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Old 4th April 2016, 22:45   #16
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Default Re: Manzil Motors uses my Royal Enfield for transporting wheels!

Only thing i can say is, if you trust the MECHANIC, you dont have anything to worry about. Dont think of me or the statements below as a broken tape. One of the things i learnt owning a bullet was to sit next to it every time it was serviced.

I book dates and take my bullet to the mechanic and usually get my hands dirty when the bike is serviced. I take the bike for water wash, i do the errands including buying spares, and i am usually spending over 12 hours that day doing nothing but supporting my bike when its serviced.

Never once i have been worried about the bike being mis-used. After 10 years today when i go to the same mechanic, i have no fear of leaving the bike there because they always treat the customer bike with respect. They dont misuse bikes but they usually even request me to ride as a owner to carry someone who needs to pick up wheels. They request, and there are customers who simply throw the keys and let the mechanic use the bike.

As i said first, trust is critical. And to be honest, my bike was never serviced by RE after the first service. Never bothered to waste time with RE.
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Old 4th April 2016, 23:44   #17
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Default Re: Manzil Motors uses my Royal Enfield for transporting wheels!

"A swallow does not a summer make" - famous proverb.

As an owner of a Royal Enfield bike, I understand my post might come across as being partial but here are my thoughts on this situation. Write to RE customer care, they will look into it for sure. I have written to them on different issues and have been happy with their response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deep_Shri View Post
Yesterday I gave the bike for its second free service at 11.02am. I had some work so left the bike behind and was promised that they will call me once the service is done. At the second service no oil change is done. No problems were reported at the stage of job card opening. 90 mins is the time usually taken for second service. I didn't receive a call from the dealer. I reached the service centre at 6.10pm to find that my bike was nowhere to be seen.
I dont know about the situation over there but in Bangalore it is the fair first come first serve policy for service. A bike that comes in at 9 AM will be serviced before a bike that comes in at 11 AM. So even if it were a 90 minute job, the fact that it was dropped off so late would have meant that it was ready in the evening only.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deep_Shri View Post
The normal test ride is 2-3 kms and exceeds that only when a problem is reported. My bike was driven for 10kms.

Questions that were running in my mind were: (i) am i over-reacting? Is it not impropriety to use my bike for anything without my permission and exceeding the brief? I gave my bike for service. If it was to be used for anything else did it not require my permission? (ii) Is it not a breach of trust on the part of the dealer?
You are right, your bike shouldnt have been taken for errands like that.

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Originally Posted by Deep_Shri View Post
(iii) What is the guarantee that they have not changed the parts while I was away? What is the thin line dividing a minor misdemeanour from a major one?
Whoa, where did this come from? Any evidence (even hearsay) to substantiate this concern? Yes, they did something wrong when they took it for an errand but where did the replacement of parts come from?

On a lighter note, was there a Skoda sticker lying around somewhere

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deep_Shri View Post
Wonder if going with a cheap brand always necessarily engenders dealing with people with cheap value systems
Again - whoa, where did this come from? One joy ride in one SVC makes the whole Royal Enfield brand cheap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deep_Shri View Post
Question is what is the recourse? I am pretty certain that the Company will be inclined to turn a blind eye to this "minor" issue as sales are important, the topline is important. At best the person riding the bike will be fired which the Manzil Motors owner offered to do.
Write to Royal Enfield, wait to hear from them. What will firing the person achieve? You think he is doing it without the complicit permission of the owner? Incidentally after the first service of my Jazz, I had given poor feedback about a Service Advisor at a large Honda SVC in Bangalore and at the second service, the service manager confidently told me that they had taken action and she was no longer with them. I pointed out to him that I had seen the lady multiple times during the day which left him baffled.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deep_Shri View Post
Now that I have realised that I bought a cheap brand which will force me to deal with cheap service centres either without or with limited customer service focus and totally devoid of values and principles one recourse I have immediately activated is to get rid of the bike. I have only used it for 1000km but I am selling it. It is better to be without a motorcycle than to deal with such people on a regular basis and get frustrated.
Again - one bad SVC doesnt make all of them bad. You have ridden your bike for 1000 kms. The mechanic for 10. Is it worth selling off the bike for that? I know its the principle of it but think of the bigger picture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deep_Shri View Post
I guess going with Triumph or Harley will accord greater assurance of dealing with more polite and principled people (even though there is no guarantee).
So after your bike was taken for an errand by one Royal Enfield mechanic at one SVC, you want to sell it to buy a motorcycle from either
1. Triumph - Legendary British manufacturer that knowingly sold under powered bikes and tried to cover it up. Currently have their hands full trying to rectify widely reported problems on their Street Triples that the sales guys will tell you dont exist (Trust me, I asked and thats what they confidently told me).
2. Harley Davidson - Legendary American manufacturer that sells an entry level bike with poor brakes and worse tires though these are evident the moment you take a decent test ride on a proper road. In fairness to them, nobody is forcing people to buy their bikes and then in turn complain about being sold unsafe machines.

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Originally Posted by Lalvaz View Post
Deep - You don't ever throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Wait, I typed 500 words when I couldve just + ed your post?
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Old 4th April 2016, 23:59   #18
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Default Re: Manzil Motors uses my Royal Enfield for transporting wheels!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deep_Shri View Post
Dear All:


(ii) To share my experience with Manzil Motors (Gurgaon) the Royal Enfield dealer very recently.


P: (i) am i over-reacting? Is it not impropriety to use my bike for anything without my permission and exceeding the brief? I gave my bike for service. If it was to be used for anything else did it not require my permission? (ii) Is it not a breach of trust on the part of the dealer? (iii) What is the guarantee that they have not changed the parts while I was away? What is the thin line dividing a minor misdemeanour from a major one?


Cheers

Deep
Evening sir.
(i) yes. Sell the bike?! Overkill. Kind of "anger is the poison pill you take to kill another type deal' You've gotten upset, rightly so, but are going to an extreme sir.
Completely unethical I agree.
(ii) I think it's the staff, not necessarily the dealer. Not playing the Devils advocate, but he did offer to fire the culprit I return.
(iii) none. Neither do you have that guarantee for that matter at ANY workshop of ANY vehicle type sir. It's a matter of trust.
They should be more careful & professional


My Personal experience has been a mix bag with them.
I'd booked a twilight Thunderbird 500 in 2014. However due to various reasons couldn't take delivery.
Went to them a few months back to get the bike, was informed twilight color discontinued, so I shifted to Lightning Thunderbird 500.

Went personally last weekend as I thought odd I haven't received any calls in a few MONTHS, was told I'll get it after a month.

Mailed RE customer care, I got a revert in a few hours, call from the area ASM in the next few. I then got a mail from the Manzil Motors director Mr. Singh who asked me to take delivery. Reverted I'll complete paperwork this week but will take delivery in 20th for personal reasons.

Story Point:
First half is horror staff.
Second half, great RE service and Mr. Singh too

I think he's a well meaning man who probably needs just one great manager to help run the show.

Keep your bike sir, and give them another chance to redeem themselves. If not, change the repair guys, don't take the proverbial poison pill sir
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Old 5th April 2016, 02:47   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deep_Shri View Post
I guess going with Triumph or Harley will accord greater assurance of dealing with more polite and principled people (even though there is no guarantee).
It wouldn't. You can read through enough bad instances here on Team BHP itself of service centres of expensive brands. In India, most of the times, the politeness ends at the time you have written them a cheque.
My Dad and I have always made a point to never ever get any of our vehicles serviced without us being physically present next to the car. This practice, IMO, should serve every Indian well and save a lot of people from undue heartburn. Funnily enough, we trust our regular mechanic enough for both, our Bullet and Palio, to let them pick and drop our vehicles for service. It helps that both the mechanics are even more protective of our vehicles than we are.
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Old 5th April 2016, 11:30   #20
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Default Re: Manzil Motors uses my Royal Enfield for transporting wheels!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deep_Shri View Post
But as you would have gauged from the limited riding I have managed it is purely 'shaukiya'. I guess going with Triumph or Harley will accord greater assurance of dealing with more polite and principled people (even though there is no guarantee).

I will also update you in case I get a response from Royal Enfield.

Cheers

Deep
Mate, don't go down the path of equating premium bikes with premium service. From my experience, it'll be the same, only with much higher service bills
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Old 5th April 2016, 11:46   #21
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Default Re: Manzil Motors uses my Royal Enfield for transporting wheels!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deep_Shri View Post
Now that I have realised that I bought a cheap brand which will force me to deal with cheap service centres either without or with limited customer service focus and totally devoid of values and principles one recourse I have immediately activated is to get rid of the bike. I have only used it for 1000km but I am selling it. It is better to be without a motorcycle than to deal with such people on a regular basis and get frustrated.
Cheap brand may or may not always translate to cheap service centers
Premium brand may or may not always translate to premium service centers

Once you realize the above and separate the brand from service centers, you have your solution. Cheap are the people running the show at your service center and many other such service centers across the country/world for any automobile. On a lighter note, RE is by no means cheap considering the kind of premium they charge for their ..em..stuff!
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Old 5th April 2016, 12:20   #22
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Default Re: Manzil Motors uses my Royal Enfield for transporting wheels!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deep_Shri View Post

I have totally lost faith in Manzil Motors. Wonder if going with a cheap brand always necessarily engenders dealing with people with cheap value systems.

Question is what is the recourse? I am pretty certain that the Company will be inclined to turn a blind eye to this "minor" issue as sales are important, the topline is important.

Now that I have realised that I bought a cheap brand which will force me to deal with cheap service centres either without or with limited customer service focus and totally devoid of values and principles one recourse I have immediately activated is to get rid of the bike.
Deep
Friend, you call RE as cheap brand? Their share price is running at 19k. You should be proud that you have one of the India's top rated companies products.

Well, now coming to your issue;
- if not all, most of the service centers, in recent years, do a test ride (may be just as a fulfil companies mandate).
- most service centers are not fullfledged, meaning they would not have end-to-end service support. This includes cars and two wheelers too. On such occasions, some work would be outsourced to nearby mechanic centers (battery charging, tyre works, welding etc).
- generally, during a test drive, a mechanic might also accompany, if they want to get parts/products in above situations from the nearby place. Yes, ideally the SC should be using their own vehicle, but most often they don't.

In my view, until they use the vehicle, through the test drive route, in a controlled way without any abuse, it should be ok, and in your case it was definitely not a test drive, simply because it was take out at 6:00 pm.

Now, if you are completely dependent on Manzil Motors, its wise to show your displease in a subtle way, so that they get the message and be careful in future. But again the fact is, most of the mechanics stay for very short duration is SC and they keep shifting, you may not be surprised if you find your vehicle in a similar situation again!
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Old 5th April 2016, 12:50   #23
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Default Re: Manzil Motors uses my Royal Enfield for transporting wheels!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deep_Shri View Post
Dear All:
The objective of this post is threefold:
(i) To seek your inputs on what recourse(s) is available in the event a car/motorbike service centre engages in malpractices. By recourse I mean an effective recourse.
(ii) To share my experience with Manzil Motors (Gurgaon) the Royal Enfield dealer very recently.
(iii) Possibly get to an end-state where we have a repository of malpractices experienced by fellow T-Bhpians.
Deep
I am not surprised to know about such malpractice by a company dealer in fact even a higher level of malpractice does. Very unfortunately it's the attitude of majority of service handlers in our country. Very rarely companies directly react to such dealer apathy as long as he is giving them sales. LIABILITY, ACCOUNTABILITY, CREDIBILITY are some terms which our countrymen are oblivious to.
I concur with your thought that better to stay away from a product which will make your life difficult than easier and Certainly with the brand too which fails to take serious note of a costumer.
I love the feel every time I ride bullet of my friends 350/500 classic, Electra, Standard 500, old 79 model and many others but realizing the trouble they go through dealing with service centers have always discouraged me and eventually made me to drop the idea of buying bullet.
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Old 5th April 2016, 15:47   #24
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Default Re: Manzil Motors uses my Royal Enfield for transporting wheels!

This is a common practice in most service enters. Did the Service Advisor give you a receipt when the bike was accepted for service? In most casses, the receipt also mentions the kilometer reading when the motorcycle washanded over to the workshop.

I would suggest that you write to Sid Lal. RE is taking these things quite seriously these days. PM me if you need Mr. Lal's e-mail I'd.
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Old 5th April 2016, 16:43   #25
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Default Re: Manzil Motors uses my Royal Enfield for transporting wheels!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deep_Shri View Post
Dear All:

The objective of this post is threefold:
(i) To seek your inputs on what recourse(s) is available in the event a car/motorbike service centre engages in malpractices. By recourse I mean an effective recourse...

(iii) Possibly get to an end-state where we have a repository of malpractices experienced by fellow T-Bhpians....
I feel most of the Enfield service centres are not transparent. I tried all the authorised ones in Hyderabad. 9 times out of 10 my odometer cable was loose after the service. I always check this just after receiving the bike. Even the quality of service is bad. Only thing that will be genuinely included in the service schedule is the bike wash. Also the fuel gauge shows marked difference after the service. They don't even care to tighten the fuel line properly. I twice noticed the fuel line detached from the tap, post service delivery. This continued till a point that my fuel tap hose cracked up, as they always loosened it and I tightened it. Several instances reported of replacing the batteries. I personally know three such instances. I could go on and on about similar incidents but it's not even worth discussing.

One thing I can advise is to complete up your free services with authorised service centres, just for warranty purposes and never look back at them.

Finally I've decided to stay with the bike during every service or repair. It takes up a lot of time, especially with an RE. Many service guys, outside the RE authorised ones, are no different in this aspect. But a lot lot better than the ASC's.
Now service schedule for my Thunderbird includes, me purchasing the 3l engine oil can and other spare parts like oil filter etc. and freeing up my schedule for half a day, sitting with the mechanic fellow and getting everything done, while I watch. At least with this, I'll have a peace of mind.
At times I'll lose patience and think of selling the bike. But I refrain from doing so. Even i wonder how am putting up with all this. That's the addiction of an RE, I feel.

I doubt other brand service centres are this bad. I rarely find a service centre guy with his uniform, on a bike, except for the RE's. I find everyday, at least once, an RE SC guy with his uniform riding a bike. It may be a test ride. But with my personal experience I would say definitely they're misusing it.

Even the complaints are not taken that seriously. I finally gave up writing to them and started searching for an outside mechanic.
If i were in your place, I would have felt or reacted even worse than you.

I wouldn't advise you selling the bike. You have an easy fix. Change the service centre and find another ASC or a trusted mechanic. The thought of selling my bike hit me several times in the past 7 years. But I put in way too much time, effort and money.

I wouldn't comment on Harleys or Triumph, as I never owned one. But I would guess definitely any other brand SC is far better than the RE ones.
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Old 5th April 2016, 17:00   #26
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Default Re: Manzil Motors uses my Royal Enfield for transporting wheels!

Well, dealers using customer's two wheelers for errands is not a new thing.

When I had given my Hero Maestro for servicing, I had seen a brand new Maestro (not even registered) loaded with bike spare parts to the max. I was shocked at this and thought the same must have been done to my scooter too. But, anyways came over that feeling.

To avoid this, you can stay at the service center till your bike gets serviced. Also, make sure there are no tricks done during service. I have seen service centers just washing the vehicle and saying that service is done. Also, engine oil from barrels is used which may be of substandard quality. Thus, I do oil changes at the mechanic for cheaper and also I get to keep a watch on my scooter.
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Old 5th April 2016, 18:06   #27
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Default Re: Manzil Motors uses my Royal Enfield for transporting wheels!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deep_Shri View Post
Thank you everyone for your inputs and guidance. I will write to Royal Enfield.

I guess going with Triumph or Harley will accord greater assurance of dealing with more polite and principled people (even though there is no guarantee).

Deep
Deep! You've answered your own question, that there's no guarantee that Triumph or Harley will accord greater assurance. Don't get disheartened and sell your Bike. This has happened to me even with Luxury Cars also. It's more to do with our values than with anything else.

Go through the experience of a Apple Service Centre in India and in a Western Country, you'll come to know the difference.
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Old 5th April 2016, 18:44   #28
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Default Re: Manzil Motors uses my Royal Enfield for transporting wheels!

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Originally Posted by sam_sant2005 View Post
Before I say your's was over reaction or not, let me tell some things which service centers do -

- Sometimes they just wash the vehicle and say, it is serviced. Yeh may be change oil at the most. Definition of service itself for many service centers is 'washing'.

- Oil - lol. I have heard instances where oil change was faked or taken from another bike's drain or not changed at all.

- Unnecessarily changing parts to increase revenue. Most common are brake pads, chain sprocket etc

- Swapping batteries (happened to me)

- Stealing petrol

- Using the bike for another customers test drive (I have done test drive unfortunately). But I knew it only after I finished the TD or wouldn't have done it. It was an Apache RTR ABS

- Have seen young (probably under-aged boys), abusing the bike inside the service center itself, doing skidding, wildly turning it 180 degrees while on side stand etc.

When you consider the above, I think taking the bike for an errand is much lesser in terms of the crime committed assuming they did not abuse the bike. However I don't appreciate it.

Note: Having raised this issue, I suggest not to visit that service center again in your bike's interest.
Wow, very much agree with your points here and most common across Bangalore service centers.
The service is a mere mockery.
Yes, periodic service could also mean - water service by the Dealer

Best thing to do is to somehow complete your free services at the Dealer (of course under your strict observation - take a day off and go there on a weekday) as this could be a couple of hours job and then hunt for one of the best guy out there in your area and get the service done with him periodically.

Atleast in my case I get my works done locally (I trust this guy) however if part changes are required I visit the dealer and either get it done or buy the spares and bring it to the guy who would happily change them for me.

End of the day regular maintenance with the Dealer nowadays is only helpful for tracking your maintenance record & the resale value of your vehicle.
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Old 5th April 2016, 19:40   #29
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Default Re: Manzil Motors uses my Royal Enfield for transporting wheels!

I can totally understand how you feel about this. My dad used to give me a very simple suggestion to avoid such scenario: Empty the fuel tank before you give the bike for servicing, or just keep very little fuel so that it can be used only while servicing if ever needed. Nothing in this world hurts more than filling petrol in a bike which does not belong to you. No mechanic will ever do that.

Off topic: Our maid's son used to work in Hero motocorp service center. He and his friends took one bike out of the service center to celebrate his friend's birthday. Got drunk and fell off the bike. Apart from losing a tooth, the dude also lost his job and the dealer tried to recover the repair cost from him by threatening and bullying him and his friends.
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Old 5th April 2016, 19:40   #30
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Default Re: Manzil Motors uses my Royal Enfield for transporting wheels!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deep_Shri View Post
Really appreciate you all suggesting that I don't sell the bike. But as you would have gauged from the limited riding I have managed it is purely 'shaukiya'. I guess going with Triumph or Harley will accord greater assurance of dealing with more polite and principled people (even though there is no guarantee).
I totally understand your feelings, I would have been beyond livid. Your reaction is a lot more tempered than mine would have been.

But I would seriously say, don't get rid of your bike only because of this incident. Find another ASC or even a good garage will service a RE. Only upgrade to a Harley or such if you want an upgrade.

Here in Bangalore, Harley service is hopeless. Many parts are never in stock, the dealership has moronic systems and forget ever getting the HD accessories. I have imported all the accessories on the bike myself. Same thing with Kawasaki, while the service on my Z800 has not been bad - many of my friends are furious with the Kawasaki in Bangalore because of it's untrained technicians. And I've heard the HD showrooms in Delhi have very crappy attitudes (Just what I've heard - no experience with them myself).

So please don't expect a better service experience just because you spend more for the "premium" brands - it doesn't guarantee a thing.
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