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Old 9th April 2016, 22:41   #61
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Default Re: 1st bike for 100,000 rupees - Which one?

It is a good pre purchase dilemma to be in. I hope you find the best bike that suits your needs but let me tell you one thing from my own experience with due respect to all bike lovers, you either buy a RE or buy any other ones you have listed above.

If you have test driven the RE before test driving other bikes, chances are you may not like the likes of TVS, Bajaj's etc. I read that you want something for a long period of time and IMHO RE suits this longevity condition the most. In case you are just looking for a point A to B commuter you may buy anything from the Honda, Bajaj, TVS stable but in case you wish to cherish every ride you take on your machine, look no further my friend, its the RE. All the best.
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Old 9th April 2016, 23:40   #62
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Default Re: 1st bike for 100,000 rupees - Which one?

I think the Bullet standard or Electra can be a good choice. I have driven both the UCE and old cast Iron units. UCE is so much hassle free, no separate oil chambers, the centralisation of mass aides the handling.

The old cast Iron units have an old world charm and pulls like a locomotive at lower speeds without twisting the throttle too much.

Standard has a drum brake even at the front but they have the bite because they are quite large in diameter.

If considering the Japs I would recommend Yamaha R15, FZ, Pulsar 200 N.S or even GIXXER.
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Old 10th April 2016, 03:46   #63
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Default Re: 1st bike for 100,000 rupees - Which one?

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Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
Could you please explain as to how an air cooled bike is more reliable than a liquid cooled one?
The simple law of reliability says that the lesser the number of parts, less complex the system higher the probability of it being reliable.

An air cooled bike has none of the cooling mechanisms which can fail. An oil cooled bike can have a bust oil cooler, whereas a liquid cooled bike can have a failed water pump, coolant reservoir and carrying lines, radiator etc.

You may anytime contest the above by saying that XXX jap bike has had no problem inspite of it being a water cooled bike. True but then in an air cooled Jap bike and an water cooled Jap bike the air cooled will always have higher reliability.
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Old 10th April 2016, 07:30   #64
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Default Re: 1st bike for 100,000 rupees - Which one?

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Originally Posted by amit_purohit20 View Post
The simple law of reliability says that the lesser the number of parts, less complex the system higher the probability of it being reliable.

An air cooled bike has none of the cooling mechanisms which can fail. An oil cooled bike can have a bust oil cooler, whereas a liquid cooled bike can have a failed water pump, coolant reservoir and carrying lines, radiator etc.
Well, not so simple! That is like saying a sword is better than the AK 47, because it doesn't have parts that can go wrong!

All cars available are liquid cooled. That does not make them any less reliable! Liquid cooling can give much more power to a same cc bike than an air cooled bike, due to the higher compression possible.

All simple air cooled bikes are also oil cooled. The engine oil dissipates heat, even as it lubricates. They have an an oil pump. Which can fail.
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Old 10th April 2016, 10:34   #65
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Default Re: 1st bike for 100,000 rupees - Which one?

I have been away from motor bikes for a few years now, apart from the Bajaj bikes, i have rode the other bikes. None of the bikes you mention here would feel underpowered since you come from riding scooters.
The Hondas used to have niggling rattles and the Yamaha i don't know why feels like it won't last the 7-8 years you want to keep it.
I still have the Apache 160 from 2008 and believe me it has held up all the abuse i have thrown it (drops, accidents and what not) and still works fine. However, the ride is stiff and the seating position is a bit too much on the sporty side.
If i were you, i will go for the Suzuki, the refinement and the comfort should keep you happy. Since you seem to be a college going guy, two up riding would be very comfortable.
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Old 10th April 2016, 18:56   #66
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Default Re: 1st bike for 100,000 rupees - Which one?

We got a Suzuki Gixxer for my brother. From my riding experience from all the segments, it seems to be a near perfect bike in its segment in a lot of parameters. The naked version was preferred as my brother is a novice rider, it is easier to repair in case if the bike falls down and parking without getting scratches is easier. The lightness helps a bit in handling and performance too.

Coming to the positives:
> The bike has pretty good built quality. The engine feels like it will not break that easily unlike many of the local manufacturers'. The fat forks looks meaty, brings a sense of reassurance and it performs well.
> The engine has enough power and torque for a novice rider and most of the experienced alike. Even with identical figures, it feels slightly more powerful than most in the segment. Sure, you might feel the need to upgrade somewhere down the line. But it is the same case with any other bike.
> The suspension is spot-on with good handling without ruining the ride quality.
> The engine never seemed to strain doing sane speeds on the highway. It had enough bottom end torque to slice through the traffic too.
> The brakes have good bite.
> The fuel efficiency hovers around 50-55 kmpl which is pretty good considering the performance.

But it does have it's fare share of quirks like:

> The short rear seat with low set grab rail is not confidence inspiring if the pillion rider is of above average built.
> It bottoms out on tall speed breakers especially if you are riding with a pillion. Suzuki offers skid plates as an accessory to tackle the issue. Tweaking the suspension helps this a bit too.

There are no perfect bikes. Prioritize your requirements according to your usage patterns and pick the one that seem to suit you the best. And no matter which bike somebody suggests, do take a test ride of all the bikes in the segment and you will know how one differs from the other. The riding posture, power delivery etc. should suit your tastes and not ours.

Hope I could contribute to your decision making process. Wishing you happy motoring..!
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Old 10th April 2016, 19:11   #67
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Default Re: 1st bike for 100,000 rupees - Which one?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KSTejaswi View Post
2. Hornet is immense fun to ride (I personally rate it better than the FZ), but if you don't like the looks, forget it.

4. TVS Apache is a great bike, especially the new 200. Their engines are noisier & the vibrations are higher, but if you don't ride over 50kms a day, it may not matter too much. Do note, however, that street mechanics seem to have an opinion that beyond 5 years, the reliability drops. I've also heard that unless treated with care, 5 years is about the time when you should start looking for a replacement. 8 may be pushing it...

6. The Gixxer is reliable. But, the Hornet is more fun. And the old Karizma is certainly much tougher while being smoother. On the other hand, if you like the looks & will mostly ride in the city, nothing very major against it either.
I have to agree with most of what you are saying, but it seems like you are a bit biased to the Hornet. It is merely a sportier Unicorn with the same chassis. Might be more powerful than the FZ16, but certainly no match to the Gixxer when it comes to thrill of riding. The Gixxer has sharper throttle response, more refined engine, stronger midrange, feels more agile, and has a more confidence inspiring chassis than the CB160 Hornet, anyday of the week. Perhaps you need to try out the two once more mate

Quote:
Originally Posted by swift_guy View Post
As I am typing this, I have fallen in love with the way the Black RTR 180 looks but Yamaha FZ v1.0 looks better built and is a no non-sense bike. Still unsure about Bajaj as there are mixed opinions about their quality and long term use, though the products are VFM and tried + tested. I will visit Suzuki for Gixxer as and when time permits and will update.
Man, according to me, you still need to spend some more time and decide which kind of bike you prefer first.

If you can't be bothered about how involving bikes are and just like the breeze and are satisfied with the dynamics being better than a scooter and that's about it, then go for a commuter bike like the Unicorn or cruiser like the REs.

If you want something fun that offers more maneuverability at low speeds or between traffic, you got to look at street bikes.

1. The Apache 180 is dated and vibey so I'd suggest against it unless you can wait for the Apache 200 with its smoother engine, more power, more features, and monoshock rear suspension

2. The pulsars aren't particularly reliable, but the new ones really don't seem bad. I know a lot of friends with NS200s with no complaints whatsoever. Good bike and poses great value for money IMO.

3. If you want to save some bucks and stick to the 150cc segment, honestly no better bike than the Gixxer150 when it comes to street bike thrills.

4. If the used market is an option, simply find a good Duke 200 and buy it! Not going to bother explaining why it is the obvious choice.

If you prefer more maneuverability at higher speeds and less wind buffeting on quick highway speed runs, go for a sportbike. Decent ones can only be picked up in the used market as a new one would overshoot your budget. Besides you get good deals on sportbikes because most people are either too old or too fat to deal with the committed riding stance so going for a well inspected used deal is a good choice.

1. Yamaha R15 V2. Perfect beginner sportbike. Light, flickable, stable during cornering, confidence inspiring chassis, communicative brakes, smooth gearbox and smooth rev-happy engine.

2. CBR250 go for the CBR250 if you find the R15s riding position too agressive for your taste. You will be able to enjoy better comfort, refinement and power on the CBR250 with the added bonus of abs

3. Karizma is charming and refined and relaxed and all that, but doesn't make much sense against the bikes that I have suggested unless cheap price is paramount. Maintaining it will also be a little more difficult than you think as well.

4. If by some chance you absolutely enjoy the level of high-speed cornering extraction capabilities that a sport bike offers you and are willing to commit to the riding positions and care two hoots about stress and strain and are willing to wait for a sweet deal to come by, buy an RC200.

Cheers!

Last edited by IshaanIan : 10th April 2016 at 19:19.
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Old 10th April 2016, 19:38   #68
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When you say that the Gixxer's chassis is not confidence inspiring, do you think it behaves more predictably under hard braking also, as compared to the CB Hornet? Also, for a shorter rider, I felt that the Hornet's ergonomics (and resulting confidence) were better. What would you say?

But then, perhaps you're right and I do like the Hornet more! Now you've given me a good reason to go ride both bikes back-to-back! :-) One does need to be neutral on such a forum, after all. :-)
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Old 10th April 2016, 21:39   #69
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Default Re: 1st bike for 100,000 rupees - Which one?

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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
Well, not so simple! That is like saying a sword is better than the AK 47, because it doesn't have parts that can go wrong!
I never said sword is better than AK 47 but if you consider reliability there is a higher probability of it being better! An AK 47 has many moving parts which can jam etc etc. You are mixing two terms "better" and "reliability". A product can be "better" in terms of performance, feel, space etc etc but may or may not be reliable.

Another aspect as @sheel has pointed out in case of FI bikes running well upto 1 lakh kms. A product with new technology (say water cooled or FI) can be made sufficiently reliable for its determined product usage. I am not denying this fact! Another example is aeroplanes which are quite complex but are more reliable than automobiles!

Let us not go into the discussion of why Water cooled engines are "better", we all know that!

Point was about the principle of reliability. Another reason the point was made was because as a end user for me or anyone else it should not matter whether the engine is water cooled or air cooled unless and until the new technology is giving us substantial benefits during the planned useful life of the product.


If there is no such advantage seen in the end product due to Water cooling or any new technology, then I did prefer to go for a simpler technology (read less parts, less complex) to avoid higher cost, maintenance and just for the higher probability of being more reliable.

No company publishes any reliability data of their own products or comparison of their products with competitors. In such a situation either we have to wait for a substantial period of time for the product/new technology to prove itself or go with the principle- Simpler the better!

Again I repeat if new technology gives you substantial benefit, we should go for it. But that does not change the principle of reliability. I rest my case here.



Quote:
All simple air cooled bikes are also oil cooled. The engine oil dissipates heat, even as it lubricates. They have an an oil pump. Which can fail.
True!

Last edited by amit_purohit20 : 10th April 2016 at 21:59.
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Old 10th April 2016, 22:49   #70
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Default Re: 1st bike for 100,000 rupees - Which one?

Let us keep the debates and discussions (of off-topic subjects like FI vs Carb) to their respective threads.

I have striked off Bajaj and RE from the list. TVS, Suzuki and Yamaha are the main competitors now. I am thinking of visiting the Service Stations and talking about the maintenance and experience of bike users. Is this a good idea?

Regarding used bikes, if I have to pick a used one I would opt for Yamaha R15 only, be it v1.0 or v2.0. It is the benchmark for me, offers quality, power, handling, looks, reliability, technology, features, good ASS. One question I had was that if the bike is registered in Delhi or UP, would I be able to transfer it if I do not have an address proof in Delhi/UP? I have address proof in Haryana, so should I be looking at bikes with HR registration only?

I will keep you all updated about future developments.
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Old 10th April 2016, 23:54   #71
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Default Re: 1st bike for 100,000 rupees - Which one?

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Originally Posted by swift_guy View Post
Let us keep the debates and discussions (of off-topic subjects like FI vs Carb) to their respective threads.

I have striked off Bajaj and RE from the list. TVS, Suzuki and Yamaha are the main competitors now. I am thinking of visiting the Service Stations and talking about the maintenance and experience of bike users. Is this a good idea?

Regarding used bikes, if I have to pick a used one I would opt for Yamaha R15 only, be it v1.0 or v2.0. It is the benchmark for me, offers quality, power, handling, looks, reliability, technology, features, good ASS. One question I had was that if the bike is registered in Delhi or UP, would I be able to transfer it if I do not have an address proof in Delhi/UP? I have address proof in Haryana, so should I be looking at bikes with HR registration only?

I will keep you all updated about future developments.
The debates and discussions are bound to happen since you yourself are asking these questions in the form of doubts and its the direct result of your main question bro. These guys are extending their knowledge to you and as I had told you earlier you will end up being much more knowledgeable person in the sub 1L category bikes and their technical details and advantages and disadvantages. The Need vs Want question will however remain unanswered as that can be decided only by "you".

Stay away from inter state purchases / bikes registered in other states than yours. Clearly you are overthinking now and getting into the realms of unknown problems. I would advise you to enjoy biking as of now instead of getting into hassles that can be avoided and aren't necessary dear.

Last edited by The Great : 11th April 2016 at 00:00.
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Old 11th April 2016, 06:22   #72
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Visiting service stations to understand regular complaints and getting feedback from mechanics can never be a bad thing!! In my opinion, the best way to do it would be to offer to get a friend's bike serviced (let him pay, but you take the pain for him) and you can learn a lot about your intended purchase, and related stuff (regular complaints, spares availability, costs, repair solutions, etc etc) in a matter of only a few hours!

Interstate purchases are a bit of a pain - please get into that only if you have the time and patience to see it through. R15 may or may not be easily available (in good condition) depending on where in HR you live.
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Old 11th April 2016, 09:38   #73
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Default Re: 1st bike for 100,000 rupees - Which one?

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Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
I have to agree with most of what you are saying, but it seems like you are a bit biased to the Hornet. It is merely a sportier Unicorn with the same chassis. Might be more powerful than the FZ16, but certainly no match to the Gixxer when it comes to thrill of riding. The Gixxer has sharper throttle response, more refined engine, stronger midrange, feels more agile, and has a more confidence inspiring chassis than the CB160 Hornet, anyday of the week. Perhaps you need to try out the two once more mate
Coming to Hornet and the Unicorn 160, yes basically they are the same Motorcycles but the seating position or riding position lets you exploit that chassis much more than you could with the plain jane Unicorn 160.

Coming to Suzuki, it is a sweet handling bike alright, but the seat scoop appears a bit weird [the place where your butt can't go further because of the scoop] and you sit a bit more forward than you should [true for tall riders] and hence the entire geometry appears a bit compromised, but then these are so personal and varies so much from person to person that what doesn't work for me might work for someone else.

It will be really nice for the OP to have a test-ride, detailed ones and share them here for further short-list/discussion and then coming to a conclusion.
My 2 cents :-)
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Old 11th April 2016, 23:24   #74
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Default Re: 1st bike for 100,000 rupees - Which one?

Is it mere coincidence that the RX135 sold for >1L comes right below this thread.
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Old 13th April 2016, 13:01   #75
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Default Re: 1st bike for 100,000 rupees - Which one?

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I have striked off Bajaj and RE from the list. TVS, Suzuki and Yamaha are the main competitors now. I am thinking of visiting the Service Stations and talking about the maintenance and experience of bike users. Is this a good idea?
Good that you are not considering RE. I am riding a Cast Iron from past 7 years and just absolutely love it. But the problem is that it is high maintenance bike - not only in terms of money, but in terms of time as well. You should buy an RE only because you are a die hard fan of them and can live with niggles. Even the newer REs are a pain in the ass. I know this because I have many mechanics (who have now became good friends due to the fact that I own an old RE) and they have told me that one or the other things need attention even on the newer REs.

Go for a bike which can be maintained easily. I have bike riding experience of more than 1 Lakh Km and you don't want to be on a bike which gets you stranded on road.

Happy biking!
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