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Old 27th October 2016, 09:47   #31
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Default Re: Mahindra is bringing Jawa back

Reviving the brand Jawa by Mahindra is something that I am not able to digest well. Deep inside me I feel its just a tryst by Mahindra to capture some bike market which they have not been doing well. And for that they are simply playing with the emotions of many by bringing an old well loved name back. But apart from the name what else is gonna be back?

A new Jawa by Mahindra probably wont be what the 'true' Jawas of yesteryear were. And that will surely not impress the true fans. Well anyway even in all my pessimism I am still eager to see what Mahindra actually rolls off the production line.
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Old 27th October 2016, 10:39   #32
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Default Re: Mahindra is bringing Jawa back

I understand that Mahindra cannot sell bikes with the BSA brand in India as the brand is locked in a legal dispute with an Indian firm.
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Old 27th October 2016, 10:53   #33
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Default Re: Mahindra is bringing Jawa back

IF:

Jaguar-Land Rover can be successful under Tata's ownership
Ferrari under Fiat
Lamborghini under VW
Rolls-Royce under BMW
Porsche under VW

I don't see why Jawa & BSA can't be successful under Mahindra. All that counts is the execution. As long as Mahindra has the right people in charge who understand the appeal of these brands, things should be okay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubhendra View Post
And now its selling more than Xylo, TUV, KUV
Xylo yes. Not the TUV300 & KUV100 which outsell the Thar by 3 - 4 times!
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Old 27th October 2016, 11:15   #34
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Default Re: Mahindra is bringing Jawa back

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
IF:

Jaguar-Land Rover can be successful under Tata's ownership
Ferrari under Fiat
Lamborghini under VW
Rolls-Royce under BMW
Porsche under VW

I don't see why Jawa & BSA can't be successful under Mahindra. All that counts is the execution. As long as Mahindra has the right people in charge who understand the appeal of these brands, things should be okay.
Come on, that's not a fair comparison. Mahindra's Joint Ventures and Acquisitions history isn't all rosy.

Ford-Mahindra
Mahindra-Renault
Mahindra-Navistar
Kinectic Two Wheelers/SYM-Mahindra
Reva Electric Vehicles
Ssangyong

The above JVs have collapsed without much success; their attempts to go on with the JV products independently failed even spectacularly (MULTIPLE times); and lesser said about the performance of their adventure with Kinetic and Ssangyong.

Ford didn't consider Mahindra's offer for JLR because they didn't see a future for Jaguar with Mahindra.

If execution is what matters, then their history gives us as an idea of how it will be.
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Old 27th October 2016, 11:19   #35
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Default Re: Mahindra is bringing Jawa back

Usually companies buy legendary but in dock companies with technical staff and most of the dna intact.

Is there anything thats left of jawa for them to start with ? Else it would be like re-using the name and I am skeptical on the outcome.
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Old 27th October 2016, 11:21   #36
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Default Re: Mahindra is bringing Jawa back

I can't see through their strategy. They bought stakes in Ssangyong and tried selling it with some co-badging. They bought Kinetic and tried selling under their own brand. Now they are buying brands/licenses to sell some more products. At the end of the day, a customer is concerned about the end product. Even if the product sports an iconic brand and but isn't upto the mark, hardly anyone would touch it.

The very first thing Mahindra should do is invest in R&D and strive to make good products from scratch (like the Mojo).
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Old 27th October 2016, 11:28   #37
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Default Re: Mahindra is bringing Jawa back

The advantage Royal Enfield had / has that it was already a 4 stroke. And the only thing that mattered to people was the thump.

The AVL failed mainly because of lack of thump no matter how advanced tech it had compared to the older version and then the UCE came along which turned the luck for RE. It basically emulated the Thump with the advantage of left side gears.

Hence RE and Vespa are the 2 companies who succeeded in reviving the classics. While Yamaha Crux, 4 stroke Kinetic, 4 Stroke Bajaj Chetak, etc are the ones who failed reviving the classics.

Also I have seen majority of people calling my friends Bonneville a modified Bullet. Or they laugh off when they hear the price of a Bonnie vs Bullet.



The BSA is fairly alien to mass public hence its only a handful of people who know what BSA bikes were. - Disadvantage.

And the Jawa's were all 2 strokes, which I don't possibly see coming back in 2 stroke forms. - Disadvantage.

The only thing commendable from Mahindra is they are trying. And trying in all segments. Right from cars to bikes to commercial vehicles. They have a product virtually in all segments. Even though - I would rate them as brave.

Last edited by The Great : 27th October 2016 at 11:30.
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Old 27th October 2016, 12:11   #38
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Default Re: Mahindra is bringing Jawa back

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great View Post
Also I have seen majority of people calling my friends Bonneville a modified Bullet.

The BSA is fairly alien to mass public hence its only a handful of people who know what BSA bikes were. - Disadvantage.

And the Jawa's were all 2 strokes, which I don't possibly see coming back in 2 stroke forms. - Disadvantage.
Mate,
Jawa also has 4-stroker machines in their line up. They have a 250 twin & 660 CC Single Cylinder which should be their initial models to roll out.
Am surprised on their ability to sell their old 2 stroker 350 CC twin in UK. If it does sell then it meets their emission norms. So meeting BS indicators should not be a tough idea. Yes the inherent design of 2 strokers means a tough challenge to meet the emission norms whereas the 4-strokers are more at ease.

Do ask your friends about Jawa when you catch up with them, will be good to hear your feedback from them.

BSA does have an issue but when packaged well by their PR team, do not see it to be a challenge.

You can see the Jawa lineup in their website. (Agreed its not sexy as the other manufacturers but we both know its a matter of time before it gets an overhaul which is long pending.)

http://www.jawa.eu/moto_main.htm?lang=en

PS: Did you buy the Resonate Chargeplus?

Last edited by ku69rd : 27th October 2016 at 12:12.
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Old 27th October 2016, 12:36   #39
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Default Re: Mahindra is bringing Jawa back

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Originally Posted by ku69rd View Post
Mate,
Do ask your friends about Jawa when you catch up with them, will be good to hear your feedback from them.
Surely sir, I think you misread the sentence there. But I will surely let them know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ku69rd View Post
You can see the Jawa lineup in their website. (Agreed its not sexy as the other manufacturers but we both know its a matter of time before it gets an overhaul which is long pending.)

http://www.jawa.eu/moto_main.htm?lang=en
This is why I praised Mahindra for trying and not playing only safe like other players. Even Yamaha took time to realise that and the company was back to track only after introducing performance bikes, before trying to sell all 4 stroke commuter bikes post Rx era.

Bajaj gave up on scooters which was their main forte for years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ku69rd View Post
[PS: Did you buy the Resonate Chargeplus?
The bolt guys have responded and are giving me another unit. Lets see if that works out or else I will buy the resonate one that you have suggested. I have contacted the resonate team for the chargeplus uno but they are out of stock at the moment.
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Old 27th October 2016, 16:35   #40
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Default Re: Mahindra is bringing Jawa back

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Originally Posted by Harshal.Bhosale View Post
Newbie to older generation bikes here - how did this mechanism work really?
You need to press the lever at the pivot point with the side of the heel and flip the full lever anticlockwise and it rests at the kickstart position. You then use the same lever for kickstarting. Once started, flip the lever clockwise and it doubles up as the gear change lever.
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Old 27th October 2016, 20:13   #41
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Default Re: Mahindra is bringing Jawa back

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinu2506 View Post
You need to press the lever at the pivot point with the side of the heel and flip the full lever anticlockwise and it rests at the kickstart position. You then use the same lever for kickstarting. Once started, flip the lever clockwise and it doubles up as the gear change lever.

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Old 27th October 2016, 21:26   #42
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Default Re: Mahindra is bringing Jawa back

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiku007 View Post
Come on, that's not a fair comparison. Mahindra's Joint Ventures and Acquisitions history isn't all rosy.

Ford-Mahindra
Mahindra-Renault
Mahindra-Navistar
Kinectic Two Wheelers/SYM-Mahindra
Reva Electric Vehicles
Ssangyong

The above JVs have collapsed without much success; their attempts to go on with the JV products independently failed even spectacularly (MULTIPLE times); and lesser said about the performance of their adventure with Kinetic and Ssangyong.

Ford didn't consider Mahindra's offer for JLR because they didn't see a future for Jaguar with Mahindra.

If execution is what matters, then their history gives us as an idea of how it will be.
The Mahindra- Jeep/ Willys/ Kaiser Corporation collaboration was pretty successful. Its only when Chrysler acquired Brand Jeep that the collaboration with Mahindra was over and called off, due to the then government's extant policies of indigenisation. No doubt, there were strains with Chrysler over the front grille design similarities between the Jeep and Mahindra off-roaders.

The Mahindra- Peugeot collaboration of the early 1980's for engine manufacturing was pretty successful. These diesels that were time tested on the roads/ no roads of the African continent, apart from other countries were quite suited to our then conditions, though these were quite rudimentary.

The later Mahindra adventures or misadventures with Ford, Renault, Navistar, Kinetic, Reva and its acquisition of Ssyangyong are only too well known.

They have also recently bought a 51 % stake in Peugeot two wheelers that will surface as Peugeot scooters in the market.

The Mahindra- Ford adventure though needs to be commented upon for some praiseworthy moves by M & M. It so happened that while the collaboration was ongoing, foreign companies had limitations to the investment made in an Indian company, so that the control remained in Indian hands. This policy was relaxed during the turn of the century. Even 100 % foreign ventures were allowed alongside. So Fiat and Ford both wanted to bring in more funds fro Europe for modernisation and upgradation of their line-up.

It so happened that Fiat could infuse funds but PAL was financially crippled to invest similar amounts to keep their stakes at the same levels. So the inevitable happened. Fiat bought all agreed-upon lands and holdings of PAL. PAL went into oblivion at Kurla and also ended into a legal battle at its Kalyan plant with Peugeot (Peugeot 309).

But Mahindra was cash rich and saw that if Ford invests in the venture, its holding may be diluted. For the internal reasons not known, M&M decided to part ways with Ford, took back their stake and sent the message that Ford need to find another plant for its Josh machine, the Ikon. Thereafter, Ford shifted lock, stock and barrel from Igatpuri to Marimalai Nagar, Tamil Nadu and the rest is history.

Last edited by anjan_c2007 : 27th October 2016 at 21:29.
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Old 27th October 2016, 23:39   #43
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Default Re: Mahindra is bringing Jawa back

If Bullet can succeed, I find no reason why Jawa can't.
Jawa was a heart thob for many youngsters in the 70s. I started riding a bike in a Jawa.
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Old 28th October 2016, 01:05   #44
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Default Re: Mahindra is bringing Jawa back

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinu2506 View Post
You need to press the lever at the pivot point with the side of the heel and flip the full lever anticlockwise and it rests at the kickstart position. You then use the same lever for kickstarting. Once started, flip the lever clockwise and it doubles up as the gear change lever.
Also I fairly remember there was a model which had the unique "auto clutch" mechanism. Probably the roadking under the Yezdi.
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Old 28th October 2016, 02:18   #45
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Default Re: Mahindra is bringing Jawa back

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great View Post
Also I fairly remember there was a model which had the unique "auto clutch" mechanism. Probably the roadking under the Yezdi.
If I'm right, there was as such no 'auto clutch' mechanism. If you hold the gear lever in one position/pressed inside, it would engage/dis-engage the clutch. It was fun doing that.
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