you opt for tuning capabilities. But agreed, this would involve the least amount of hassle.

However, I prefer to stay out of this "trap" (no offence intended) and avoid being locked in by either RE or RD, and save a significant amount of $$$ in the process

Quote:
Originally Posted by landcruiser123 View Post
1. Did you need to change the throttle body?
2. What is the reason to do this?
After a carb conversion, there's no need to retain the throttle body.
I have explained the reason for this conversion a few posts earlier in reply to sawan_dubey.

Last edited by bikertillidie : 17th June 2015 at 18:41. Reason: Typo
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Old 17th June 2015, 22:59   #29
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Have finally settled down on a pilot jet sized 020. This fits my riding style besides catering to desired idling requirements.
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Old 18th June 2015, 00:30   #30
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Default Re: Royal Enfield UCE500: EFI to Carburettor Conversion

IMO, because the fuel injected system has few adjustable parts (TPS), it leaves most of the "old school" carburetor loving back yard mechanics with a lot of time on their hands and little to do.

The frustration caused by this condition can be removed by revising the fuel system to incorporate the old style carburetor.

With this amazing device in place the challenges are enormous.

With only 2 of the main fuel jets, main air jets, pilot fuel jets, pilot air jets, needle jets and metering rods in hand, there are over 400,000,000 different combinations to be tried.

Of course for many, 400,000,000 combinations pose no real challenge so often as many as 4 different main fuel jets, pilot fuel jets and needle jets will be at hand to bump the number of combinations up into the trillions.

Seriously, if the fuel injection system is working as it should, pouring a little fuel injection cleaner into the fuel tank every so often to keep the injector clean is easily done by the average owner and there will be no need to fiddle with the various jets and adjustment screws and this is coming from a man who was fussing with carburetors as far back as 1955.
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