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Old 26th November 2015, 10:19   #16
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Default Re: V.L. Motors, Santacruz (Honda 2-wheeler service centre) caught overcharging!

Quote:
Originally Posted by spd_tkt View Post
Dear bhpians, may I voice my opinion here! Now then, since my last post regarding my Alfa ownership http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...-workshop.html (My Alfa Romeo Story - A 156, a red V6 & my own workshop!) I have been longing to write my long story on how over a short period of 9 months (till now) I moved from working as an Analyst in Dubai to running a two wheeler sales and service outlet in kerala!
Thanks for giving us an insight into the working on the dealership spd_tkt.

I myself have a bit of experience in this field and I can relate to all what you said.


Quote:
Originally Posted by spd_tkt View Post
And what SRK mentioned about pending work from Saturday. Is that not a reality? Are those customers any less important? Shouldn’t I finish their work first? What if it is your vehicle that was pending?
I do understand that they have to work on the pending vehicles first and hence I was ready to stay without demanding an earlier slot. Sometimes while taking the vehicle, one cannot predict the time it would take to complete the work. It is only once the technician starts working he gets to know the extent of problem, which in turn increases the time for service.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spd_tkt
Sometimes the delay is for getting the vehicle washed. Now the wash facility does not cater exclusively for one dealership. They have customers driving in plus vehicles from other dealerships and since they offer a discounted rate for dealerships they might prioritize work accordingly. So we might change the oil, clean the air-filter, inspect the spark plug, lube the wheel hubs, inspect the drive line, belt etc, change any cable. in 2 hours, (may take more if the vehicle is old and the bolts are rusted) but at the washing station, it waits for a good 5 hours!

Solution – if you are running a service centre, you ‘Must’ have a wash facility of your own.
Agree with you. A service centre has to have their own wash centre if they want to deliver on time. But rules and regulation and inexperienced staff make it very difficult to run a wash centre, hence this work is outsourced because of which the delay can occur and sometimes they do not do the work as expected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spd_tkt
Consumable – Every service bill has it! I do the same and I cannot speak for everyone but honestly that part of always goes to profit/ revenue. Or at least, that is how I account it, but then there ARE consumables used during service; the cotton waste, the greeze, the oil used to top-up, the little ounces of fluids poured, the many cans of WD40. All these adds up as monthly expense so technically, it is not my profit, it is to cover an expense I incur on a monthly basis that I cannot bill you separately.
This charge is entirely acceptable. While the things done here look small, when the cost is added for all the bikes serviced per day it comes out to be decent amount of money, which has to be recovered. But that also does not mean that the customer has to be charged for some things they never opted for or what was not performed.

I remember a long time back when I had got a few repairs on my Ikon done at Ford Service centre they had prepared a list of all the things used, right from the insulating tape, WD40 to small screws. This would be one way be transparent and charge only for what was used.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spd_tkt
Watching the vehicle get serviced - Customer being able to watch the vehicle being serviced is the correct thing to do and I am hugely in favor of this, especially so if the customer is also a technical person and genuinely passionate about her/ his ride. I love to watch such stuff and I am very much into automobiles, why else would I be in this forum


But my technicians do not share this enthusiasm and I respect their opinion in this regard;
I also understand that any person would not like being watched while they are working. Same is the case with me, I don't like some one staring at me while I work. Hence when I was at the service centre I stood at a place, where I could see my scooter but the technician couldn't see me.

A solution to this would be to design the service bay and the customer lounge with a one way mirror in between but that can only be possible if one is designing the interiors from scratch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spd_tkt
Also customers themselves may not be too happy to see their beloved possession being ripped open by some stranger with greezy hands and sharp tools (ok I might try to get some work gloves for the staff), but as vehicles get older, things become difficult to open and a hammer may only be the perfect tool. Rusty bolts and dirty nooks and really tough.
I relate this to seeing your loved one on an operation table. You just can't watch the things that take place, though they are necessary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spd_tkt
Then there are all those customers; the ones who talk a lot, the ones who have the most repulsive attitude, the lazy customer who expects us to do everything including pick and drop and renew his expired pollution paper while we are at it just because he is the customer (mind you - he needs this done before evening), the expert who knows it all, the ones who come drunk, the impatient customer who expects everything to happen in a jiffy, the guy who refuses to pay after he was informed of the job before setting the bill, the ones who are there only so they can have a good argument and I know that I may be obliged to extend my courtesy to everyone who comes here as they are our customer but should I?

Should I behave like some sort of bank call center and offer them a ready made apology or can I present my arguments even if it hurts their ego a bit?
Add setting an insurance claim to to the list. The customer expects to get everything done and pay nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spd_tkt
Plus I do not like being shouted at, I do not shout at my staff and I treat them just as I would treat my customers. I have fired some employees I Redeemer were not apt for the job but I did not mistreat them and I expect that from my customers. Is that expecting too much? Now I know that certain grievances are genuine and we are not perfect in any manner but issues can always be addressed without resorting to shouts and arguments.
Even I hate shouting or being shouted at, things can be handled in a better if both parties talk but most of the times it doesn't work that way and one has to raise their voice.

While I was overcharged, I very calmly had a talk with the advisor first, after which I was directed to the manager, here again I explained him the situation in a gentle manner and the situation was sorted then and there. Had any one of us would have raised their voice, things would have not moved to smoothly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spd_tkt
Please not that ours is nowhere like a large full-fledged dealership run by a large group with tons of resources. Ours is a small family run business that we started with great expectations. My wife and I work here donning different rolls so we are not just investors or business owners per se.
I wish you all the best for your setup. I am sure with your passion and hardwork you will be big with a loyal customer base
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Old 26th November 2015, 10:32   #17
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Default Re: V.L. Motors, Santacruz (Honda 2-wheeler service centre) caught overcharging!

Authorised 2-wheeler centres are known for this. I had taken my Activa for third free service, the service advisor found everything normal and finally came up with idea and below is how the conversation went:
SA: Sir the front tyre alignment is not proper.
Me: Oh really? But I don't feel any problem while riding.
SA: Sir you would not feel everytime, mostly when you go through road humps, the tire will touch front mudguard.
Me: What would happen next?
SA: You will meet with accident and scooter will get damaged.
Me: Oh then this is a serious issue, since there is no accident, please get it covered under warranty.
SA: Sir but this wont come in warranty.
Me: Call your manager, I want to talk to him.
Manager: after inspecting says, sir Scooter is fine, SA was just advising, you can do if needed.

If you don't question them back, they will loot you. The Guy next to me who cam in Unicorn for service was having a nightmare i suppose. It was regular service and had some minor problems reported. The SA had given estimate of 6K+ . What's more shocking is, the owner told I had spent 3.5K for the previous service and SA told If you want our bike in good condition, you have to spend so much!


Last time around, I took Activa to a shell outlet got oil replaced for 299 bucks. The authorised service centre guys don't do anything more than this, probably they wouldadjust brakes.
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Old 26th November 2015, 10:51   #18
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Default Re: V.L. Motors, Santacruz (Honda 2-wheeler service centre) caught overcharging!

I'll narrte my experience at the same service centre. When I used to get my activa serviced from here, there was a 3M auto care exactly next to the SC so the teflon coating & all other scams were performed in this shop. I don't know if it is present even now, as it has been more than 10 months since I visited there.

In 2014 I had gone for the first servicing of my activa. I reached there early & mine was the third entry in the register. The SA came to me, asked for my service coupons & problems if any. Then after a test ride he began to prepare the job card in which he included engine flushing & oil additives. I being a noob back then didn't know about these scams & as it was my first service experience, I asked him about flushing & addictives for which the SA replied that the engine is thoroughly washed with chemicals from the inside which will ensure the smooth running of the engine. After listening to this I agreed for it. Then he kept pestering for the AMC & teflon coating to which I readily rejected.

One good thing was that the activa was serviced in front of me. The bill came out to be 700 & odd rupees in which ₹400 was for flushing & additives which was in the name of 3M auto care. The activa was thoroughly washed, wiped & handed over to me. The servicing took 2.5 hours & the overall experience was good except for the 400 extra bucks which were wasted. IIRC every 3 out of 5 activas which came for servicing were directed to the 3M guys. So you can guess how much commission the ASS guys were making out of innocent consumers money.
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Old 26th November 2015, 10:53   #19
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Default Re: V.L. Motors, Santacruz (Honda 2-wheeler service centre) caught overcharging!

Dear SRK and SPD-TKT - hello to both of you. I have read your respective points of view and I understand them. I request you to please read the thread "Why customers get bad experiences at dealerships", which is there in the Indian Car Dealerships section. I believe you will find most of the answers there:

From a customer standpoint, he has exact expectations of what he exactly expects out of his dealer workshop visit. From the workshop operator's standpoint, he exactly does what he does. The issue is that there is a huge disconnect here, which needs to be bridged. If both of you can do something about the sentence that I have underlined, it will benefit both of you and everybody else also, because the huge guys sitting in their Citadel Towers are not going to do anything about it! I am typing this post as you have said that you (SPD-TKT) are a family run workshop so this should be possible, at least in your establishment. Perhaps, the business model to make this happen is actually completely different from what normally happens. As I have not seen this happening so far with my experiences, my vehicles don't go to dealer workshops! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Last edited by DHABHAR.BEHRAM : 26th November 2015 at 10:57.
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Old 26th November 2015, 19:02   #20
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Default Re: V.L. Motors, Santacruz (Honda 2-wheeler service centre) caught overcharging!

I had a similar experience with my KTM 390 Duke. For the free service, which mandatory for the two-year warranty, I got the bike serviced at JAI BAJAJ in Adayar. I usually leave the bike at the service center as I have to get back to work and my first service was no different. The SA informed me that I would defenitely be informed by phone before evening. I had also asked to inspect my rear tire as the air pressure kept dropping regularly-two days after filling air the pressure would drop down to single digits. The SA assured that this would be done. Since I had received no calls during the day, I went to the service center after work to find that no work had been done on the bike. After inquiry, the S.A. instructed a mechanic to take up my bike. The mechanic who took it up did nothing more than changing engine oil. When I asked him about the tyres he told me that he could see nothing wrong with it. La4 er, the S.A. told me that he had it checked and it was a faulty valve. Within two days after the service, the air pressure dropped again. I visited the service center again only to be told that they cannot identify the problem. I am quite sure that they had not done anything with the tire during the first service, as claimed. This problem got resolved only after I changed the rear tire. Looking back, this was actually nothing compared to what I would experience during the second service.

I gave the bike for second service close to six months after purchase. It was returned within a day, but in a couple of days the engine refused to crank when the ignition and engine on were turned on. The digital console would light up, the horn, indicators and lights would work but the bike would not start. I took it to the same service center by tow. None of the mechanics nor the S.A. could diagnose what the problem was and I was asked to leaf the bike behind. I was told that I would be called when the fault was diagnosed and repaired. Since I did not have another option, I left the bike with them, hoping it would be resolved soon. I kept checking regularly with the SA through phone visited the center once every two to three days, but no work had been done. After about a week's time, the S.A. told me that the problem was with the wiring and a replacement was on its way being shipped from Pune. After another four days, I was called by the S.A. and informed that the bike is readý. I picked up the bike and since then I am experiencing trouble with its electricals: the headlights, horn and indicators keep failing. Worse than that the bike and the digital console turn off sometimes when riding. Despite several follow up with the service center, none of the issues have been resolved.

I am learning to live with these niggles as I have no other options. Nowadays, I do not get the bike serviced at the authorized service center. I give it to a mechanic whom I have known since I started riding and though the electrical problems still keep popping up, the bike rides wonderfully otherwise. However, getting parts in the market for KIM is a pain. The OEM parts are sold only to the authorized service c enters, and buying specific parts is an ask in itself. When inquired about buying the air, oil, fuel filters, I was asked to bring my bike and that they will replace them. Only after telling them that I was not happy with their work and that I am getting the service done by myself, was I given the parts.

With such wonderful products I. The market, KIM would do itself great good if all operations were not interconnected to Bajaj and specific training is provided to KTM mechanics.
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Old 26th November 2015, 21:16   #21
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Default Re: V.L. Motors, Santacruz (Honda 2-wheeler service centre) caught overcharging!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear SRK and SPD-TKT - hello to both of you. I have read your respective points of view and I understand them. I request you to please read the thread "Why customers get bad experiences at dealerships", which is there in the Indian Car Dealerships section. I believe you will find most of the answers there:

From a customer standpoint, he has exact expectations of what he exactly expects out of his dealer workshop visit. From the workshop operator's standpoint, he exactly does what he does. The issue is that there is a huge disconnect here, which needs to be bridged. If both of you can do something about the sentence that I have underlined, it will benefit both of you and everybody else also, because the huge guys sitting in their Citadel Towers are not going to do anything about it! I am typing this post as you have said that you (SPD-TKT) are a family run workshop so this should be possible, at least in your establishment. Perhaps, the business model to make this happen is actually completely different from what normally happens. As I have not seen this happening so far with my experiences, my vehicles don't go to dealer workshops! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Thanks Behram sir for pointing out to the thread,will have a look.

As far my expectations as a customer, I would like the service centre to be honest, they should carry out the required work as per the guidelines from manufacturer. Incase they want to sell additional services they should inform the customer rather than just add items without consent.

I do remember you had been to my college (M.H. Saboo Siddik) when we were working on the BAJA project back in 2009 and had talked about a few incidents about how you handled some very demanding customers for Mahindra.
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Old 27th November 2015, 12:36   #22
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Default Re: V.L. Motors, Santacruz (Honda 2-wheeler service centre) caught overcharging!

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Originally Posted by SRK View Post
1. Thanks Behram sir for pointing out to the thread,will have a look. 2. As far my expectations as a customer, I would like the service centre to be honest, they should carry out the required work as per the guidelines from manufacturer. Incase they want to sell additional services they should inform the customer rather than just add items without consent. 3. I do remember you had been to my college (M.H. Saboo Siddik) when we were working on the BAJA project back in 2009 and had talked about a few incidents about how you handled some very demanding customers for Mahindra.
Dear SRK - hello and thanks for replying. My reply is as follows:

1 and 3. You are welcome, that thread itself is the result of "what all" I went through and "what all" (hahaha) I did or "had to do", basic human decency prevents me from writing further, please be satisfied with the three exclamation marks!!! .
2. You must be joking!!! . As long as there are suckers out there (they are a dime-a-dozen out there, you see them every day, hanging around at dealership counters at 9 in the morning and 4.30 in the evening, poor fellows somehow trying to get their own vehicles back), there will be businessmen out there, out to make money by any which ways possible. You and I can only guide people properly, after that, to each his own. I hope good sense prevails!!!

Take care!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 29th November 2015, 20:26   #23
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Default Re: V.L. Motors, Santacruz (Honda 2-wheeler service centre) caught overcharging!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SRK View Post
I had a first-hand experience on how the dealers and authorised service centre try to fool customers.
Welcome to the club. This has happened to me as well, but we can only learn from such episodes and avoid such episodes in future.

What I usually do is stay for the first 2-3 services and try to build up a good rapport with the service advisor and tell him the following-
1.Mention to him firmly to follow the manufactures' guidelines.
2.Give me an accurate estimate of delivery and stick with it.
3.I will not be interested in any engine flush, additive, battery terminal protection etc, if it were to be needed, then they would be in the owners manual, or in the form of a letter/notice from the company on its letter head (e.g. special instructions or in my case the addition of a Fastner plate in Vespa ).
4.Payment will be done only after a test drive after service and so will be the feedback. We hurry to get our vehicles back fast and give feedback and pay the service fees.

Once I was changed a bit high for consumables, grease, engine oil etc, from that day I provided the same oil and grease and my free service was actually free. After realising that I could not be taken for a ride, the next services have been touch wood. Reasonable charges and the attitude of the service attendants changed as well for the better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spd_tkt View Post
Dear bhpians, may I voice my opinion here! ...I have been longing to write my long story on how over a short period of 9 months (till now) I moved from working as an Analyst in Dubai to running a two wheeler sales and service outlet in kerala!

At least I can learn a lot from your valuable suggestion and will try and put them to good use where possible.

Some of my suggestions for a 2 wheeler service outlet.
1. I know washing facility is expensive to get (monetary and permission wise) and might need to get outsourced, but this needs to improve, our Activa used to come un-washed 7/10 times due to lack of water, big queue, no electricity etc.
2. Agree with the consumables part, over the day they do add up significantly, but charging for a whole bottle of WD-40 and using only 10-20 sprays is definitely not right. One idea is ask the customer to but a can of it, some grease, and keep it in the storage of the vehicle so that the technicians can use that - I did that and to some extent it worked.
3a. Cleanliness- if I can't make out the colour of the floor, its a big NO-NO for me.
3b. Tools should be clean and not black.
3c. Providing gloves may not be possible always, but the technicians can definitely was their hands from time to time.
4. The waiting room should be adjacent to the work area with a window, or if there are CCTV cameras, why not display the workshop feed in the waiting room TV instead of the daily soaps ?

Yes I know it is tough for the service outlet, but why can't we meet in between of two extremes ? The service guys do a through job and we customers understand the actual work done and pay reasonable fees for the work done ?

Also, understand the actual capacity of the vehicles that can be serviced in a day and try to do that number only. Otherwise proper servicing will not happen. It saddens me to see the SA boast about the number of vehicles they service per day (Honda guy claimed 200 or more per day and he had only 4 bays !! ). The whole lane to the the service center would be lined up and at times double parked with Actives, Dios and other bikes. And the one where I service my vehicle, there are no parked Vespas on the road. All vehicles are inside the compound and that too neatly in a row.
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Old 30th November 2015, 00:23   #24
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Default Re: V.L. Motors, Santacruz (Honda 2-wheeler service centre) caught overcharging!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SRK View Post
Thanks for giving us an insight into the working on the dealership spd_tkt.

I myself have a bit of experience in this field and I can relate to all what you said.

I do understand that they have to work on the pending vehicles first and hence I was ready to stay without demanding an earlier slot. Sometimes while taking the vehicle, one cannot predict the time it would take to complete the work. It is only once the technician starts working he gets to know the extent of problem, which in turn increases the time for service.

Agree with you. A service centre has to have their own wash centre if they want to deliver on time. But rules and regulation and inexperienced staff make it very difficult to run a wash centre, hence this work is outsourced because of which the delay can occur and sometimes they do not do the work as expected.


This charge is entirely acceptable. While the things done here look small, when the cost is added for all the bikes serviced per day it comes out to be decent amount of money, which has to be recovered. But that also does not mean that the customer has to be charged for some things they never opted for or what was not performed.

I remember a long time back when I had got a few repairs on my Ikon done at Ford Service centre they had prepared a list of all the things used, right from the insulating tape, WD40 to small screws. This would be one way be transparent and charge only for what was used.

I also understand that any person would not like being watched while they are working. Same is the case with me, I don't like some one staring at me while I work. Hence when I was at the service centre I stood at a place, where I could see my scooter but the technician couldn't see me.

A solution to this would be to design the service bay and the customer lounge with a one way mirror in between but that can only be possible if one is designing the interiors from scratch.

I relate this to seeing your loved one on an operation table. You just can't watch the things that take place, though they are necessary.

Add setting an insurance claim to to the list. The customer expects to get everything done and pay nothing.


Even I hate shouting or being shouted at, things can be handled in a better if both parties talk but most of the times it doesn't work that way and one has to raise their voice.

While I was overcharged, I very calmly had a talk with the advisor first, after which I was directed to the manager, here again I explained him the situation in a gentle manner and the situation was sorted then and there. Had any one of us would have raised their voice, things would have not moved to smoothly.

I wish you all the best for your setup. I am sure with your passion and hardwork you will be big with a loyal customer base
Dear SRK, Thank you for the kind words and thanks again for trying to see my observations in a positive manner especially after the bitter experience you had at the service center. Sorry I took a while to reply.

"Add setting an insurance claim to to the list. The customer expects to get everything done and pay nothing."

hahaha, I almost typed that in there and then I thought, I have done the same. Just a few months before I got involved in the showroom project i met with a small accident and I did trouble the service center staff so they could do all the paper work instead of me running around.

As of now, I don't mind handling the insurance paper work but it can be a bit tedious at times especially when you have your hand full of stuff to do and I sometimes end up having to make that toll free call to register the accident on the customers behalf. So that, I ask the customers to do. I detest doing this, How many times do I call them to say about the dog jumping in front on a slippery road

So you see, outside the context of my work, I cannot stop behaving like any other customer. When I take my car for service I sometimes haggle about the bill amount and try to to cut the best deal and I am always unsure if the service staff did a proper job!

I did think about having glass partitions and even did some installations (not a one way mirror thingy just normal glass) but once again my main mech, who I must admit is a very timid guy, did not appreciate. So I have the glass installed in my cabin so I can see them there but I have made a note of this and will try to do something before the showroom work is complete.

With regard to billing consumables individually, it will add transparency but then you never know if it would make every customer happy besides it will be difficult to keep track, like few squirts of WD, where do i put that?

Now that is one of my customer relation policies; "You cannot make every one happy". I know it is not an apt policy to conduct any customer oriented business but still.

Do keep your suggestions coming in, and that you once again Thank you for your well wishes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear SRK and SPD-TKT - hello to both of you. I have read your respective points of view and I understand them. I request you to please read the thread "Why customers get bad experiences at dealerships", which is there in the Indian Car Dealerships section. I believe you will find most of the answers there:

From a customer standpoint, he has exact expectations of what he exactly expects out of his dealer workshop visit. From the workshop operator's standpoint, he exactly does what he does. The issue is that there is a huge disconnect here, which needs to be bridged. If both of you can do something about the sentence that I have underlined, it will benefit both of you and everybody else also, because the huge guys sitting in their Citadel Towers are not going to do anything about it! I am typing this post as you have said that you (SPD-TKT) are a family run workshop so this should be possible, at least in your establishment. Perhaps, the business model to make this happen is actually completely different from what normally happens. As I have not seen this happening so far with my experiences, my vehicles don't go to dealer workshops! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Dear sir, Thank you for your valuable inputs. I just went through the threads you have mentioned. Yes, we can try to find a middle ground and like you have mentioned, since ours is a family run business, there are few changes that we could make and see if it makes a positive difference as long as it does not take a toll on our very limited resources. Also, since we are sub dealership, we should be able to afford some flexibility. I totally agree with your view that the business model sometimes fail to strike a chord with customer expectations and reality.

On a different note, I admire your work and have read much of what you have written here, so much so that I have decided to go for a Thar. Love the fact that there were people like you behind that project (not decided by a committee hell bent on making money) and I am prepared to live with some of those minor niggles just so I can appreciate the hard work you people have put into that Jeep.

Even convinced my wife that we somehow need one!!! It could take a while for finances to materialize.



Quote:
Originally Posted by blackwasp View Post
Welcome to the club. This has happened to me as well, but we can only learn from such episodes and avoid such episodes in future.

What I usually do is stay for the first 2-3 services and try to build up a good rapport with the service advisor and tell him the following-
1.Mention to him firmly to follow the manufactures' guidelines.
2.Give me an accurate estimate of delivery and stick with it.
3.I will not be interested in any engine flush, additive, battery terminal protection etc, if it were to be needed, then they would be in the owners manual, or in the form of a letter/notice from the company on its letter head (e.g. special instructions or in my case the addition of a Fastner plate in Vespa ).
4.Payment will be done only after a test drive after service and so will be the feedback. We hurry to get our vehicles back fast and give feedback and pay the service fees.

Once I was changed a bit high for consumables, grease, engine oil etc, from that day I provided the same oil and grease and my free service was actually free. After realising that I could not be taken for a ride, the next services have been touch wood. Reasonable charges and the attitude of the service attendants changed as well for the better.




Some of my suggestions for a 2 wheeler service outlet.
1. I know washing facility is expensive to get (monetary and permission wise) and might need to get outsourced, but this needs to improve, our Activa used to come un-washed 7/10 times due to lack of water, big queue, no electricity etc.
2. Agree with the consumables part, over the day they do add up significantly, but charging for a whole bottle of WD-40 and using only 10-20 sprays is definitely not right. One idea is ask the customer to but a can of it, some grease, and keep it in the storage of the vehicle so that the technicians can use that - I did that and to some extent it worked.
3a. Cleanliness- if I can't make out the colour of the floor, its a big NO-NO for me.
3b. Tools should be clean and not black.
3c. Providing gloves may not be possible always, but the technicians can definitely was their hands from time to time.
4. The waiting room should be adjacent to the work area with a window, or if there are CCTV cameras, why not display the workshop feed in the waiting room TV instead of the daily soaps ?

Yes I know it is tough for the service outlet, but why can't we meet in between of two extremes ? The service guys do a through job and we customers understand the actual work done and pay reasonable fees for the work done ?

Also, understand the actual capacity of the vehicles that can be serviced in a day and try to do that number only. Otherwise proper servicing will not happen. It saddens me to see the SA boast about the number of vehicles they service per day (Honda guy claimed 200 or more per day and he had only 4 bays !! ). The whole lane to the the service center would be lined up and at times double parked with Actives, Dios and other bikes. And the one where I service my vehicle, there are no parked Vespas on the road. All vehicles are inside the compound and that too neatly in a row.
Hello Blackwasp, Thanks for your inputs,

Having camera feed to Television, well I think that could be done but we are still going to have some complaints. There will be that someone saying I saw what you did there and that has/will ruin my ride but for the sake of transparency we could have something like that.

Asking the customer to buy WD40 or grease may not be appreciated by all and customers would not want to have them stored in the vehicle. Let us leave that for now.

Regarding the number of vehicles serviced, put an average margin somewhere between 250 - 350 INR. All salary, electricity and other related expenses plus profit must come from that. Now considering how big a facility it is, you can work the math.

200 service per day with 4 bays!!! was he just exaggerating, 6 service per day on a bay is good/ recommended, 8 is excellent and if you really rush through or have a ton of other resources to move the vehicle around, wash it, one dedicated person to get parts etc. then 10 and that would make it 40 bikes per day. Or am I missing something?

Technicians do not wash hand from time to time, why wash when you have to come back and once again get grease all over I have given them plastic sheets etc to cover the seat and grips.

As for washing, I have just bought a small machine, the one suitable for home use, which can be deployed if there is some issue and the washing facility near by.

Oh, and just so you know, we too run a Vespa outlet here.
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Old 30th November 2015, 08:32   #25
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Default Re: V.L. Motors, Santacruz (Honda 2-wheeler service centre) caught overcharging!

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Welcome to the club. This has happened to me as well, but we can only learn from such episodes and avoid such episodes in future.
I am sure most of us here would have experienced this side of the dealership atleast once

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Originally Posted by blackwasp
1.Mention to him firmly to follow the manufactures' guidelines.
Well this is what they should be doing but they don't. Usually they do the normal oil change and other stuff. Manufacturers recommend quite a few checks to be done like valve clearance and so on but they never do it. Even when you ask, they will say it is proper, basically the person working should have a liking towards his job, which is not the case most of the times.

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Originally Posted by blackwasp
2.Give me an accurate estimate of delivery and stick with it.
Estimates can be given but forget about on-time delivery if you are going to get your ride serviced at the Honda ASC. Maybe Vespa dealership would be better given there would be lesser load compared to other brands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackwasp
3.I will not be interested in any engine flush, additive, battery terminal protection etc, if it were to be needed, then they would be in the owners manual, or in the form of a letter/notice from the company on its letter head (e.g. special instructions or in my case the addition of a Fastner plate in Vespa ).
Not every one is knowledgeable about such stuff. A normal person would like his ride to be in perfect condition and the advisor takes advantage of them by advertising such services. I am ok if they inform before hand that they are doing it and they have the customer's consent but adding it to the job card and billing it without the customer's permission is not done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackwasp
4.Payment will be done only after a test drive after service and so will be the feedback. We hurry to get our vehicles back fast and give feedback and pay the service fees.
Most of the time keys are not handed over unless the bill is cleared. Atleast that is what I have observed with the Honda 2 wheeler service. And there was no feedback taken ever from the ASC or call from Honda to ask about it.


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Dear SRK, Thank you for the kind words and thanks again for trying to see my observations in a positive manner especially after the bitter experience you had at the service center. Sorry I took a while to reply.
I hope the discussion here would help you in some way to provide a better service to your customers
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Old 30th November 2015, 12:10   #26
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Default Re: V.L. Motors, Santacruz (Honda 2-wheeler service centre) caught overcharging!

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Thank you for your valuable inputs. 1. I totally agree with your view that the business model sometimes fail to strike a chord with customer expectations and reality. 2. Oh, and just so you know, we too run a Vespa outlet here.
Dear spd-tkt - thanks for your gracious reply, I appreciate and I feel nice about it. My reply is as follows for point 1 and my question is given below for point 2. I will appreciate your real reply:

1. You must realize and understand the latent desires of your customers when they bring their two wheelers to you for attention. They must leave feeling delighted, every single one. I have achieved this again and again and again in all my interactions with customers, I happen to know the exact process to do this. I also see that this is not implemented, because this is not the corporate deliverable of the workforce of the OEMs. You will benefit when you come out of the nonsense that you are told to do and start implementing.

2. I want to buy a new Activa or a new Vespa. How's the Vespa? I went to the Pune Vespa showroom and got an OK response, but it was nothing more than the standard treatment. So I now know that they do 125cc and 150cc, round headlights (looks good) and rectangular headlights (looks terrible, but it seemed to have a small plastic windshield sort of thingy which was quite nice), closable storage space and non-closable storage space etc. But, how is the vehicle? Will it delight me? Is 150cc with 1BHP more worth it? How is the seating? How good is the pulling power on gradients with pillion? Is the braking going to be stable enough? Will my hands and back pain during long rides? How good is the reliability? Will it actually start every single time I thumb the starter switch? Will the handlebar remain straight? (I am onto my third Dio and I have this problem in all of them within 3000 kms, which is absolutely ridiculous). How good is the tire grip? (the TVS tires in my Dio are absolutely useless, do you agree, should I throw them out?). How does the single arm suspension hold? Will the vehicle track dead straight? Will the paint finish diminish after some time? Will the chrome hold? My first choice is shining black color of course, but they don't make it in shining black color, is this true? Does it make sense / is it value for money at 90000 odd bucks because it is 30000 more than the Activa! I am a little hesitant with the Activa due to the handlebar issue. Please reply, or if you find it inconvenient to do so because of your business, please PM. . I am asking because I am not going to spend 90000 bucks to find out. This is known as "latent desire of the customer"!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 30th November 2015, 13:30   #27
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Old 1st December 2015, 09:56   #28
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Default Re: V.L. Motors, Santacruz (Honda 2-wheeler service centre) caught overcharging!

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2. I want to buy a new Activa or a new Vespa. How's the Vespa? I went to the Pune Vespa showroom and got an OK response, but it was nothing more than the standard treatment. So I now know that they do 125cc and 150cc, round headlights (looks good) and rectangular headlights (looks terrible, but it seemed to have a small plastic windshield sort of thingy which was quite nice), closable storage space and non-closable storage space etc. But, how is the vehicle? Will it delight me? Is 150cc with 1BHP more worth it? How is the seating? How good is the pulling power on gradients with pillion? Is the braking going to be stable enough? Will my hands and back pain during long rides? How good is the reliability? Will it actually start every single time I thumb the starter switch? Will the handlebar remain straight? (I am onto my third Dio and I have this problem in all of them within 3000 kms, which is absolutely ridiculous). How good is the tire grip? (the TVS tires in my Dio are absolutely useless, do you agree, should I throw them out?). How does the single arm suspension hold? Will the vehicle track dead straight? Will the paint finish diminish after some time? Will the chrome hold? My first choice is shining black color of course, but they don't make it in shining black color, is this true? Does it make sense / is it value for money at 90000 odd bucks because it is 30000 more than the Activa! I am a little hesitant with the Activa due to the handlebar issue. Please reply, or if you find it inconvenient to do so because of your business, please PM. . I am asking because I am not going to spend 90000 bucks to find out. This is known as "latent desire of the customer"!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Vespa scooters would be in a different league as compared to the Activa (110cc). They are expensive but you can see that in the quality of the product as well.

In case you are looking to get the Activa 3G do also check out the TVS Jupiter, I felt this was better than the Activa on many fronts.

One more option would be the Activa 125. This is much better than the Activa 3G but expensive as well. I had got the DLX model (with disc brakes and alloys) for around Rs.75K on-road Mumbai (MH-02), while the 3G was being offered at around Rs.60K. There is drum-brake model as well which would cost around 7-8K less than the Activa 125 DLX model
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Old 1st December 2015, 12:10   #29
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Default Re: V.L. Motors, Santacruz (Honda 2-wheeler service centre) caught overcharging!

After reading above incidents with various Service centres, I think TVS service centre in my place (dealer showroom and Service centre) where I service my Wego seems very realistic or very cheap...!!

1st service, total bill - Rs. 260 (oil change)
2nd Service, total bill - Rs. 80 (oil top up 40 + consumable charges 40)
3rd service, total bill- Rs.100 (oil top up 40 + Consumable charges 60)

They never asked or insisted to do this and that like others...
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Old 2nd December 2015, 16:39   #30
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Default Re: V.L. Motors, Santacruz (Honda 2-wheeler service centre) caught overcharging!

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Vespa scooters would be in a different league as compared to the Activa (110cc). They are expensive but you can see that in the quality of the product as well. In case you are looking to get the Activa 3G do also check out the TVS Jupiter, I felt this was better than the Activa on many fronts. One more option would be the Activa 125. This is much better than the Activa 3G but expensive as well. I had got the DLX model (with disc brakes and alloys) for around Rs.75K on-road Mumbai (MH-02), while the 3G was being offered at around Rs.60K. There is drum-brake model as well which would cost around 7-8K less than the Activa 125 DLX model
Dear SRK - thanks for your reply but it does not give me the information that I am looking for. Price is my last priority. "I want the best" and "it must work exactly as I want it to work" is my first priority! So I am asking, is the Vespa @ 30000 increment really worth it? Will it meet my latent desire? Will I not get even one blemish on the chrome? Will the engine purr or strain? Will the vehicle glide or just drive? I don't know, so I am asking! I am not even going to consider anything else except the Activa (in grey or blue) and the Vespa (in black, silver or red) because in my eyes, none of the other scooters look even half as elegant as the Activa and the Vespa. Jupiter does not even come close, it looks "obese" with the rear end sticking out like a bumblebee. Fascino rear at the sides looks "cut with a knife"! Suzuki Access front mudguard looks "oh-so-big and bloated" and the Hero whatever looks "dhinchak". Also, I really do not care if I get the telescopic suspension and the disc brakes or not, I am not going to race the thing! I want it to work properly, that's all! Anyways, let's see!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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