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Old 3rd March 2016, 06:57   #46
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Default Re: Heel-Toe Gear Shifter & Kick Start not present on high-end bikes. Why?

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Originally Posted by ACM View Post

There is no pleasure or charm in shifting gears .
Have to disagree here as an enthusiast

Please do not take away the feel & the charm of changing gears & let me keep the revs just near the red-line if situation so demands it or if I wish to ride it so.
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Old 3rd March 2016, 09:46   #47
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Default Re: Heel-Toe Gear Shifter & Kick Start not present on high-end bikes. Why?

I belong to the generation that believed automatic gears were for "sissies" and avoided the KH for that very reason! I don't think the present generation feels that way. At least about scooters. Bikes evoke different feelings, and a manual shift is indeed considered macho.

Macho or not, I find a manual shifter very satisfying to use. And without them, I think the tachometer will have no use!
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Old 3rd March 2016, 16:04   #48
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Default Re: Heel-Toe Gear Shifter & Kick Start not present on high-end bikes. Why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM View Post
There is no pleasure or charm in shifting gears or kick-starting both should go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
Please do not take away the feel & the charm of changing gears & let me keep the revs just near the red-line if situation so demands it or if I wish to ride it so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
Macho or not, I find a manual shifter very satisfying to use. And without them, I think the tachometer will have no use!
There will always be a difference of opinion in the debate on manual vs automatic. Each side will vehemently try to defend their respective choice. And the discussions can go on till the cows come home.

My simple appeal to the manufacturers is that "Give options and let me decide if I want to buy an automatic or manual.". Just like there are people who prefer manuals there might be a sizeable market out there for automatics as well.

The flaw with the market surveys is, How can you ask a potential customer to choose between a manual or automatic when he has not experienced similar vehicles on these 2 platforms? The minute somebody talks of an automatic two-wheeler, up pops in the head the image of an Activa.

In the current scheme of things comparing manual and automatic two-wheelers is like comparing apples and oranges.

Now to flip the argument, how many manual scooters do we see nowadays compared to the 80s and 90s? Why are the automatics ruling the roost here?

Coming back to the topic, I suspect economic considerations had a large role to play in the disappearance of the Heel-Toe Shifter and the Kick Start rather than any attempt by the manufacturers to get customers to buy into the idea of an automatic. After all weight saved is money saved.
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Old 3rd March 2016, 21:49   #49
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Default Re: Heel-Toe Gear Shifter & Kick Start not present on high-end bikes. Why?

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Originally Posted by BeantownThinker View Post
The flaw with the market surveys is, How can you ask a potential customer to choose between a manual or automatic when he has not experienced similar vehicles on these 2 platforms? The minute somebody talks of an automatic two-wheeler, up pops in the head the image of an Activa.
I do respect your opinion as well as that of others. In 2 wheelers I do agree that you can't really compare and that, maxi-scooters are yet to make it to India but I would still buy a manual. In a car as well.

Horrible commutes to office? I may buy an Activa or at AT car but do take this into consideration that I do not enjoy those commutes [am sure none of us do ]

But for pleasure, I will always pick an MT, come what may.
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Old 4th March 2016, 00:16   #50
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Default Re: Heel-Toe Gear Shifter & Kick Start not present on high-end bikes. Why?

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Originally Posted by BeantownThinker View Post
My simple appeal to the manufacturers is that "Give options and let me decide if I want to buy an automatic or manual.". Just like there are people who prefer manuals there might be a sizeable market out there for automatics as well.
When there is enough demand, the manufacturers will make it happen. Even in the international markets where Maxi scooters are available, geared bikes rule the roost

And wanting gears on a bike is not just a macho thing, its a riding dynamics thing. Depending on the situation; I would want my rear wheel to spin faster / slower to effectively manage a situation. This is something a gear- clutch combo will let me do

But more importantly, if I am thinking automatic; I am thinking comfort over performance. If comfort is the prime criteria here, why not go the whole hog? I want a scooter then. I want that big sofa seat for me and the pillion, massive underseat storage, a more than comfy perch for my feet as opposed to the tiny twig like rearsets; and all of this at a (usually) lower purchase price than a motorcycle

Lastly, its important to understand that for an entusiast; motorcyling is all about having fun. FUN, that no flaccid automatic can provide me with. Going down the BICs straight with the speed hovering around 170 KPH, coming up on a corner, hammering down 3 gears, relentlessley blipping the throttle each time and finally going through the curve is not something that can be explained. It has to be experienced
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Old 4th March 2016, 07:33   #51
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Default Re: Heel-Toe Gear Shifter & Kick Start not present on high-end bikes. Why?

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Originally Posted by BeantownThinker View Post
My simple appeal to the manufacturers is that "Give options and let me decide if I want to buy an automatic or manual.". Just like there are people who prefer manuals there might be a sizeable market out there for automatics as well.
They already did, in semi-automatic form. Means there was no clutch, you directly operate the gears. Remember Hero-Honda Street and TVS Cento (or was it Centro)? Both bombed. So all companies wait for someone else to test the water.
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Old 6th March 2016, 18:16   #52
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Default Re: Heel-Toe Gear Shifter & Kick Start not present on high-end bikes. Why?

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Originally Posted by SamarthMehrotra View Post
The Toe shifter is bad for the rider and his shoes. Somehow, stucking my toes between the footpeg and the lever to upshift is not very comforting; especially if one gets into an accident. I consider it to be an ergonomic hazard.
Exactly, now extending your argument, I am sure people who ride bikes with only a toe shifter realise, that it is impossible to keep the toe constantly on the shift lever, one has to make a conscious effort to engage the shifter by putting the foot under it/over it to make gear changes. This is a big safety feature which 'prevents' a rider from unconsciously changing gears, especially in panic situations.
Now compare this with a heel toe shifter, a panicked rider may unconsciously change gears when he/she presses down on the pegs/rear shifter during say a tight turn, we all know how that will turn out don't we?
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Old 25th March 2016, 11:30   #53
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Default Re: Heel-Toe Gear Shifter & Kick Start not present on high-end bikes. Why?

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Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
Exactly, now extending your argument, I am sure people who ride bikes with only a toe shifter realise, that it is impossible to keep the toe constantly on the shift lever, one has to make a conscious effort to engage the shifter by putting the foot under it/over it to make gear changes. This is a big safety feature which 'prevents' a rider from unconsciously changing gears, especially in panic situations.
Now compare this with a heel toe shifter, a panicked rider may unconsciously change gears when he/she presses down on the pegs/rear shifter during say a tight turn, we all know how that will turn out don't we?
So, further extending your argument, Toe-Heel Shifter also requires a conscious effort to shift gears; hence contains your 'safety feature' just that it has no chances of your shoe getting stuck under the toe shifter. And what's with the 'unconscious' shifting? That kind of wrong gear riding is not insured against in toe-shifters too!
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Old 25th May 2016, 12:40   #54
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Default Re: Heel-Toe Gear Shifter & Kick Start not present on high-end bikes. Why?

I just got myself a Gear sock from aliexpress.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/RYDER...ddresstype=600

The fit is not perfect in terms of contour but its definitely perfect in terms of tightness.Absolutely no difference felt in shift feel which is good. And the price I paid was around $1.76 ~ 110 Bucks. All in all happy.


Also while searching for this on tbhp earlier I came across the below post where the user paid Rs1000. It is sad that these stores that cater to niche segments price such things so exorbitantly . One might argue original vs imitation, though i feel that all these products are same and I just bought mine from the original supplier. Even if it so, what does originality matter in 3 inch silicon/rubber sleeve that fits on your gear shifter ?? Anyways I am happy and so are my shoes!

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/superb...ml#post3414582 (My Triumph Bonneville. EDIT: Sold!)
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