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Old 25th August 2016, 13:36   #1
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Default BS-VI norms might require all 2-wheelers to get fuel-injection

I came across an article that said that we in India are moving to Bharat Stage VI emission norms. It's probably known to auto aficionados already.

You may be interested in knowing that it is applicable for 2 wheelers also. They all need to install electronic fuel injection systems (EFI). So though we do have some fuel injected bikes right now every single new one has to use this EFI system post 2018.

Our national sales of major bike and scooter companies is 180-190 lakhs per annum. This is more or less equally distributed amongst Hero Honda, TVS, Bajaj and the Japanese Honda. All these 180 lakh + two wheelers have to be fitted with fuel injection systems to meet the new emission norms. A lack of investment on carburetor technology means that they can't be used if manufacturers have to achieve (stay below actually) the required levels of emissions.

That opens up two possibilities. Both good.

Our bikes and scooters will be more responsive and achieve substantially higher average fuel economy.

And of course, the noble motivation of this law to preserve air quality at life sustaining levels.

A Ucal make of carburetor retails at about Rs. 1000/- give or take a few coins. Mikuni is another one I'm aware of. It will be interesting to see if 2 wheeler fuel injection systems can be manufactured at the same or lower costs as a carburetor. I believe Hero Honda did make fuel injected bikes in 2006. Or one bike at least. It was called Glamour. If anyone has used it, please let us know your thoughts on it.

A fuel pump will be a new feature in 2 wheelers along with O2 sensors, throttle position and camshaft position sensors. A fuel injection system, as I understand has an electronic and a mechanical system (collection of related parts) working in tandem. The electronic box is mounted beneath the mechanical one. I looked at my space age advanced OHC injection system. It has a pulley with a twisted wire cable (like a cycle brake cable) running around it on a groove. This pulley rotates proportionately to the accelerator's movement. And this proportionally regulates fuel quantities. Internally magic happens. I haven't deciphered that bit yet.

This above is a very basic explanation. Sensor Voltages, air quantities, fuel quality, atmospheric air temperature and Bollywood box office collections are measured and used in this system. There is a semi-technical video by Yamaha on YouTube. You may take a look.


There are opportunities for various demographics:

1. It's diagnosis, as in cars, is a specialist's job.

2. The fuel pump which is a new entity in injected 2 wheelers can be tweaked for your riding style. I think. If not, then it should be.

3. All local 2 wheeler mechanics will have to quickly update their skills - cities, towns and villages.

4. Diagnosis kits will become commonplace or online (one can always hope).

5. Fuel quality has to improve substantially across the country and be consistently pure petrol if your engine is to get its full emission reduction benefit.

6. I don't know if bikes now have a catalytic converter exhaust. I think it will be needed post 2018. Do buy all the platinum you can find. You'll be rich.

Side benefits:
1. Two wheeler riders will now understand us OHC drivers' rants about O2 sensors.

2. We may see small capacity multi cylinder bikes. I was very impressed with a 1964 Honda twin cylinder bike. It looks like our current hero Honda splendors' grandfather. It was just 100 cc. It's ignition was on the side of the headlight dome. You twist it like in a car. A starter whirs somewhere and it makes a nice treble sound.

3. Believe it or not, Suzuki and Honda have been making 50 cc 4 cylinder bikes since gods dog was a puppy.

If I meet or if any of you meet bike manufacturing CEO's, please ask them why we don't get to play with such machines in India. I mean, 50 cc and 4 cylinders is so cool. The image below is a standard injector. An electro magnet pushes the pin for a calculated period of time and calculated fuel quantities. Then the spring pulls it back to close it.

No offense to Robert Bosch but this is just like a tube air filling valve.

That's it folks. Happy riding. Beep, beep.
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BS-VI norms might require all 2-wheelers to get fuel-injection-image.png  


Last edited by GTO : 30th August 2016 at 21:23. Reason: Moving out
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Old 25th August 2016, 13:48   #2
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Why I think that all 2-wheelers will have to compulsorily move to fuel injection?
  1. Go to the gazette of India publications website and you'll see a draft of rules mandating EFI for 2 wheelers. This was in Feb 2016.

    It does not talk of EFI. It says OBD is mandatory. However the emission norms demanded for BS VI means only EFI can achieve it with currently stable technologies.

    Pages 22 - 39 onwards are in English and talk of upcoming 2020 BSVI standards.
    http://ecmaindia.in/Uploads/image/20...19-2-2016).pdf

  2. Moody's, a rating agency has a website called as ICRA that analyses impacts of all government regulations on major industries.

    Despite its vaguely Indian and automotive sounding name it has nothing to do with India or automobiles.

    The link below is a very odd document. At times, it is a whingeing union leader, sometimes cheery and often flippant like the Titanic's captain.

    Their analysis of the implications of BS VI emission standards for 2 wheelers can be seen on pages 9, 10 and 12.

    http://www.icra.in/Files/ticker/SH-2...20vehicles.pdf

  3. An international automotive think tank called ICCT has a 150 page document on the A-Z of EFI specifically for India, detailed analysis of all current 2 wheelers with EFI and hundreds of punishment grade statistics.

    To save time, go to page 72 and in it look at table 25. Estimated cost of an EFI for 2 wheelers is $160.

    http://www.theicct.org/sites/default...August2012.pdf

  4. Bosch, Germany says that there is another rule mandating ABS for every new 2 wheeler from 2020.

    I have not found the central government document for this bit of news yet. Here is the link to the Bosch statement.

    http://www.bosch-motorcycle.com/en/d...lles/News.html

A tractor is the only vehicle which has flexible and broad minded emission norms.

I seem to recall that Lamborghini was originally a tractor making firm. I think I'll try crop rotation in a 300 Km/hr Lambo Tracto.

Last edited by GTO : 30th August 2016 at 21:22. Reason: Moving your reasoning to the 2nd post of the thread :)
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Old 25th August 2016, 13:57   #3
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Default re: BS-VI norms might require all 2-wheelers to get fuel-injection

Quote:
Originally Posted by hangover View Post
I believe Hero Honda did make fuel injected bikes in 2006. Or one bike at least.
It was called Glamour. If anyone has used it, please let us know your thoughts on it.
Not only did hero honda do it but TVS and Bajaj too have done it. TVS had an apache RTR FI 160 and the initial version of the P220 from Bajaj was FI IIRC. The carbo pulsar came in later to be marketed as the fastest Indian and reportedly one of the biggest carbos around. I had the fortune of owing the Apache FI for sometime and the advantage the FI had over the carbo one is that the vibrations were lower and throttle response was way better.

But in FI bikes, it is always necessary to ensure that the fuel pump is always under petrol else it will get hot and damaged. Given that people in India have a habit of keeping the bikes always in reserve, fuel pump failures will be very high unless they are told of this precautionary measure upfront.
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Old 25th August 2016, 14:22   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by centaur View Post
Not only did hero honda do it but TVS and Bajaj too have done it. TVS had an apache RTR FI 160 and the initial version of the P220 from Bajaj was FI IIRC. The carbo pulsar came in later to be marketed as the fastest Indian and reportedly one of the biggest carbos around. I had the fortune of owing the Apache FI for sometime and the advantage the FI had over the carbo one is that the vibrations were lower and throttle response was way better.

But in FI bikes, it is always necessary to ensure that the fuel pump is always under petrol else it will get hot and damaged. Given that people in India have a habit of keeping the bikes always in reserve, fuel pump failures will be very high unless they are told of this precautionary measure upfront.
This is good information. Thanks.

I did not know about having to keep the pump submerged in fuel. So this like your 1/2 or 1 hp water pump at home. If it runs without water in the sump, then you have to bathe only in deodorants that day.

Perhaps we need to have an additional unusable reserve level for the pump.

It's still a concern for small mopeds or 100 cc bikes with small tanks. And this pump is very critical for an EFI system.

I found out something else. Two strokes will be back. That's right.

They have fewer parts by virtue of their design. Add fuel injection. And Honda decided to patent a 2 stroke EFI bike just last year.

You may read it's technical details here.
http://newatlas.com/honda-two-stroke...-filing/38529/

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 25th August 2016 at 20:47. Reason: merging back to back posts
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Old 30th August 2016, 21:26   #5
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Default Re: BS-VI norms might require all 2-wheelers to get fuel-injection

Thread moved from the Assembly Line (The "Assembly Line" Forum section) to the Motorcycle Section. Thanks for sharing!
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Old 31st August 2016, 02:21   #6
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Default Re: BS-VI norms might require all 2-wheelers to get fuel-injection

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Thread moved from the Assembly Line (The "Assembly Line" Forum section) to the Motorcycle Section. Thanks for sharing!
GTO,
Thanks for moving it to a more relevant category. Plus you, or an automatic software formatted professionally. It looks much better now.
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Old 31st August 2016, 09:28   #7
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Default Re: BS-VI norms might require all 2-wheelers to get fuel-injection

I agree, that to meet Euro-VI (I hope BS-VI does not dilute it) EFI may be necessary for two wheelers. Negative - higher cost, Positive: More power, and better fuel consumption. I hope there is a serious follow up of the recent SCI order on the quality of fuel at the pumps. I frankly will be less upset with a 5% 'short sticking' than 5% Kerosene or Naphtha!
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Old 1st September 2016, 00:10   #8
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Default Re: BS-VI norms might require all 2-wheelers to get fuel-injection

One thing not mentioned about the benefit of fuel injection is its effect on engine life.

Has anyone noticed? Automobiles with carburetors years ago could totally wear out their engines in 100K km. requiring total engine rebuilds.
With the incorporation of fuel injection it is not uncommon for a modern car to travel well over 250 K km before needing an engine rebuild if the owner had it properly serviced.

Carburetors, being the rather primitive device that they are relies on high speed air passing thru the venturi or past the idle jet orifice to draw the fuel upward from the float bowl and allow it to mix with the air.
This almost always results in rather large droplets in the mist which cannot evaporate. These droplets end up traveling into the cylinder.

These can become deposited on the cylinder walls and pistons and piston rings.

Once there, the raw fuel can wash off any lubricating oil from these critical parts resulting in metal to metal contact.
This leads to "worn out" pistons, piston rings and cylinder walls, not to mention the contamination of the oil in the crankcase from any raw fuel that gets past the piston rings.

All of these things can cause wear and make major engine rebuilds necessary.

With a Fuel Injected system, the fuel is injected in a ultra-fine mist which evaporates almost immediately, thus there are not large droplets of raw fuel to damage the engine.

Adding to that the ability of electronic fuel injection to accurately control the amount of fuel being injected at all engine speeds and conditions and it is a win-win for the owner.

Last edited by ArizonaJim : 1st September 2016 at 00:12.
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Old 1st September 2016, 10:11   #9
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Default Re: BS-VI norms might require all 2-wheelers to get fuel-injection

@ArizonaJim; I saw your argument but do not necessarily agree. At one time the good ol' Amby (Inverted bathtub according to my friend Gurkha) needed an engine rebuild in 40,000km max. I think a lot of credit to the modern engines longevity has to go to metallurgy, better build quality (finer tolerances), and lubes. I know in the 1970's when Japanese engines made their significant appearance in the UK, one engine detailer opened one up, found the tolerances so fine, that he had to just close it.
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Old 4th October 2016, 09:56   #10
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Default Re: BS-VI norms might require all 2-wheelers to get fuel-injection

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post
One thing not mentioned about the benefit of fuel injection is its effect on engine life.

Has anyone noticed? Automobiles with carburetors years ago could totally wear out their engines in 100K km

These can become deposited on the cylinder walls and pistons and piston rings.

Once there, the raw fuel can wash off any lubricating oil from these critical parts resulting in metal to metal contact.


With a Fuel Injected system, the fuel is injected in a ultra-fine mist which evaporates almost immediately, thus there are not large droplets of raw fuel to damage the engine.

Adding to that the ability of electronic fuel injection..
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
@ArizonaJim; I saw your argument but do not necessarily agree. At one time the good ol' Amby (Inverted bathtub according to my friend in the 1970's when..found the tolerances so fine, that he had to just close it.
Both are good points. You may also consider advances in lubricant technology. Certain chemicals in lube oils and their properties make engines smoother.

It is possible that all moving parts in modern engines use better heat treatment. You can apply a measured amount of hardness and smoothness to a micron level on metal surfaces.

A few components are nickel plated instead of zinc. This is a better protectant and allows a closer fitting.

The fuel itself may have a higher calorific value due to more accurate distillation and the temperature controls used during it.

Modern tires have lesser rolling friction and your new car weighs at least 200-300 kg less than a 60's model.

Aerodynamics may not matter much to the engine life in comparison to the other beneficial advances at least in this context. Very few of us travel at 300 kmh continuously (nobody knew that Batman was actually GTO).
I think average vehicle speeds have not changed much since Woodstock. It is still about 30 - 40 kph.

Last edited by hangover : 4th October 2016 at 10:01.
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