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Old 3rd March 2016, 15:42   #1
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Default Rumour: Bajaj-KTM readying a new adventure tourer

About a year back Royal Enfield got the tourers interested, very interested indeed. After all these years an affordable tourer that could munch miles day in day out. Now just when the stage is set for the commercial launch (A fortnight more isn't it), an article comes out ( i am still skeptical about this, to call it a news) which claims what the whole breed had wanted, A KTM Tourer.! check this out

Article: AutocarPro:Bajaj Auto-KTM alliance readies adventure-touring bike to take on Royal Enfield
Quote:
The company, which kick-started a trend of street models in India with the Pulsar and took it a notch higher with KTMís 200 and 390 Duke models, is now all set to popularise the upcoming adventure-tourer category in the midsize motorcycle segment.
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Old 3rd March 2016, 16:01   #2
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Default re: Rumour: Bajaj-KTM readying a new adventure tourer

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Originally Posted by Arvin_86 View Post
Now just when the stage is set for the commercial launch (A fortnight more isn't it), an article comes out ( i am still skeptical about this, to call it a news) which claims what the whole breed had wanted, A KTM Tourer.!AutocarPro:Bajaj Auto-KTM alliance readies adventure-touring bike to take on Royal Enfield
Being that it's made the rounds a couple times before, I think it's right to be skeptical.

But the other reason I'd be skeptical, even if it is true news, is that the 200/390 engines are both high-rpm-powerband type engines that have not proven very ideal for high-range touring; and being considerably oversquare (large bore/short stroke) by design, it is doubtful whether they could even be appropriately re-tuned for such diverse uses.

Royal Enfield did the right thing by starting with a fresh, purpose-built design and placing considerable importance on lower-end torque and tractability, while extending the rpm range and refinement levels; And I suspect that unless some other, extremely well-hidden big surprise comes along, competing companies who failed to see the writing on the wall five years ago are going to be playing catch-up for quite awhile.

-Eric

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Old 3rd March 2016, 20:43   #3
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Default re: Rumour: Bajaj-KTM readying a new adventure tourer

Was about to put in my money on the Himalayan, looks like will need to wait for some time now..
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Old 3rd March 2016, 21:38   #4
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This is totally untrue. I have a feeling is been cooked up to act as a spoiler to the himalayan launch. This is too big to not be launched at eicma first before a roll out like all other ktm models, and I think ktm are completely focused on the new generation motorcycles for next year.

A 200 adventure is just ridiculous. I expect the adventure to only come with the 890 really. Even the 500 twin adventure is a distant bet.

And why would anyone launch a whole new target segment model based on an engine that's going to pretty much see the bin in a few months. Unless they have a whole new engine and frame ground up for this which is highly unlikely.

That said I think visor down or cycle world reported on adventure models being shipped to Bajaj via information gleaned from zauba sometime mid last year. Don't know what to make out of that one.

I still bet: Not going to happen.

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Old 4th March 2016, 01:02   #5
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Default re: Rumour: Bajaj-KTM readying a new adventure tourer

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Originally Posted by ringoism View Post

But the other reason I'd be skeptical, even if it is true news, is that the 200/390 engines are both high-rpm-powerband type engines that have not proven very ideal for high-range touring; and being considerably oversquare by design
Nobody's even sure what these (KTM) guys are upto.
But i am sure there are many who feel, if only duke had a little more relaxed riding posture, a little bigger tank may be. This what they would want to cash in, if at all they come out with an adventure. What himalayan has done is that it has shown the way, its shown them there is a pretty huge group waiting to grab an affordable tourer.

While it is true, oversquare engines loses out on the low end torque, that is only in comparison with an engine of similar size. It surely doesn't mean oversquare engines can't be used for high range touring. The most awaited tourer which launched a couple of months back, versys 650 has an oversquare engine for that matter. No one would ever say versys isn't torquey. And KTM, for one, is surely not known for butter smooth engines, and all their famed adventure series are oversquare. Of course they need to map it appropriately
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Old 4th March 2016, 08:56   #6
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Default re: Rumour: Bajaj-KTM readying a new adventure tourer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arvin_86 View Post
Nobody's even sure what these (KTM) guys are upto.
But i am sure there are many who feel, if only duke had a little more relaxed riding posture, a little bigger tank may be. This what they would want to cash in, if at all they come out with an adventure. What himalayan has done is that it has shown the way, its shown them there is a pretty huge group waiting to grab an affordable tourer.

While it is true, oversquare engines loses out on the low end torque, that is only in comparison with an engine of similar size. It surely doesn't mean oversquare engines can't be used for high range touring. The most awaited tourer which launched a couple of months back, versys 650 has an oversquare engine for that matter. No one would ever say versys isn't torquey. And KTM, for one, is surely not known for butter smooth engines, and all their famed adventure series are oversquare. Of course they need to map it appropriately
While the 390 is geared too much for higher speeds, the upcoming 500 twin might make a fantastic tourer.
I am speculating here but I think the new upcoming twins (500 & 800) will come in 3 variants - Duke, RC and tourer.
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Old 4th March 2016, 12:29   #7
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Default re: Rumour: Bajaj-KTM readying a new adventure tourer

If this news is true then kudos to KTM Bajaj for pulling this off (says the ADV tourer enthusiast in me). There is a dearth of ADV touring motorcycles in the affordable category. Bajaj with its built to cost expertise and KTM with its global ADV touring pedigree will be a perfect recipe for an affordable yet powerful ADV tourer. Even if they offer us a single cylinder for now and later upgrade to a twin cylinder it will be great. Eagerly awaiting this and keeping my eyes and ears peeled.
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Old 5th March 2016, 08:05   #8
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Default Re: Rumour: Bajaj-KTM readying a new adventure tourer

I own a 390 Duke and use it extensively for touring. I even take it to the trails, have crossed sandy rivers and rip it hard on the asphalt. The duke 390 does everything you ask from it and when no ones looking, pops a wheelie too without making any fuss about it. That 373cc mill is just about enough for our roads I feel. 100-110 is the max speed you can safely cruise on the highways. And IMO the 390 duke only needs a bigger fuel tank, a raised handlebar and somewhat better seats to be an amazing tourer. As someone who is used to the state of tune of the current engines, I for one dont even feel the need for a different engine/tuning

A 500twin from KTM would be subliminal in an ADV package but there really isnt much need to change it. Maybe improvement to the low end torque a bit will help new riders, and if you're gonna improve low end torque then a linear power delivery would be welcomed compared to the madness the 390 ushers in after 8k RPM.

I am hopeful of this ADV, I was waiting for the trek 502 but if KTM drops a low capacity ADV under 4 Lacs(hopefully a lot less) then they already have a customer
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Old 5th March 2016, 10:36   #9
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Default Re: Rumour: Bajaj-KTM readying a new adventure tourer

Does anyone remember the Kawasaki Anhelo? Bajaj was supposed to launch it years ago. They even had full page ads in the newspapers.
Hope the KTM actually makes it to the market.
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Old 5th March 2016, 16:48   #10
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Default Re: Rumour: Bajaj-KTM readying a new adventure tourer

This is good news. The RE Himalayan comes with a Carburetor and is not equipped with ABS. My concern with the Himalayan was about the motorcycle's ability to perform smoothly in the higher altitude of the Himalayas. It was a revelation to me at the Kari speedway when Suzuki told us that the Gixxer SFs they had tuned for the track were tuned in Chennai, so it ran out of breath because of Coimbatore's higher altitude. Enfield would do well to offer fuel injection, but that could be the differentiation between the KTM as you would rather have a carbed motorcycle breakdown than a fuel injection failure in the middle of nowhere.

I have also heard in the grapevine that KTM is working two twin cylinder engines with the displacement of 590cc and 790cc. The smaller one is expected to be a supersport. If it is as committed as the RC 390, it should make a lovely motorcycle.
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Old 6th March 2016, 10:03   #11
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Default Re: Rumour: Bajaj-KTM readying a new adventure tourer

Once again rumors of adventure variants of the 200 and 390:
http://indianautosblog.com/2016/03/ktm-200-adventure-ktm-390-adventure-launch-223369

The report is also claiming new chassis for the adventure variants. If released, hopefully the engines are also modified/tuned for more lower end torque.
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Old 6th March 2016, 19:28   #12
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If this is indeed true, then they are sitting on a pretty huge stock pile of 390 and 200 engines.

A 590 super sport sounds like the perfect upgrade from the 390. And probably won't break the bank.
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Old 7th March 2016, 00:03   #13
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The link you provided only has the adventure 1190 pics for representational purposes. As the link says, they are most probably going to build this over the existing duke models. The KTM Adventure 390 looks more like a duke 390 with the adventure kit. The duke 390 is unbearable to ride for more than 20 mins, let alone take it for touring. I find the ride quality on slower speeds is also a bit of hassle with the lower gear ratios and excessive heating of the engine. Pillion comfort is pathetic.

For a bike to ride on the weekends I find the 390 nice in quality and parts offered. But with the lack of comfort, the shorter gearing I personally would never go for it.

That's where the case could be made for the Himalayan. But a ride is pending to comment or compare.
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Old 7th March 2016, 09:39   #14
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This rumour's been there for a while. Bajaj was supposed to have started work on this in 2013, but it's not substantiated as yet. It's supposed to have a whole new frame. If they launch this in April, it'll be a huge setback for the Himalayan.

BTW, it's a myth that the 390 Duke is not great for touring. I recently did a Mumbai-Dandeli trip much more comfortably than the last time I did that route on my RE. The hard seat is actually more comfortable compared to soft seats when you are touring.

Many 390s comfortably do the Leh-Srinagar kind of circuits with just the tyres being changed to Ralco or Ceat. Now if this ADV version (if it's real) comes with suitable suspension, gearing and tyres, it'll blow away most other ADV options just with the weight advantage. Only nice to have wish from this would be a comfortable seat for the pillion. Damn, looks like I'll end up with two 390s now

Last edited by anilp : 7th March 2016 at 09:46.
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Old 17th March 2016, 23:04   #15
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Default Re: Rumour: Bajaj-KTM readying a new adventure tourer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arvin_86 View Post
While it is true, oversquare engines loses out on the low end torque, that is only in comparison with an engine of similar size. It surely doesn't mean oversquare engines can't be used for high range touring. The most awaited tourer which launched a couple of months back, versys 650 has an oversquare engine for that matter. No one would ever say versys isn't torquey. And KTM, for one, is surely not known for butter smooth engines, and all their famed adventure series are oversquare. Of course they need to map it appropriately
Points well-taken... and certainly a lot of things (almost anything, in truth) can be used for all sorts of touring. Though I'd say a torque peak at 7,000rpm (re: the chart) is getting somewhat out of "relaxed" territory - especially for people more accustomed to traditional Enfield (i.e., Bullet-like) touring relaxations. Hence my use of the word "ideal". It'll get the job done, for sure (especially if it's a 1000+cc twin with inevitably greater torque across the range than the Himalayan will manage). But then again, so will a 100cc Discover (as I saw doing just fine on the Manali-Leh route last time).

Partly depends upon preferences, of course (certainly I've met people personally who felt their D390 experience was less than "great" [re: anilp below] for Leh-Manali (as they felt they had to keep it screaming all the time to stay in the power), so while it may constitute an opinion/preference, it is NOT an easily dismissed myth that they are "not great"). Anyway, KTM knows bikes and biking and probably will come up with a better solution than what's being put forth via questionable channels of "information".

In my case, despite any latent boy-racer tendencies, in rare moments I've been able to truly see the appeal of thumping along lazily in any old gear through beautiful, lonely countrysides, at a couple thousand rpm's (which no KTM or Versys is likely to manage). According to the RE CEO at the time of the Delhi announcement, the Himalayan is aiming solidly at this lower-rpm capability (can't remember, was it this 2,500-3,500 range he mentioned as being the one people will spend a lot of time in?).

******
Incidentally, went with a friend in a high state of expectancy up to the Manali showroom on the 15th morning, having heard that was the official release date (with pricing, test rides, etc). And was absolutely shocked to find that in a place that could probably be fairly described as the most famous seat of Indian Himalayan touring, nothing at all was going on. No bike, no pricing info, no banner, no nothing. Owner claimed he'd ordered one that would be coming in April, and that it would cost something between 1.75-2L. I'd have thought RE might've tried to make a media event out of it up here... what better place to release the Himalayan than... a major biking venue in the Himalayas???

Did I miss something?

-Eric

Last edited by ringoism : 17th March 2016 at 23:23.
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