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Old 14th May 2017, 18:29   #1
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Default Some questions on ABS in motorcycles

Also check this thread - ABS in Bikes

Hello all,

I have been riding bikes since 1997 and have had my share of crashes (14 to be precise) out of which 6 were due to front wheel locking.

There was a thread a while ago about the usage of rear brakes vs front brakes and after reading all those comments I resorted back to more of front braking rather than the rear one.

I have gone through various threads seeking an answer regarding ABS but couldn't find. Here's my query.

Last Thursday I and my wife were returning from Wadala (almost 3 kms from my house) on my bike (classic 500), there was a stupid gutter which was raised to almost 2 feet from road level, to avoid collission with that I tried to decrease my speed (about 50 kmph), to our unfortunate fate there was gravel and loose cement on the road thanks to the construction work going on near the spot and as of this generation we cannot expect safety measures being followed in our country - our bike skidded.

On previous occasions on my CI bullet Yamaha YBX, and Yamaha Rx 135 (all drum brakes) there were similar instances where the front wheel brake led to skidding of my bike making me fall loosing the balance.

All the bikes were non ABS.

I have seen videos where the ABS is shown being tested on wet surfaces and straight line braking,

Query 1 - does the ABS work while the bike is a bit tilted or on corners.

Second query - is ABS effective on roads with loose cement or gravel. Could the ABS have saved the from falling with the above narrated example.

Query 3
- Is single channel ABS sufficient or both the wheels should have ABS

Admins please merge this query with similar thread as I couldn't find one related to motorcycles.

Last edited by GTO : 15th May 2017 at 11:02. Reason: Adding link to main thread
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Old 14th May 2017, 19:23   #2
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Default re: Some questions on ABS in motorcycles

There is a thread in Team-BHP dedicated to ABS, in the context of cars. That will help you to learn more about ABS.

1. It should work irrespective of whether the bike is tilted or not.

2. The bike does not know about the surface you are riding and it just applies the braking pressure on wheels based on your input. So once the wheels get locked up on slippery surface (wet, gravel etc) it will slide. Whereas ABS would not allow the wheels to get locked up (the braking pressure gets ON and OFF intermittently and increases the braking distance) and you do not slide and fall.

3. Dual channel is the best option as both the wheels have ABS.
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Old 14th May 2017, 19:35   #3
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Default re: Some questions on ABS in motorcycles

ABS works as it is intended to; it prevents the lock up of your brakes on any terrain. Beyond that, you are still applicable to the laws of physics. That is, if you use the front brake mid-corner, bike will want to stand up and get out of whatever lean angle you are carrying effectively leading to what could be called understeer (in car guy terms).

One thing I want to say, is that until my accident on the bike, I was a very aggressive rider who was eager to learn quickly at the expense of more risk and I can tell you one thing, ABS has saved my butt a couple of times, but rev-matching has saved me countless times. The situation you described could have been avoided if you had quickly rev-matched down the gears. That way there is no sudden jerk or shift in inertia and weight balance, and there is no chance of the brakes locking up since you will be slowing down quite a bit just due to engine braking.

When I had my accident and was sitting in orthopedic waiting rooms, whenever someone asked me how it happened and which bike I was riding, the instant I replied "RC 390", they all nodded "hmm" like as if they would have bet their money on that being the bike I was riding. The point isn't that people are prejudiced or that the general public doesn't know enough to be generalizing, but that even ABS is not dummy proof. The 390 always came with dual chanel ABS yet so many people in India go and crash on that bike. It is always better to add more riding skills to your arsenal.

Just try learning how to rev-match and you will nearly have the hang of it within a couple of weeks. It is very easy on bikes compared to cars. You will see how much it changes your riding style. People think that trail braking, rev-matching etc. are all skills that are needed only on the racetrack, BUT that is so not true. Infact our everyday Indian roads are much more risky to drive on than on the track so it makes more sense to learn these extra skills and double your confidence and control over your machine. The sheer capability of being able to slow down and change direction faster or slow down without losing control on gravel and wet surfaces or being able to quickly adjust for an undulation is simply unparalleled. I always advocate learning how to rev-match atleast.

Last edited by IshaanIan : 14th May 2017 at 19:50.
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Old 14th May 2017, 19:54   #4
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Default re: Some questions on ABS in motorcycles

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatienceWins View Post
1. It should work irrespective of whether the bike is tilted or not.

2. The bike does not know about the surface you are riding and it just applies the braking pressure on wheels based on your input. So once the wheels get locked up on slippery surface (wet, gravel etc) it will slide. Whereas ABS would not allow the wheels to get locked up (the braking pressure gets ON and OFF intermittently and increases the braking distance) and you do not slide and fall.
The front wheel locked but the bike lost balance within the fraction of a second as if, the instant I hit the front brake it lost balance. I got your point of wheel not locking up but what I want to know is weather the ABS would have avoided this or not.

Just a tinge of front brake application and my bike slipped instantly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
ABS works as it is intended to; it prevents the lock up of your brakes on any terrain. Beyond that, you are still applicable to the laws of physics. That is, if you use the front brake mid-corner, bike will want to stand up and get out of whatever lean angle you are carrying effectively leading to what could be called understeer (in car guy terms)
Correct but the bike just didn't grip on the surface, the instant I hit the front brake it skid and lost balance.

Quote:
The situation you described could have been avoided if you had quickly rev-matched down the gears. That way there is no sudden jerk or shift in inertia and weight balance, and there is no chance of the brakes locking up since you will be slowing down quite a bit just due to engine braking.
I just couldn't as the gutter appeared out of no where and I had little time for engine braking, and just as you mentioned the sudden jerk caused the bike to instantly loose balance

Quote:
When I had my accident and was sitting in orthopedic waiting rooms, whenever someone asked me how it happened and which bike I was riding, the instant I replied "RC 390", they all nodded "hmm" like as if they would have bet their money on that being the bike I was riding. The point isn't that people are prejudiced or that the general public doesn't know enough to be generalizing, but that even ABS is not dummy proof. The 390 always came with dual chanel ABS yet so many people in India go and crash on that bike. It is always better to add more riding skills to your arsenal.
I get your point totally, in my case almost everyone asked me "How could an Enfield loose balance?" and "Because it was Royal Enfield your life was saved"

I just cannot explain to all that even an Enfield is a 2 wheeler subject to the law of physics too although I love my bike

Quote:
it makes more sense to learn these extra skills and double your confidence and control over your machine. I always advocate learning how to rev-match atleast.
That is why I am researching on ABS now, having ridden all over these years I still feel I could learn something more to avoid future falls.
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Old 14th May 2017, 20:18   #5
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Default re: Some questions on ABS in motorcycles

My friend had a bad fall from his Thunderbird 500 a couple of weeks back when he tried to avoid a drunk guy randomly sprinting across the road. The front wheels skid and he lost control over the bike. He badly bruised his arms and legs and the front wheel and the instrument cluster was gone. I bet ABS would have at least helped to maintain steering control over the bike.

I had a bad fall from my scooter a couple of years back when I was at 45-50 on an empty stretch of road my side, and an Autorickshaw coming from the opposite side took a U turn without any indication. Though I was a good 50-60 meters away, I slammed the front brake out of surprise, and since it was just after start, the front brakes were cold and had a really sharp bite. As obvious as it can get, the front wheel locked up in no time and the scoot tilted to one side when I tried to steer, and I was thrown on the road and slid to a stop after hitting a parked car. Thanks to my helmet, I am maybe alive since my head banged the car before I stopped. I have also observed many bikes fishtailing on hard braking once the rear wheel locks up. Now this is another place where ABS will help.

After this incident, I am not at all confident picking up speeds in such vehicles without ABS and brake very much early. Especially on wet or loose roads, I dont even accelerate beyond a certain speed. Now, on the lookout for a bike, my main need is ABS. The Ninja 300 stole my heart, but waiting for it to be offered with ABS. Being new to bikes, I cannot risk a bad skid and fall. Not saying that ABS will prevent any type of fall, but these emergency situations are where I would just slam the brakes and let the ABS do its job. Of course, expert riders might do well without ABS, but I personally am not confident to ride a vehicle without ABS.

Last edited by audioholic : 14th May 2017 at 20:19.
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Old 14th May 2017, 21:42   #6
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Default re: Some questions on ABS in motorcycles

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great View Post
Query 1 - does the ABS work while the bike is a bit tilted or on corners.
Cornering ABS is a recent technology that is there .. but currently only on a few Top End Expensive Motorcycles

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great View Post
Second query - is ABS effective on roads with loose cement or gravel. Could the ABS have saved the from falling with the above narrated example.
ABS is meant to prevent locking of wheels caused due to loss of traction (on slippery / gravel surface). I have had a few painful experiences myself of locking the front wheel over gravel. ABS on my bikes could have prevented those accidents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great View Post
Query 3 - Is single channel ABS sufficient or both the wheels should have ABS
Depends.. on whether you use the rear brakes. I never use the rear brakes while braking on motorcycles. Which is actually the ideal way to brake but I have learnt painfully that on less than perfect roads, you need ABS on the front brake to use just the front brake with confidence.

Majority of Indians have this braking practice of using the rear brakes to stop. Which might not be the efficient way to stop a motorcycle but actually it is practical on less than perfect road conditions. Since a front wheel lock invariably results in a fall, therefore majority of Indians would rather lock/slide the rear wheel rather than risk a front wheel lock. That why end of using the rear brakes for braking.

But on a bike with ABS on the front wheels, why would anyone want to stop on the rear brakes?

Personally I have always followed the proper way to brake on a motorcycle i.e to use the Front Brakes for stopping a motorcycle. So much so that I have almost ended up using ONLY the front brakes. Which is Very Effective in stopping the motorcycle, but on gravel has resulted in 3 painful crashes for me.

For me Single Channel ABS is the perfect ABS setup. Off Road bikes has Off Road ABS mode that is just a single channel ABS. On off Road / gravel surface you sometimes need to lock the rear wheels to stop the bike.

Reason

1. I hardly use the rear brakes to brake, and

2. I want to be able to lock the rear wheel when I want (to slide the rear / dig on gravel surface to get grip




Last edited by payeng : 14th May 2017 at 22:01.
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Old 14th May 2017, 22:22   #7
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Default re: Some questions on ABS in motorcycles

I think I can help you with some 'clinical trials' I have performed while riding a CBR250R ABS and Apache RTR180 non ABS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great View Post
Query 1 - does the ABS work while the bike is a bit tilted or on corners.
Yes ABS works when the bike is tilted during corners but and it is a big BUT, you are going to slip during hard braking while taking corners on a two wheeler if the surface is loose and the tyre loses traction. Remember, bikes are equipped with ABS which prevents wheel lockup, not with traction control system.

Learnt it the hard way on Apache and then on CBR, both times on a loose gravelly corner while trying to save an errant cyclist. Both times speed was about 30 kmph and braking hard both front and rear brakes left me kissing the tarmac. (Off topic, but relevant piece of information:The fairing of CBR did not get a single scratch!)

Now in hindsight, what I should have done is not press brakes while tilting into a corner, rather press brakes while trying to straighten the bike inspite of me being in the middle of a corner.

Quote:
Second query - is ABS effective on roads with loose cement or gravel. Could the ABS have saved the from falling with the above narrated example.
Yes, ABS is effective on loose surfaces, but again *conditions apply. Tyres should be in contact with surface. Usually loose surfaces are uneven as well and even momentary lift reduces the effectiveness of ABS.

What we see in youtube videos during demonstrations are perfectly loose surfaces which are even, not real life loose surfaces which are sometimes uneven.

Quote:
Query 3 - Is single channel ABS sufficient or both the wheels should have ABS
Most accidents happen due to front wheel lockup. So single channel means only front brake is equipped with ABS.

CBR is dual channel, or as Honda likes to call Combi-Braking System. It has three piston front caliper as opposed to twin piston caliper on non ABS one. What it does is that when only rear brake is pressed, one piston of the front brake caliper is activated as well. Pressing front brake activates all three.

Above observations are borne out of practical incidents, so deductions may be incorrect. I would also love to hear experience of fellow bikers.

Two points I would like to impress upon are:
  • ABS is not be-all-end-all. Once you gain experience, even bikes without ABS feels comfortable and brakes inspire confidence.
  • If braking hard to a stop in an emergency situation, try to do it in a straight line if possible.
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Old 14th May 2017, 22:34   #8
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Default re: Some questions on ABS in motorcycles

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidhu_hs View Post
Two points I would like to impress upon are:
  • ABS is not be-all-end-all. Once you gain experience, even bikes without ABS feels comfortable and brakes inspire confidence.
  • If braking hard to a stop in an emergency situation, try to do it in a straight line if possible.

Sorry I will have to Disagree

I have ridden motorcycles Without ABS all my life. And I am pretty confident of my Riding and Braking skills. BUT one needs just a FRACTION of a second for a scary front wheel lock.

One never plans for a accident. It is in these unexpected situations when tech like ABS saves your skin.


But at the same time on the Flip side:

Riding with an ABS equipped bike all one needs to do is to just STOMP on the Brakes without any feel, skill or judgement. I have had friends who ride ABS equipped 390 Duke tell me that they now can't simply ride bikes without ABS.






Last edited by payeng : 14th May 2017 at 22:48.
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Old 15th May 2017, 10:23   #9
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Default re: Some questions on ABS in motorcycles

Quote:
Originally Posted by payeng View Post
Sorry I will have to Disagree

I have ridden motorcycles Without ABS all my life. And I am pretty confident of my Riding and Braking skills. BUT one needs just a FRACTION of a second for a scary front wheel lock.

One never plans for a accident. It is in these unexpected situations when tech like ABS saves your skin.

I completely second that after my 20 years on bikes without ABS.

However confident you feel of your braking skills, there will be a moment when you feel, you have lost every damn control of your bike once the wheels lock in emergency situations. You can do absolutely nothing about it and your fate is sealed.

According to me ABS is must in all vehicles, not just on 2 wheelers. It does save your life.
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Old 16th May 2017, 11:28   #10
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Default Re: Some questions on ABS in motorcycles

So in conclusion of what I could gather knowledge from:

ABS itself means Anti Lock, and it works by avoiding locking of tyres, but that also depends on several factors and situations of the adversity. All in all its better than having your accident due to wheel locking and its surely a welcome addition. In our country its still considered as an option and is still on a very basic stage.

Thanks to all the replies.
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Old 16th May 2017, 12:10   #11
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Default Re: Some questions on ABS in motorcycles

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great View Post
So in conclusion of what I could gather knowledge from:

ABS itself means Anti Lock, and it works by avoiding locking of tyres, but that also depends on several factors and situations of the adversity.
It does not depend on anything. ABS works no matter what the terrain or conditions are. Obviously that implies that by 'working' it is preventing the lock up of the brakes not preventing accidents per se. You can fall off your bike for multiple reasons not just your brakes locking up. Like I said earlier, learn how to rev-match. It is a very versatile skill and you will thank me for pestering you to learn it in the future
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Old 16th May 2017, 18:18   #12
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Default Re: Some questions on ABS in motorcycles

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great View Post
Last Thursday I and my wife were returning from Wadala (almost 3 kms from my house) on my bike (classic 500), there was a stupid gutter which was raised to almost 2 feet from road level, to avoid collission with that I tried to decrease my speed (about 50 kmph), to our unfortunate fate there was gravel and loose cement on the road thanks to the construction work going on near the spot and as of this generation we cannot expect safety measures being followed in our country - our bike skidded.
There are many answers to how you could have possibly avoided this situation, unfortunately none of them involve ABS. But since the topic is being discussed, ABS is a good to have feature; riding skills are indispensable. Some things to bear in mind:

- A gutter was raised 2 feet from the road level and you were unable to spot it in time? That's higher than some road dividers man. How far ahead were you looking? From what I gather, you weren't going too fast. I would assume here that not 100% of your attention was on the road. Maybe you and the missus were out to enjoy a quick ride, but the adage holds true here - "Saavdhaani hati, durghatna ghati". Always look ahead and scan for trouble

- Often times, when we see an obstacle like an unmarked speedbreaker appearing out of nowhere, our first instinct is to roll off the throttle, brake hard and try to slow down as much as possible; while still comfortably seated; with a death grip on the handlebars. This almost always never works. Think about whats happening here. You hit the brakes, your front suspension compresses, reducing available travel. Now with that limited travel or in some cases a bottomed out suspension, you hit that obstacle. Instead of the forks absorbing the impact, they get overwhelmed and instead deflect the wheel sideways. That force has to go somewhere. So if an obstacle like this were to appear, give it more gas, stand on the pegs and don't white knuckle your grips (hold the bike with your legs). The suspension is at its optimum travel range to absorb the bump, you are off th seat so you wont get slammed in the butt which might catapult you over the handlebars and since you have a normal grip, even if the wheel is slightly turned once you are airborne, it will immediately correct itself once you land ... hopefully

- But I have a pillion : This whole flying over obstacles thing can be difficult for the pillion, no doubt. But the problem is more than doubled when the pillion is simply behaving like a passenger, instead of an active part of the motorcycle. They have to have their wits about them, they need to look ahead just like you. In the situation I described above; they don't have to be off the seat but really clamp down on the grab rails (or whatever else they have to hold on) and raise their bum off the seat a couple inches. Chances are, they too will come out unscathed. But no day dreaming. If you want to just take in the sights and sounds, ride real slowwwww where you can literally stop on a dime if the situation demands. If you ride often with a pillion, investing in a good intercom is highly recommended

About braking and ABS:

ABS will activate on any surface where there could be a wheel lockup. Go 80 kph on a regular road surface and slam hard on the rear brake and the tyre will slide. On loose sand, gravel and mud, the effect is much more pronounced at much lower speeds. If you are on any such surface, be gentle with the front brake and use the rear brake more. In such cases, its often beneficial to be able to lock your rear wheel to not just stop but also steer. But for a noob, this can be daunting. I am no expert but thanks to the off road sessions; I am getting more and more confident to slide the rear

Practice Practice Practice:

Its the easiest and IMO saddest thing that post an unpleasant scenario on the road, riders are evaluating the things missing on their bikes as opposed to improving their own skills and ability. Get out there and practice more in a safe environment. Fly over a speed breaker / bump and catch some air. Deliberately lock up the rear and control the direction of your slide using the front wheel. Ride off road if you can. Whatever you do, don't forget to have fun coz isn't that what its all about

Ride safe!

Last edited by Urban_Nomad : 16th May 2017 at 18:27.
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Old 16th May 2017, 19:02   #13
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Default Re: Some questions on ABS in motorcycles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad View Post
There are many answers to how you could have possibly avoided this situation, unfortunately none of them involve ABS. But since the topic is being discussed, ABS is a good to have feature; riding skills are indispensable. Some things to bear in mind:
Well I do admit my mistake on this situation, but my main Question was regarding the ABS technology. Does ABS help on gravel/loose cement road.

Quote:
- A gutter was raised 2 feet from the road level and you were unable to spot it in time? That's higher than some road dividers man. How far ahead were you looking? From what I gather, not too fast. I would assume here that not 100% of your attention was on the road. Maybe you and the missus were out to enjoy a quick ride, but the adage holds true here - "Saavdhaani hati, durghatna ghati". Always look ahead and scan for trouble
Yes the gutter was raised that high, I was in the 2nd lane from left in the 3 lane road and the speed wasn't that fast. There was a taxi in front of me and my full attention was on the road.

Quote:
- Often times, when we see an obstacle like an unmarked speedbreaker appearing out of nowhere, our first instinct is to roll off the throttle, brake hard and try to slow down as much as possible; while still comfortably seated; with a death grip on the handlebars. This almost always never works. Think about whats happening here. You hit the brakes,
Took to the leftmost lane from the middle lane to overtake the taxi which was right in front of me in the 3x3 divided lane road and hence I could not spot the gutter in time, but I did not brake hard as you mentioned. Yes my first instinct was to slow down as the gutter was deadly high and had I tried to overrun it like a speed breaker I would have definitely had a bigger fall. I just didn't have enough split second time to downshift and control via rear brakes theory.

Quote:
- But I have a pillion : This whole flying over obstacles thing can be difficult for the pillion, no doubt. But the problem is more than doubled when the pillion is simply behaving like a passenger, instead of an active part of the motorcycle.
I have been married for 14 years and me and my wife have been riding on the motorcycle for nearly 17 years now. She does know the difference between the passenger and being a part of the motorcycle since she also drives the scooter. That being said in this case it wasn't the case as almost as soon as I touched the front brake the bike skidded, so this evaluation is also out. Still I want to learn more as my technique may be flawed, hence I am researching regarding ABS.

Quote:
About braking and ABS:

ABS will activate on any surface where there could be a wheel lockup. Go 80 kph and slam hard on the rear brake and the tyre will slide. On loose sand, gravel and mud, the effect is much more pronounced at much lower speeds. If you are on any such surface, be gentle with the front brake and use the rear brake more. In such cases, its often beneficial to be able to lock your rear wheel to not just stop but also steer. But for a noob, this can be daunting. I am no expert but thanks to the off road sessions; I am getting more and more confident to slide the rear
There was recently a thread on front braking vs rear braking and a lot of the comments were different to what you have mentioned here sir. Although I agree with most of the above paragraph, in this particular accident I should have used the rear brake effectively rather than resorting to the front brake. But then again having a dual channel ABS would also be helpful wouldn't it ?

Quote:
Its the easiest and IMO saddest thing that post an unpleasant scenario on the road, riders are evaluating the things missing on their bikes as opposed to improving their own skills and ability. Get out there and practice more in a safe environment. Fly over a speed breaker / bump and catch some air. Deliberately lock up the rear and control the direction of your slide using the front wheel. Ride off road if you can.
Yes it is the easiest thing post an unpleasant scenario and I am seeking my answers regarding related technology and could it have avoided the accident. But its more easier evaluating a situation on paper and facing a real life incident, both are altogether different, there the physics and geography knowledge cannot all flash in one second. Yes I agree to your comments on trial and errors and practice does help to a lot of extent sir, but what is wrong in discussing whats missing on my bike ? Don't the Airbags and Seat-belts technology help in a car accident, however skilled the passengers may be right ?

I would definitely want to improve my riding skills and ability but I still do not agree with your theory that a bad fall is only due to bad driving skills.

In any-case I really appreciate you all coming out and speaking out from your experiences, such arguments do help a lot.

Cheers !
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Old 18th May 2017, 18:49   #14
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Default Re: Some questions on ABS in motorcycles

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great View Post
Well I do admit my mistake on this situation, but my main Question was regarding the ABS technology. Does ABS help on gravel/loose cement road.
The short answer is - maybe. Any surface where your tyre might lock upon braking, ABS will activate. It can be helpful and it can be rather dangerous too. Like when I took my duke off road and was trying to negotiate a sharp descent (45 degrees EASY), filled with sand at least a foot deep. I forgot to turn off the ABS and viola, the bike didn't stop and kept rolling forward uncontrollably. I had to get both my feet down and "paddle" my way to the bottom

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great View Post
Yes the gutter was raised that high, I was in the 2nd lane from left in the 3 lane road and the speed wasn't that fast. There was a taxi in front of me and my full attention was on the road.
My recommendation - please scan ahead. There are time we are going blind into another lane. We have scanned for traffic coming from behind but "assume" all is OK up ahead. And 9 out of 10 times, it will be all OK. Its that one time that might get you. Lean your head out, peek into the lane before you move in

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had I tried to overrun it like a speed breaker I would have definitely had a bigger fall. I just didn't have enough split second time to downshift and control via rear brakes theory.
No doubt about that and my apologies. I never meant that you (or anyone) go over a vertical concrete face 2 feet high at full throttle. Avoidance is the best course of action here. I merely mentioned it as its one of those instinctive things where one completely goes off the gas upon seeing any obstacle. More of a generic cautionary note as opposed to something specific you could have done

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Originally Posted by The Great View Post
She does know the difference between the passenger and being a part of the motorcycle
Again, what I made was a generic comment. Nothing directed towards you and the Mrs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great View Post
There was recently a thread on front braking vs rear braking and a lot of the comments were different to what you have mentioned here sir. Although I agree with most of the above paragraph, in this particular accident I should have used the rear brake effectively rather than resorting to the front brake. But then again having a dual channel ABS would also be helpful wouldn't it ?
I haven't gone through that thread so not sure what are the differences between my comments and whats posted there (maybe you could let me know?). But I think the general consensus amongst most folks seems to be that a sliding bike = an out of control bike. This couldn't be further from the truth. You have to take into account rider skill and more importantly, the environment you are riding in

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great View Post
Yes it is the easiest thing post an unpleasant scenario and I am seeking my answers regarding related technology and could it have avoided the accident. But its more easier evaluating a situation on paper and facing a real life incident, both are altogether different, there the physics and geography knowledge cannot all flash in one second. Yes I agree to your comments on trial and errors and practice does help to a lot of extent sir, but what is wrong in discussing whats missing on my bike ? Don't the Airbags and Seat-belts technology help in a car accident, however skilled the passengers may be right ?
Nothing wrong with discussing. Not sure where I said that it was. But again, in your particular case too; what would have 100% helped avoid this situation is you scanning ahead before moving into a lane. ABS - it may have "helped", or maybe not. But you taking a peek up ahead; 100% would

And I know I am really getting into the nitty gritty here; but these are 2 different technologies we are talking about viz - Active vs Passive. Tech like ABS helps avoid accidents while Airbags / Belts help reduce the impact of the accident. Off topic but I would love to see affordable airbag tech make its way into motorcycle riding gear

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Originally Posted by The Great View Post
I would definitely want to improve my riding skills and ability but I still do not agree with your theory that a bad fall is only due to bad driving skills.
That's not my theory. The best riders in the world, aboard the most tech laden machinery in the world crash HARD every weekend. Just watch MotoGP. It is in your case that I feel some extra caution from you would have had a much better outcome as opposed to you simply being on an ABS equipped bike

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Originally Posted by The Great View Post
In any-case I really appreciate you all coming out and speaking out from your experiences, such arguments do help a lot.

Cheers !
Appreciate your thoughts and comments too. Take care and ride safe bud!
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Old 18th May 2017, 19:44   #15
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Default Re: Some questions on ABS in motorcycles

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Well I do admit my mistake on this situation, but my main Question was regarding the ABS technology. Does ABS help on gravel/loose cement road.

Simple Solution/Answer to your Problem/Question.

1. Take an ABS equipped bike for a Test Ride

2. Find a patch of Gravel/Loose soil in the your test ride route

3. Get the bike to speed of around 40/50 kmph and brake Hard on the Gravel Patch with only the Front Brakes (with the intention of locking the front wheels), since I normally use only the front brakes on motorcycles.


This simple experiment would clear your doubts rather than spending internet data and going through the comments/replies of online bikers (like us).



FYI, I did the same above experiment with the Honda CBR250R (with ABS) in 2011. And the bike did stop without locking the Wheels (and I was SUPER IMPRESSED).







Last edited by payeng : 18th May 2017 at 19:49.
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