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Old 12th August 2015, 15:33   #31
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Default Re: Yamaha R3 launched at Rs. 3.25 lakhs

Finally!

We need to welcome class when it makes it to our shores, and this is one classy Yam.

The price, well, neither enthuses nor disappoints.

I am really looking forward to on road match-ups between the Yam and the Kawa. I don't think the RC is going to hold its own against these two. Being honest here.

How much on road in Pune?
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Old 12th August 2015, 15:38   #32
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Default Re: Yamaha R3 launched at Rs. 3.25 lakhs

Quote:
Super Quick turn-ins sensitive throttle and insane power to weight accounts for a holliganistic mannerism.
This was what I wanted to post.
It's basically that 'standing at the edge of the feet and ready to jump' feeling that the KTM has was what I wanted to convey.

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Adding it here since the time since previous post is past 30 minutes.
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Old 12th August 2015, 15:47   #33
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Default Re: Yamaha R3 launched at Rs. 3.25 lakhs

Well, IMHO R3 is not priced exorbitant. Yamaha is selling R15 (v2.0) for about 1.5 lakh OTR (locally produced) and only looking at the specs (150cc, single cylinder) it is not worth, but when u look at the build quality, capabilities (in relation to the price) and all the tech gone into that bike, the price make sense and the sales chart proves that.

R3 may look expensive and not vfm against RC390 but considering the extra cylinder, built quality, the frame, tech, and looks (subjective though) it cannot be compared to the RC

The real competitor for the R3 is Ninja 300. Both without ABS and almost equally priced.

The Ninja is tested and known for its reliability where R3 is yet to be tested by time. But in looks department I felt R3, sharper than Ninja (IMO)

But is it worth buying a R3 or even Ninja for that money? I canít comment on that. It depends on the buyer. But for a bike not locally produced, the price seems to be correct.
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Old 12th August 2015, 16:06   #34
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Default Re: Yamaha R3 launched at Rs. 3.25 lakhs

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Originally Posted by theredliner View Post
The KTM engineering in the bike is great. It is the quality churned out by Bajaj that's bad. The great engineering reflects not just in the engine, it is reflected in handling too.

Let's see if they come out with an S300RR with BMW engineering and TVS' quality that is considerably better than Bajaj's.

About the hooligan part, I meant power delivery in the form of an exciting surge as opposed to linear acceleration seen in the parallel twins.

I think you have got the R3's riding posture confused with something else. R3 has a lot less aggressive posture than RC390.


Agree that sales are the real target for a company, but Yamaha does not seem to be aiming to get much of that either, considering the price.

Once the diehard Yamaha fans finish up the initial batches, the sales will be divided between R3 and Ninja. If Kawa cuts the price (like they did for Z800 and killed the Street Triple) or introduces ABS without much increase in price, it would be near death for R3.

Okay, the exhaust note is bad.
I too would love to get my hands on a KTM 690. A single cylinder Duke 690 or a V-Twin RC 690 would be superb.
Thanks for a matured response instead of an emotional outburst.

Yes acknowledge that KTM have done a fair bit of engineering to keep the weights down (inherent of trellis frames) which does enhance the flick-ability of KTMs.

TVS Launch might take some more time but somehow their current series do not enthuse any interest. Yes the S300RR is something that I would look out for. But for me personally I do not think I will ever consider them for my garage.

Singles give out all their power over a particular Rev Range. They are pesky to say the best. Not sure of your riding past, the Duke reminds you of the RX & Shoguns of yesteryears. If you have had a chance to ride, you will exactly understand what am trying to convey here.

The Twins are more refined, more balanced and efficient with their ride quality. Yes they are expensive to maintain since they have an extra piston, extra rings, extra rods, extra engineering in the engine section and needs a better chassis to handle that much of power. (am not saying RC is not powerful but more of a Single Vs Twin generalization)

Indians know Yamaha as True Performance bikes. They have been acknowledged for that from many years ago. Thanks to RD, RX, R15. Yamaha is more of an aspirational product for Indians. How much of that aspiration gets converted to sales needs to be waited and watched. (The link that you sent shows that YMIL have an impressive 26.47% Y-O-Y Growth).

What do you ride? Could not see much in your garage though..


Quote:
Originally Posted by man_of_steel View Post
Lets be fair here.
At the same time I do agree that the quality is not par with the competition, but it is at par with the price.

Mate, I did mention in my post that I was exaggerating my thought process. What actually triggered me to think like that? Reading all such horror stories in this esteemed forum.

I can confidently state that R3 will be much better built simply because its a CKD with no localization.
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Old 12th August 2015, 16:49   #35
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Default Re: Yamaha R3 launched at Rs. 3.25 lakhs

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Originally Posted by ku69rd View Post
Thanks for a matured response instead of an emotional outburst.

What do you ride? Could not see much in your garage though..
Thanks. Happy to engage in a discussion on bikes

I have ridden RX 135. It was mad. Loved the madness. I haven't ridden Shogun. Heard it was even better. May be you can answer that. Those bikes were long stopped by the time I got my license. Was lucky enough to ride an RX when I was in college.

I think the single vs twin in this case is similar to V-Twin vs Inline 4 in higher capacity bikes. Some people prefer the grunty, rough, torque surge of V-twins of Ducati Panigale, KTM RC8 etc. while many prefer the smooth, high revving iniline-4s.

I haven't ridden any high capacity Ducatis. So, can't comment on that. But I'm guessing that I'd like the Ducatis more considering their nature.

I'm also curious about the sales. It'd be interesting to watch if the past history of Yamaha or the exclusivity of the Kawa will have an upper hand.

About my garage, I currently ride a humble lil' Apache RTR 160. That was bought when I was in college (not with my own money). Did ride a Duke 390 considerably in the anticipation of buying an RC (first bike with my own money), rode the RC after the launch, then waited for the niggles to get fixed, then waited for the slipper clutch to come, currently added BMW K-03 to that list
Did ride a Ninja 250 a few years back. The bike was fast, refined and neatly built. But did not find it exciting enough for me to put that much money into it.

I see you have some monsters like RD-350, FZ-1 etc. You seem to have a lot of riding experience!

Last edited by theredliner : 12th August 2015 at 16:51.
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Old 12th August 2015, 17:40   #36
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Default Re: Yamaha R3 launched at Rs. 3.25 lakhs

For all those calling KTM a better buy, it may be true in terms of pricing alone. Just comparing a single cylinder naked bike/semi enduro with a full race spec faired bike IMO is a bit unfair. As it is Yamaha has been praised several times across forums and reviews for the chassis, seating position, the razor sharp handling especially the way it is so track oriented. With 42 ps, the power deficit too seems to be taken care of.

The correct comparison can only be done on a track, but it also depends on what the potential buyer is looking for, be it a track tool, an everyday cruiser or a mile muncher.
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Old 12th August 2015, 19:41   #37
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Default Re: Yamaha R3 launched at Rs. 3.25 lakhs

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The correct comparison can only be done on a track, but it also depends on what the potential buyer is looking for, be it a track tool, an everyday cruiser or a mile muncher.
Considering the affordability to take it to track as well as the availability and ease of using track for a day, i am not sure if the intention of this segment is to capture track crowd but the daily crowd.

When that comes into picture a CBR250 with ABS costs higher than the 390 and the 390 is the best value for money. Considering the mods available these days including power commander, exhausts and even a quick shifter, and still spending less than 3L it makes it easier for those who thought about a 250cc and can make the jump.


The Yamaha is still a YAMAHA and the R3 may be the revival of Yamaha in this segment after the R15. Simple reason this R3 has all yamaha signature. Those who love the noisy engine like me will vouch for the fact that the engine is one of the reliable as well.

I now honeslty hope the KTM 690 hits the market priced slightly below 7L. That would be a killer.
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Old 12th August 2015, 19:49   #38
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Default Re: Yamaha R3 launched at Rs. 3.25 lakhs

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I now honeslty hope the KTM 690 hits the market priced slightly below 7L. That would be a killer.
Wow look what a release from YAMAHA does to Indians

I agree with you chief, This has all the markings of making it BIG in its class. I will not expect it to sell like the Hero Splendor but I might sound bullish in my thoughts at 1000 per month for the next 2 years at-least.

KTM 690 would be a perfect answer but why at 700K? Should be a deal at 500K X showroom.
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Old 12th August 2015, 20:28   #39
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Default Re: Yamaha R3 launched at Rs. 3.25 lakhs

When I first saw the N300, I was awe-struck with its Design and I did fall for it. Likewise, a similar feeling when I saw the R3. This bike in the right hands, can go places and should be super fun to ride (looking at the specs).

Just my take from what's being discussed here :

Before I got the Ninja 300, I wanted to understand what this 'Slipper clutch' meant. Apart from the theory knowledge of what it does, I dont know if it has helped me in anyway, in the real world, till date. (Done just over 25K kms)

Similarly, when I hear people talk about ABS is a deal breaker, wonder if they rely on equipments & technology, while on the saddle, rather than their own riding abilities. It is definitely a good feature to have but not a 'must have'. Its in the lines of saying, I'll not drive, if the car does not have air bags.

I hope it doesn't come to a stage, where people might want the 'Slipper clutch' as a must have feature and ends up becoming a deal breaker.

Not gonna compare, Apples & Oranges, but the only difference in the real world would be the 14Ltr Fuel Tank on the R3 vs the 17Ltr on the N300
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Old 12th August 2015, 20:57   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aviorp View Post
When I first saw the N300, I was awe-struck with its Design and I did fall for it. Likewise, a similar feeling when I saw the R3. This bike in the right hands, can go places and should be super fun to ride (looking at the specs).

Just my take from what's being discussed here :

Before I got the Ninja 300, I wanted to understand what this 'Slipper clutch' meant. Apart from the theory knowledge of what it does, I dont know if it has helped me in anyway, in the real world, till date. (Done just over 25K kms)

Similarly, when I hear people talk about ABS is a deal breaker, wonder if they rely on equipments & technology, while on the saddle, rather than their own riding abilities. It is definitely a good feature to have but not a 'must have'. Its in the lines of saying, I'll not drive, if the car does not have air bags.

I hope it doesn't come to a stage, where people might want the 'Slipper clutch' as a must have feature and ends up becoming a deal breaker.

Not gonna compare, Apples & Oranges, but the only difference in the real world would be the 14Ltr Fuel Tank on the R3 vs the 17Ltr on the N300
Lack of ABS is a deal breaker for some. Even seasoned riders will run into trouble locking up their brakes in Indian conditions. So ABS should be a must have on a motorcycle like R3 which is mainly going to be purchased by someone upgrading from a 150 or 200 and not by seasoned sbk riders. The combination of lack of ABS with less than impressive tyres can be seriously fatal on a 42ps motorcycle. Whereas a slipper clutch is not necessary on a street bike.

It's a beautiful bike especially in that blue shade. The pricing is pretty much what you can expect from a ckd and the Jap reliability and build quality will justify the price tag. I'm seriously disappointed with the tyres though.
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Old 12th August 2015, 21:00   #41
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Default Re: Yamaha R3 launched at Rs. 3.25 lakhs

Disappointed!

I was hoping that, Yamaha would take cue from its close competition, i.e. Honda and KTM, than from Kawasaki. Both launched far more VFM performance products in last 3 years and have changed performance biking landscape. And of course, making very good revenue numbers at the same time! Afterall, even though Kawasaki makes double revenue per Ninja, how many Ninjas do you see on the road compared to CBR250Rs, D390 and RC390s?

Yamaha moans that, Indian market is more for scooters than performance bikes. With this kind of pricing, no wonder, they aren't going to sell many.

Quite likely, they want to keep it as aspirational product to boost the brand than actually making high volumes/revenue. If that is the intent, they are bang on target!

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Old 12th August 2015, 21:41   #42
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Default Re: Yamaha R3 launched at Rs. 3.25 lakhs

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With this kind of pricing, no wonder, they aren't going to sell many.
To be honest the R3 is priced right. The cost of R3 showroom is 4990 USD. Roughly translating at the current dollar rate to around 325/330.

The R3 is a segment that is taking over various market. Not R3, but the segment.

R15/R25 will answer the VFM segment. To me the pricing is absolutely on target. This is not a RC390. Test ride this bike and i am sure you will know how much of quality the bike carries and there is no compromise on the equipment list or the build itself from what i see here in the states.
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Old 12th August 2015, 23:55   #43
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Default Re: Yamaha R3 launched at Rs. 3.25 lakhs

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R15/R25 will answer the VFM segment. To me the pricing is absolutely on target. This is not a RC390. Test ride this bike and i am sure you will know how much of quality the bike carries and there is no compromise on the equipment list or the build itself from what i see here in the states.
Yes, they are selling it at same quality as in US, but at the same price in US. What is volume churner in US can't necessarily be the same in India, otherwise Corollas and Civics would have been highest sellers here.

Honda has been able to price CBR250R extremely competitively, since they've invested into manufacturing it in India (other than single cylinder setup). Same for KTM! Yamaha doesn't want to do it, for reasons best known to them.

Being an ardent Yamaha lover, I of course find the bike delicious. Just that they have followed Kawasaki than Honda or KTM on pricing front.
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Old 13th August 2015, 00:34   #44
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Default Re: Yamaha R3 launched at Rs. 3.25 lakhs

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Being an ardent Yamaha lover, I of course find the bike delicious. Just that they have followed Kawasaki than Honda or KTM on pricing front
Again you are mixing two different segments. The CBR250 is priced closed to the KTM 390. KTM 390 is the cheapest for its manufacatured and assembled in India. The same KTM 390 is close to 4750 USD being an import here.

Also Kawasaki is not cheap. Check the Ninja 300 its actually costly and loses big time to KTM 390 for value for money.

We are lucky to have KTM in India through Bajaj.

Considering all this except KTM all other bikes are similarly priced.

This is where i want KTM to launch the 690 locally assembled to avoid the tax and make it around 6-7L show room.

Comparing with Corollas the pricing is completely off in India. A corollo is a sub 10L in comparison to US market. Make the Corolla 10L and the volume churner will happen automatically in India.

I am not defending Yamaha here, i am jsut saying the segment of comparison is not right and the R25 is what you can compare with the 250
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Old 13th August 2015, 01:14   #45
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Default Re: Yamaha R3 launched at Rs. 3.25 lakhs

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Again you are mixing two different segments. The CBR250 is priced closed to the KTM 390. KTM 390 is the cheapest for its manufacatured and assembled in India. The same KTM 390 is close to 4750 USD being an import here.

Also Kawasaki is not cheap. Check the Ninja 300 its actually costly and loses big time to KTM 390 for value for money.

We are lucky to have KTM in India through Bajaj.

Considering all this except KTM all other bikes are similarly priced.

This is where i want KTM to launch the 690 locally assembled to avoid the tax and make it around 6-7L show room.

Comparing with Corollas the pricing is completely off in India. A corollo is a sub 10L in comparison to US market. Make the Corolla 10L and the volume churner will happen automatically in India.

I am not defending Yamaha here, i am jsut saying the segment of comparison is not right and the R25 is what you can compare with the 250
All of them are category i.e. between 250 to 400 cc segment. It is differentiated in India, since they are priced very differently. In fact, all the segment comparisons worldwide are made between CBR250R, N300, N250 and D200/D390.

You probably missed my earlier post. I had mentioned that Yamaha followed Kawasaki in pricing than Honda or KTM.

I gave example of Corolla to explain that, Indian market and US market are not the same. What's volume churner in US doesn't translate the same to India. Same goes for pricing!

For you, the pricing is right. For me, it's quite off if they wanted this to sell in numbers.
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