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Old 29th July 2015, 09:26   #16
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Default Re: Mumbai Cops enlist Bikers to help them nab criminals (chain snatchers, etc)

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The only solution for chain snatching problem is to not wear gold while walking on the road. Wearing gold necklace is equivalent to walking around with garland made out of currency notes worth Rs. 1 Lac.

I asked my wife not to wear Mangalasutra on the road many years ago, not even "1 gram gold". There is a risk of physical harm when a chain is snatched.
^^ That is a wonderful solution. Stop giving birth to girls, so there are no more rapes. Sounds similar? Though this is OT, this kind of solution frustrates me. We cannot stop doing something because someone terrorizes us.

On the main topic, while it is a great move, we should guard against these samaritans turning to rouges with new found power. If I remember, Bangalore Traffic Police had this traffic warden programme a few years ago. A authorized civilian could flag down law breakers and report to the police, but a inspector had to be there to impose the fine. Not sure if it still continues.

Last edited by Bh.P : 29th July 2015 at 09:28.
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Old 29th July 2015, 10:35   #17
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Default Re: Mumbai Cops enlist Bikers to help them nab criminals (chain snatchers, etc)

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Originally Posted by nishantbhatia84 View Post
Hi SDP! I beg to differ with your opinion and here why:
- The 'hot' area for chain snatching in Borivali is on the link road - starting from Don Bosco school till the first/main IC Colony entrance - which is frequented by morning / evening walkers as the roads here are wide and traffic is not that heavy.
- This entire stretch has multiple by-lanes which makes it very easy for chain-snatchers on bikes to escape from the police - this is the reason that in-spite of naka-bandis at multiple locations on this road, the police weren't completely effective in curbing this menace.
- Now, by getting volunteers on equal/more powerful bikes, they've been able to successfully nab these chain-snatchers - from what I've heard, most of the gang-members have already been nabbed and the rest will hopefully be soon behind bars as well. Turns out that these chain-snatches are not hardened criminals - they're mostly drug-addicts / youngsters who're looking for some easy money.
- So net-net I feel this is an excellent initiative by the Borivali police to nab criminals with the help of civilians and can be used in other areas as well.
Nishant, no doubt it has worked in this particular case. People are happy about the end-result (reduced crime) and that's why this is being applauded as a brilliant idea.

Me calling this a stupid idea is based on the exact opposite scenario which has almost equal probability of happening. Just look at the snap in the first pic. Except one helmet, the 2 bikers don't have any protective gear. I am pretty sure they are not professionally trained to ride at high speed safely. So if one of these volunteers dies during a chase or ends up killing someone on the road (collateral damage), the same Borivali police would be in a real big mess.

So my take is that the Boriwali police have taken a risky gamble and gotten away with it. But it is still a bad idea.
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Old 29th July 2015, 12:54   #18
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Default Re: Mumbai Cops enlist Bikers to help them nab criminals (chain snatchers, etc)

I perceive that the requirements of the police of now is not at all proportional to it's manpower. Nor are they well equipped to handle advanced things, or rather, are not well determined.
The point is simple, cops in India are way behind when it comes to the newest developments, say, in the field of motorcycles. They can ride Pulsars and Enfields and shake up a vendor or two for money, but when it comes to doing something which is directly related to their job, they are literally invisible.

For example, the Gujarat Harley Davidson saga was a wake up call for every law enforcement agency in India. They bought these bikes to do VVIP duties/traffic enforcements and replicate their Manhattan counterparts, but apparently couldn't even change gears! Merely purchasing high end bikes (and expecting a cop who has ridden Pulsars all of his Police career) is not at all going to help. They should have been trained first, perhaps mastered Enfields and then the Harleys. They were directly plonked onto them, resulting in massive face-palm for the state administration. Last heard, the Streets, Superlows and Bonnies are lying covered in the police warehouse.

With regards to Mumbai, I guess the authorities are trying to introduce the gist of high speed motorcycle riding into traffic cops. The civilians are but nothing but trainers. Once they know how to manoeuvre motorcycles at high speeds, perhaps they will be more motivated to upgrade from Pulsars to CBRs. (Like in the case of Agra)

Recently I came upon an article which said that a designer in Mumbai has made a customised Electra 350 (picture attached) to suit police needs. Basically, this is for patrolling duty. Although the facilities he has provided into one single bike is worth applauding for, it's apparently too 'heavy' for the police.
And then they buy Harleys and Triumphs...

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Old 29th July 2015, 13:02   #19
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Default Re: Mumbai Cops enlist Bikers to help them nab criminals (chain snatchers, etc)

Well, it should act as a deterrent at the very least (notwithstanding the grey areas).
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Old 29th July 2015, 13:36   #20
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Default Re: Mumbai Cops enlist Bikers to help them nab criminals (chain snatchers, etc)

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Originally Posted by gaurav_3000ad View Post
While I agree that every citizen can and should play an active role in aiding law enforcement in and around him, I don't think state sponsored vigilantism is the way to go about it.

Mumbai police can do a better job by equipping themselves with better transport and gear. I'm sorry to say but this approach reeks of incompetence.
Well , one becomes a vigilante if he takes up the law into his/her own hands, but this is a good samaritan helping out the fat policeman. You provide the policemen with high performance bikes , communication devices ,better protection gear etc , the next moment that whole group is put into VVIP protection and the common man will never be able to reap its benifits .

No amount of equipping the police department will make them effective. A friend of mine was once flagged down by a middle aged fat traffic cop, he cooly pulled out his blackberry to find out the history of offences , believe it or not he was not able to browse through the application at all. When my friend offered to help , the cop was embarassed and let him go with a warning.

This whole arrangement will always be unofficial and it will be more of a goodwill initiative (with benifits) by the local police station. The moment this becomes official , it will be a burden on the government

Last edited by girimajiananth : 29th July 2015 at 13:37.
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Old 29th July 2015, 13:51   #21
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Default Re: Mumbai Cops enlist Bikers to help them nab criminals (chain snatchers, etc)

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Originally Posted by girimajiananth View Post
No amount of equipping the police department will make them effective. A friend of mine was once flagged down by a middle aged fat traffic cop, he cooly pulled out his blackberry to find out the history of offences , believe it or not he was not able to browse through the application at all. When my friend offered to help , the cop was embarassed and let him go with a warning.
absolutely! the cops are already under-staffed. their training isnt world-class so why not use some expertise from public. this way i feel that the bikers also get to be more responsible citizens.
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Old 29th July 2015, 13:57   #22
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Default Re: Mumbai Cops enlist Bikers to help them nab criminals (chain snatchers, etc)

I'm not doubting the integrity of the guys helping out however there have to be adequate controls in place and these dont appear to be there at present.

The cops need to seriously ponder over - how do you ensure that these "helpers" don't misuse the ID cards given to them and misuse their new found friendship with the cops /the chai sessions and start acting as a vigilante group? In the next few months they may start helping "friends", assisting local politicians / gangsters etc etc.

I do recollect we used to have something called the Eagle Brigade formed by the cops in South Bombay which was something like a Neighborhood Watch concept that you have in the UK - was disbanded for various reasons, one of which was the "helpers" misusing their status for their own benefit a few months down the line.

There also is a huge grey area in terms of background verification of the guys helping out, their skill level in terms of high speed pursuit and the legality of using civilians for police work.
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Old 29th July 2015, 14:02   #23
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Default Re: Mumbai Cops enlist Bikers to help them nab criminals (chain snatchers, etc)

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Originally Posted by rangan View Post
absolutely! the cops are already under-staffed. their training isnt world-class so why not use some expertise from public. this way i feel that the bikers also get to be more responsible citizens.
Traffic department has recruited these wardens to manage traffic at particular junctions , but I do not see any improvement . Nobody bothers about them , those poor souls just try to do their duty . There is no harm in using public support , what matters is the end result . If this model is going to be used on a longer run , it must have a positive outcome and it must be effective.
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Old 29th July 2015, 14:09   #24
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Default Re: Mumbai Cops enlist Bikers to help them nab criminals (chain snatchers, etc)

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Originally Posted by girimajiananth View Post
Traffic department has recruited these wardens to manage traffic at particular junctions , but I do not see any improvement . Nobody bothers about them , those poor souls just try to do their duty . There is no harm in using public support , what matters is the end result . If this model is going to be used on a longer run , it must have a positive outcome and it must be effective.
oh! those poor traffic wardens.

but, in this case i think there is a full-time policeman riding pillion which makes the whole excercise that much more legit

just hope that pot-bellied constables dont fall of speeding bikes!
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Old 29th July 2015, 15:47   #25
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Default Re: Mumbai Cops enlist Bikers to help them nab criminals (chain snatchers, etc)

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Originally Posted by Bh.P View Post
^ If I remember, Bangalore Traffic Police had this traffic warden programme a few years ago. A authorized civilian could flag down law breakers and report to the police, but a inspector had to be there to impose the fine. Not sure if it still continues.
That program is still there . But those people are absolutely helpless to control anything. They risk their lives , get abused and threatned by rouge motorists. On the other hand they are not trained to handle the traffic efficiently. One day I spent nearly 15 minutes at a small junction because I obeyed the puny lady warden manning the junction. Everyone else jumped the signal and carried on with their activities while I looked like a fool. I lost my patience and honked furiously to get a clear signal to pass .
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Old 30th July 2015, 08:55   #26
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Default Re: Mumbai Cops enlist Bikers to help them nab criminals (chain snatchers, etc)

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Originally Posted by Bh.P View Post
We cannot stop doing something because someone terrorizes us.
In this case nobody is terrorizing, they are just snatching & running away. So as a precautionary measure, we should take the necessary steps. Just as we take steps like keeping our valuables in lockers instead of homes, not going out with a huge amount of cash, avoiding certain places at night, keeping our cards, passwords, etc safe & hidden, locking our homes, cars, etc. Even the US has banned people from carrying any liquid items on planes which they used to earlier because of terrorism. So safety comes first & desire comes next.
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Old 2nd August 2015, 11:41   #27
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Default Re: Mumbai Cops enlist Bikers to help them nab criminals (chain snatchers, etc)

IMO this is sheer nonsense. Let one thief who gets caught by a civilian with a policeman as pillion file a court case accusing the civilian of harassment and intimidation, and this whole thing will fizzle down. A civilian cannot take law into his own hands and chase down or arrest alleged criminals. More over if a criminal fires upon, injures or kills a civilian engaged in such acts who is responsible? The police? Who will pay for his treatment? Who will pay for his life ? Insurance will simply refuse to pay up.
Please advice all motorists not to be a part of this foolishness. When things go wrong, and if your bike/car gets damaged or worse there is any injury or loss of life you will find yourself in big trouble. Its the job of the police to catch fleeing criminals and public can help by being whistle-blowers, but if the police is not capable of chasing down criminals then we need a new police force not vigilante justice.
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Old 8th August 2015, 23:45   #28
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Default Re: Mumbai Cops enlist Bikers to help them nab criminals (chain snatchers, etc)

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Originally Posted by Bh.P View Post
^^ That is a wonderful solution. Stop giving birth to girls, so there are no more rapes. Sounds similar? Though this is OT, this kind of solution frustrates me. We cannot stop doing something because someone terrorizes us.
Really?? And you related that to the most sensitive issue for more credibility. And FYI, these chain snatchers also snatch ear-rings. Have you ever seen a women bleeding from her ears? While we can go on and on about who's fault it is, the victim's or the criminals' (on both rape and this issue), I would want women to take tiny precautions for themselves. And that includes avoiding as much as jewellery while walking through the street for "shopping grocery". Let the cops do their job. While a rape could not have been avoided, all chain snatching cases could have been.

And please don't start with the rape issue. "Its her fault" is not what I meant.
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Old 9th August 2015, 01:22   #29
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Default Re: Mumbai Cops enlist Bikers to help them nab criminals (chain snatchers, etc)

^^ The point I was trying to make was just because someone harms us, we cannot stop doing what we like. I do not subscribe to a point of view where people suggest the victim to stop doing something he or she likes, because a criminal targets them, be it a small theft, or a more grievous crime. That is my opinion and I am entitled to it. No more comments on this from my side in the interest of keeping this thread to the point.
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