Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > Motorbikes


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 18th May 2017, 20:15   #16
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 3,478
Thanked: 2,014 Times
Default Re: Some questions on ABS in motorcycles

For Indian conditions, would prefer no ABS on the rear wheel. Encountering a loose surface (sand, gravel etc.) is far too common here. I prefer some braking over no braking!

ABS, like the helmet, is an insurance policy. Best if it is not called upon.

Regards
Sutripta
Sutripta is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th May 2017, 20:22   #17
BHPian
 
The Great's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 584
Thanked: 550 Times
Default Re: Some questions on ABS in motorcycles

Quote:
Originally Posted by payeng View Post
This simple experiment would clear your doubts rather than spending internet data and going through the comments/replies of online bikers (like us).
Thanks a lot for the advice bro. As soon as I recover from my leg surgery I will surely do this.

Meanwhile trying to know other people's take on the technology and their experiences here on this forum.
The Great is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19th May 2017, 00:13   #18
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 587
Thanked: 732 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (5)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great View Post
Thanks a lot for the advice bro. As soon as I recover from my leg surgery I will surely do this.
Most welcome. ABS works on Gravel as well.. just as it's supposed to work . That is by modulating the brakes when the system defects the wheels locking up. Let's one be in control of the bike in instances where one would normally lose control.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
For Indian conditions, would prefer no ABS on the rear wheel. Encountering a loose surface (sand, gravel etc.) is far too common here. I prefer some braking over no braking!
Having ABS doesn't mean NO braking, it just means controlled braking.

On the other hand on off road conditions, one might actually prefer to lock the rear wheels intentionally to be able to "dig" onto the loose surface.

Therefore Single Chanel ABS for me any day. Also on tarmac I hardy touch the rear brakes to stop the motorcycle.

Last edited by payeng : 19th May 2017 at 00:29.
payeng is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th May 2017, 20:24   #19
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 3,478
Thanked: 2,014 Times
Default Re: Some questions on ABS in motorcycles

Quote:
Originally Posted by payeng View Post
Having ABS doesn't mean NO braking, it just means controlled braking.
On the CBR250R (and strangely the Fortuner) ABS on loose surfaces translates to almost no braking. Strangely, don't face the same problem (magnitudewise) in my other ABS equipped cars.

An ABS which one can switch off, good to have though it is, is not really an answer in India, because one encounters the loose surface suddenly on main roads.

Regards
Sutripta
Sutripta is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th May 2017, 22:16   #20
BHPian
 
SandyX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: KL
Posts: 250
Thanked: 496 Times
Default Re: Some questions on ABS in motorcycles

There's an easier way, depending on how well one master it. Tap the front brakes repeatedly so it works like ABS while simultaneously applying slightly less rear braking. Club this with rev matching and this should brilliantly work everywhere. I've been using this from long & it has saved me a fair bit, most recent being yesterday. It has become a habit. On gravel, effectiveness of whatever technique employed depends on sanity of speed but the tapping for sure is working for me.
SandyX is online now   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th May 2017, 22:16   #21
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 587
Thanked: 732 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (5)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
An ABS which one can switch off, good to have though it is, is not really an answer in India, because one encounters the loose surface suddenly on main roads.

I have yet to know of a person who can control a front wheel lock / intentionally lock the Front wheels.

Switchable ABS on the rear wheel makes it an off road mode.. but switching off ABS on front wheels? Why?

Unless of course one might want to Stoppie.

Last edited by payeng : 19th May 2017 at 22:19.
payeng is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th May 2017, 12:53   #22
Senior - BHPian
 
IshaanIan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Hyd/B'lore
Posts: 2,364
Thanked: 2,954 Times
Default Re: Some questions on ABS in motorcycles

Quote:
Originally Posted by SandyX View Post
There's an easier way, depending on how well one master it. Tap the front brakes repeatedly so it works like ABS while simultaneously applying slightly less rear braking. Club this with rev matching and this should brilliantly work everywhere. I've been using this from long & it has saved me a fair bit, most recent being yesterday. It has become a habit. On gravel, effectiveness of whatever technique employed depends on sanity of speed but the tapping for sure is working for me.
There is no way you a human, can "tap" the front brakes faster than an ABS system pulsates so it is definitely no replacement for it. If you want to get good braking, you ought to play to your strengths which is your sensation of touch and hearing instead of trying to act like a machine which you just won't be able to do as well. I'd suggest cadence braking. This is where you squeeze the brakes (not stab them) till you feel you are at the point of lockup, where you release a little pressure then squeeze again. This is not done by constantly "tapping" the brakes as the rate at which a human can do that would mean braking distances are much more. It is a good thing you know how to rev-match or else your tapping technique could prove ineffective someday.

Last edited by IshaanIan : 20th May 2017 at 13:19.
IshaanIan is online now   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 20th May 2017, 16:15   #23
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 587
Thanked: 732 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (5)
Default Re: Some questions on ABS in motorcycles

Quote:
Originally Posted by SandyX View Post
There's an easier way, depending on how well one master it. Tap the front brakes repeatedly so it works like ABS while simultaneously applying slightly less rear braking. Club this with rev matching and this should brilliantly work everywhere. I've been using this from long & it has saved me a fair bit, most recent being yesterday. It has become a habit. On gravel, effectiveness of whatever technique employed depends on sanity of speed but the tapping for sure is working for me.

It'll be interesting to watch how one coolly taps his brake lever under situations where normal a person would instinctively grab the brakes for dear life. For example, "Tapping" the brakes of a motorcycle when a a car suddenly comes out of nowhere. i.e under (Extreme) Panic Braking.




payeng is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th May 2017, 16:51   #24
BHPian
 
SandyX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: KL
Posts: 250
Thanked: 496 Times
Default Re: Some questions on ABS in motorcycles

Quote:
Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
There is no way you a human, can "tap" the front brakes faster than an ABS system pulsates so it is definitely no replacement for it.
No one claimed it is any kind of replacement for ABS, it is just the closest one could get to it with standard brakes. The way i do it is like 4-5 pulse/second for the most panic situations. It didn't happen in a day, i'm riding this way from long. My Unicorn which got this penchant for stepping out of line easily with normal braking never does that anymore, and i do push it legally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by payeng View Post
It'll be interesting to watch how one coolly taps his brake lever under situations where normal a person would instinctively grab the brakes for dear life.
Once you realize a single big squeeze is not gonna help much while carrying speeds, you'll automatically start to learn ways to get around it to stay alive. And once you do it long enough, it becomes a habit & will come naturally. I had to panic brake against a fortuner couple of days ago at decent speed and this is exactly how it played out. It made me stay in line for that extra second to chart a new path. Had i slammed it, i'm quite sure i wouldn't be here to type this now. Again, rev matching is a must.

I mostly walk my bike on gravel & if I've to brake, it's always pulsed as anywhere else. This is all from personal experience & it might totally not work for someone else depending on how it's done.
SandyX is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 20th May 2017, 18:20   #25
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 587
Thanked: 732 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (5)
Default

Always opt for ABS if there is an option- Plain and simple
payeng is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st May 2017, 02:03   #26
Senior - BHPian
 
IshaanIan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Hyd/B'lore
Posts: 2,364
Thanked: 2,954 Times
Default Re: Some questions on ABS in motorcycles

Quote:
Originally Posted by SandyX View Post
No one claimed it is any kind of replacement for ABS, it is just the closest one could get to it with standard brakes. The way i do it is like 4-5 pulse/second for the most panic situations. It didn't happen in a day, i'm riding this way from long. My Unicorn which got this penchant for stepping out of line easily with normal braking never does that anymore, and i do push it legally.
I'm simply letting you know is all. It is a very common misconception among enthusiasts that pumping the brakes means you actually try to pulsate the braking as much as possible I know it isn't a replacement for ABS but at 4-5 pulses it doesn't really benefit from the technique either, I mean it will ensure you do have some level of control in slippery conditions but sheer stopping effectiveness is drastically lost. The closest you can get is to perform cadence braking like I had mentioned above

Last edited by IshaanIan : 21st May 2017 at 02:08.
IshaanIan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21st May 2017, 20:55   #27
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 3,478
Thanked: 2,014 Times
Default Re: Some questions on ABS in motorcycles

Quote:
Originally Posted by payeng View Post
I have yet to know of a person who can control a front wheel lock / intentionally lock the Front wheels.

Switchable ABS on the rear wheel makes it an off road mode.. but switching off ABS on front wheels? Why?

Unless of course one might want to Stoppie.
Can't figure out your reason for quoting me.

Regards
Sutripta
Sutripta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st May 2017, 23:59   #28
BHPian
 
sam_sant2005's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 455
Thanked: 145 Times
Default Re: Some questions on ABS in motorcycles

Quote:
Originally Posted by payeng View Post
Sorry I will have to Disagree

I have ridden motorcycles Without ABS all my life. And I am pretty confident of my Riding and Braking skills. BUT one needs just a FRACTION of a second for a scary front wheel lock.

One never plans for a accident. It is in these unexpected situations when tech like ABS saves your skin.


But at the same time on the Flip side:

Riding with an ABS equipped bike all one needs to do is to just STOMP on the Brakes without any feel, skill or judgement. I have had friends who ride ABS equipped 390 Duke tell me that they now can't simply ride bikes without ABS.
Absolutely, cant agree more. I thanked your post only to see GTO already having thanked. I have close to 20yrs of experience (atleast a lac kms and bikes/scooters ranging from Kawasaki 4S, Sunny, Kinetic Honda, Activa, Pulsar 150 1st gen, 2nd gen, P220, Bullet CI 350, Zma, Zmr and NS200) riding 2 wheelers and all my falls have been skids during panic braking. It is foolishness to trust your skill over technology. Last year I spent my hard earned money to buy CBR 250ABS and take my word Every penny is worth it. Please don't buy a non abs bike, unless you are a Rossi. and again, a proper dual channel ABS bike.

All those people supporting non abs or single channel abs bikes please note, stunts with skills are pre meditated, accidents are not and they never give you that split second.

Last edited by sam_sant2005 : 22nd May 2017 at 00:05.
sam_sant2005 is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 14th June 2017, 00:55   #29
Senior - BHPian
 
DirtyDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Dharamsala
Posts: 1,794
Thanked: 734 Times
Default Re: Some questions on ABS in motorcycles

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_sant2005 View Post
...all my falls have been skids during panic braking. It is foolishness to trust your skill over technology. Last year I spent my hard earned money to buy CBR 250ABS and take my word Every penny is worth it. Please don't buy a non abs bike, unless you are a Rossi. and again, a proper dual channel ABS bike.

All those people supporting non abs or single channel abs bikes please note, stunts with skills are pre meditated, accidents are not and they never give you that split second.
ABS was invented (Or at least first put into production) by BMW. Not for their cars, for their motorcycles. The first production application of ABS was for BMW's wonderful road motorcycles.

In North America where motorcyclists are referred to by emergency room staffs as "organ donors", ABS has proven its worth time and again.
DirtyDan is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 16th June 2017, 11:06   #30
BHPian
 
ashwinprakas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Kollam
Posts: 75
Thanked: 153 Times
Default Re: Some questions on ABS in motorcycles

This is a blog entry I wrote a while ago and it seems to have all the details/answers for the questions asked regarding braking. Not so much about ABS, but would definitely help you brake better, as understood from reader reviews.

How to Motorcycle!; How to Brake!
ashwinprakas is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Aftermarket ABS for motorcycles? rascalangel Motorbikes 3 19th January 2017 11:41
Need some Advice on Restoring Classic Motorcycles (BSA, AJS etc) Pune_Bike Vintage Cars & Classics in India 27 6th July 2016 16:34
need some advice on motorcycles chittibells61 Motorbikes 18 7th September 2008 20:27
New Civic 1.8V AT. Questions questions... ImmortalZ Sedans 6 12th June 2008 09:49
Some questions serious ones...? S350L-E240 Technical Stuff 33 7th May 2004 19:59


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 20:25.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks