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Old 30th November 2015, 19:05   #16
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Default Re: Govt mulls over separate driving licence for high-end bikes

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The following is an interesting part since we love horns in India.

The horn automatically starts blaring when a vehicle approaches an accident site. The government is also planning to incorporate these provisions in the new motor vehicles bill, said the official
Why, is it not possible to keep a horn that sounds automatically right from switching on the bike till switching it off?! That way, even ambulances cannot be heard.
While on paper, automatic honking in accident prone curves, seem like an interesting solution, it will create nuisance actually.
These days, many people honk in an unmindful way, while even going on a straight road. We have become used to this honking, so much that, we cannot hear normal horns, and hence we buy louder and louder horns with varying tones to differentiate ours from others. Still nobody bothers while someone honks! Reason? We have been trained to never mind honking and focus on what is in front of us!
If such a honking solution has to be implemented, first unnecessary honking has to be stopped, by strict policing and penalizing such acts.
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Old 30th November 2015, 20:07   #17
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Default Re: Govt mulls over separate driving licence for high-end bikes

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Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
Hope this one works out.

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/...e-licence.html

As per a proposal,
  • separate license for 500cc and up
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Superb move! Riding a big bike requires an entirely different skill set & rider talent than a 150cc commuter.
Just a thought.
Would it not be better for the government to junk the cc of the engine as a parameter and rather bring in the engine output. Lets say something above 20 or 25 hp bikes?
With a capping on the engine cc, the RE 350's produce 14 hp whereas the 500's produce a humble 18 hp. Some of our popular automatic scooters produce 9-10 hp !
Compare this to some other 250cc bikes which bring out much larger output.

Engine output based parameter would be more apt IMHO.

In true sense the 350cc RE would be a commuter .Maybe even the 500 And then people like me will have to bother to get another set of license for a commuter

Last edited by vinit.merchant : 30th November 2015 at 20:11.
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Old 30th November 2015, 20:16   #18
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Default Re: Govt mulls over separate driving licence for high-end bikes

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Originally Posted by vinit.merchant View Post
Engine output based parameter would be more apt IMHO.

In true sense the 350cc RE would be a commuter .Maybe even the 500
This is how it is already done in EU countries:

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A1: Motorcycles with a cylinder capacity not exceeding 125 cubic centimetres and a power not exceeding 11 kW; and motor tricycles with a power not exceeding 15 kW.
RE's have always been pretty much A1 category commuter bikes. It's only in the minds of Indian fans that they are conceived as powerful bikes.
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Old 30th November 2015, 21:12   #19
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Default Re: Govt mulls over separate driving licence for high-end bikes

Definitely makes sense. I feel they should also encourage full gear for those riding bikes with a displacement of over 500cc. I have seen some people ride their litre bikes and shorts and a t-shirt (no helmet either) sometimes which really bothers me. That's just an invitation for death or serious injury. As vinit.merchant said, this could be based on power as well. However, I feel they shouldn't just take power or displacement but the weight and category of the bike as well. Such a thing should exist for cars, too!

Someone in the thread mentioned having bike companies to conduct a training session which is a really good idea, but it would increase costs so I doubt that will happen. The only place I can imagine such a place happening is on a track where there's ample space for high speed runs as well as low speed maneuvering training. Since not many cities have a proper track, I doubt this will work. However, a video or some sort of simulator could be set up with help from the government to help riders (and drivers of super fast cars) increase the control.
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Old 30th November 2015, 21:16   #20
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Default Re: Govt mulls over separate driving licence for high-end bikes

Post deleted by the Team-BHP Support : Please do NOT post messages that add little or no informational value to the thread. We need your co-operation to maintain the quality of this forum.

Please read our rules before proceeding any further. We request you to post ONLY when you have something substantial to add to a discussion.

Last edited by GTO : 1st December 2015 at 11:32.
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Old 30th November 2015, 21:44   #21
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Wow! It's a good thing. But don't the babus realise better road conditions itself can also bring that number down?
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Old 1st December 2015, 11:35   #22
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Default Re: Govt mulls over separate driving licence for high-end bikes

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A manufacturer would never fail anyone in this test, because it would directly impact their sales - where the global average is only about a 20% pass rate for this category.
Like Ford's DSFL program, you get a certificate of participation. No one passes, no one fails. Am sure that 90% of participants will be sensible enough to learn & improve their skills. The idiotic 10%? No training in the world can help them anyway.

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Would it not be better for the government to junk the cc of the engine as a parameter and rather bring in the engine output. Lets say something above 20 or 25 hp bikes?
Smart .
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Old 1st December 2015, 15:36   #23
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Default Re: Govt mulls over separate driving licence for high-end bikes

Would have been wiser if it was based on the power the motorcycle produces than its engine displacement. In the hands of an average Joe, a 500cc Royal Enfield which produces 27 odd bhps would be far less dangerous than a Duke 390 producing 44 Bhp. Keeping engine displacement as a criteria is unscientific.
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Old 1st December 2015, 16:47   #24
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Default Re: Govt mulls over separate driving licence for high-end bikes

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In the hands of an average Joe, a 500cc Royal Enfield which produces 27 odd bhps would be far less dangerous than a Duke 390 producing 44 Bhp.
That is an incorrect assumption. Road safety instructors who impart cc class based training and certify riders are more concerned in knowing how safely and quickly a rider reacts to an emergency and brings a bike to stop without impacting the safety of others on the road, NOT how quickly one can accelerate away. They have strict speeding laws & speed cameras to deal with that.

With this criteria in mind, an underpowered but heavy 500cc Bullet in the hands of a novice is a lot more dangerous than the KTM390 in an emergency situation.

Therefore, if we want to copy over the right habits from EU nations, the focus of cc class based training should be on testing the rider's safety abilities and not so much on the machine.

The ratio is typically 80% road safety topics and 20% machine specific in EU. It's all about safety, safety & safety and this is drilled in repeatedly over a long period of time till it becomes second nature to a rider.

It would also be interesting to see what the govt does with the lower class of A1 and mopeds classification. In Europe this classification exists to keep this category away from expressways which have a minimum road speed limit.

Whereas we still struggle to keep animals, bullock carts, rickshaws, tempos and tractors away from our highways.
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Old 1st December 2015, 18:20   #25
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Default Re: Govt mulls over separate driving licence for high-end bikes

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That is an incorrect assumption. Road safety instructors who impart cc class based training and certify riders are more concerned in knowing how safely and quickly a rider reacts to an emergency and brings a bike to stop without impacting the safety of others on the road, NOT how quickly one can accelerate away. They have strict speeding laws & speed cameras to deal with that.

With this criteria in mind, an underpowered but heavy 500cc Bullet in the hands of a novice is a lot more dangerous than the KTM390 in an emergency situation.

Therefore, if we want to copy over the right habits from EU nations, the focus of cc class based training should be on testing the rider's safety abilities and not so much on the machine.

The ratio is typically 80% road safety topics and 20% machine specific in EU. It's all about safety, safety & safety and this is drilled in repeatedly over a long period of time till it becomes second nature to a rider.

It would also be interesting to see what the govt does with the lower class of A1 and mopeds classification. In Europe this classification exists to keep this category away from expressways which have a minimum road speed limit.

Whereas we still struggle to keep animals, bullock carts, rickshaws, tempos and tractors away from our highways.

I quote as said by uncle Ben, "With great power comes great responsibility!. I think this suits here.

Correct me if I am wrong, EU licensing system also takes power output into consideration along with cc.
Should be fair to follow the same here.
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Old 1st December 2015, 18:38   #26
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Default Re: Govt mulls over separate driving licence for high-end bikes

I don't think this (separate license to drive bikes of over 500cc displacement) is the immediate need of the hour.

Reason: The guys driving motorcycles over 500cc are generally good drivers compared the many youngsters driving Duke 200s and 390s dangerously.

The issue that requires the attention of the authorities is filling the loopholes in the licensing system. We must make the process of getting a license a good learning experience for all newbie drivers. It's one of the ways to incorporate discipline in motorists, other than strict implementation of rules with large fines.
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Old 1st December 2015, 18:51   #27
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Default Re: Govt mulls over separate driving licence for high-end bikes

As a big fan of Spiderman franchise, I whole heartedly agree with that.

You are correct in your observation that the EU system also takes the power output into consideration. But as I shared in the post above, it's partially for exactly the opposite reasons - to keep 16yo's, mopeds and underpowered bikes out of the high speed expressways.

The A2 class is pretty much the most common category there for majority of bikers. Then some EU countries also have an A category license for litre class & above bikes. One can also take additional private lessons voluntarily.

That said, the focus of official licensing regime is still pretty much the same - to teach the rider how to be safe on the streets and how to keep other road users safe, regardless of class of bike. For higher cc categories, the safety drills & tests in the currriculum just keep getting tougher & tougher.
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Old 1st December 2015, 20:18   #28
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Default Re: Govt mulls over separate driving licence for high-end bikes

This is a much-needed legislation, but I am not too convinced with the idea of licensing based on engine capacity. It would be much better to categorize based on the power made by the engine, like in Europe. Restrictions must also be based on age. In the past, there have been too many instances of kids in their teens riding a superbike to their deaths. It must be mandatory for riders to start with sub-250 cc bikes and then progress to bigger ones only if they have a clean record.
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Old 1st December 2015, 21:11   #29
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Default Re: Govt mulls over separate driving licence for high-end bikes

The challenge is always in the implementation. People still get licenses whether they are skilled or not. I see so many car and bike riders every day driving in wrong lanes, driving in the middle or two lanes and a load of such things. The overall license issuing mechanism should be strong enough to ensure skill before issuing licenses. It should be applicable to all licenses and specifically for high power cars and bikes. Extend it to cars with more than 200bhp perhaps? All the young blood on these high powered machines should be skilled to enjoy these. It shouldnt just be a matter of money to ride them.
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Old 2nd December 2015, 07:59   #30
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Default Re: Govt mulls over separate driving licence for high-end bikes

I tend to disagree with this proposal. Firstly the government (central and all states) need to clean up their licensing and RTO establishments. A new superbike/super car license is of no use if all they are checking is a figure of 8, some random signboard knowledge and some palm greasing. That too is not mandatory if the 'saheb' is busy collecting bribes else where.
A system which checks knowledge along with a medical for eyesight, audiometry, color perception and some basic medical fitness is required. A certificate from an authenticated riding school which teaches basic riding techniques and superbike handling skills is required, if its only a certificate each super bike showroom will attach it with your rc book. Also its not just a young age thing as most members here seem to be saying, infact a 60/65 year old may not have the necessary hand eye coordination to tame a machine which does 0-100 in 3/4 seconds!!, that's where a medical evaluation becomes mandatory. Also license should not be for life, but reviewed every 3/5 years depending on age with a mandatory medical before that.
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