Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > Motorbikes


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11th June 2017, 18:47   #1
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Karnal
Posts: 30
Thanked: 38 Times
Question 2-wheeler speed limits in India?

Most of the highways in India either do not have speed limit for 2 wheeler, or even if they have, are unrealistically low. For instance the speed limit on NH-44, a 6 lane highway, is a meager 50 km/hr . A few years ago this may have been sufficient, but with the current rise in high power motorbikes and the trend of touring on 2 wheeler, this speed seems almost impossible to follow. As a result, realistically, there's no speed limit on 2 wheeler driving , which again, is very risky for the riders as well as the other vehicles.
Considering the above, just wondering what the fellow bhpians think about current speed limit scenario and what could be done to improve it. Increase the limit to 90kmph(same as 4 wheelers)? Or categorize speed limits for different capacity engines(a 100cc Bajaj Platina isn't as stable as a 390cc KTM at 90kmph)? A different speed maybe?
eddy481 is online now   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 11th June 2017, 19:03   #2
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Jalgaon
Posts: 234
Thanked: 141 Times
Default re: 2-wheeler speed limits in India?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eddy481 View Post
Considering the above, just wondering what the fellow bhpians think about current speed limit scenario and what could be done to improve it. Increase the limit to 90kmph(same as 4 wheelers)? Or categorize speed limits for different capacity engines(a 100cc Bajaj Platina isn't as stable as a 390cc KTM at 90kmph)? A different speed maybe?
Ideally speaking, rated top speed of the motorcycle, divided by two, plus ten kph should suffice. Thus, if the rated top speed of a D-400 is 140 kph, ideal cruising speed should be 80. Rated top speed of an XCD-125 is 90 kph. Her cruising speed is therefore 55.

For this idealism to be actually seen on roads, motorcycle manufacturers must electronically set these limits on the bike at manufacturing level itself.
Swapnil4585 is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 11th June 2017, 20:05   #3
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Karnal
Posts: 30
Thanked: 38 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swapnil4585 View Post
Ideally speaking, rated top speed of the motorcycle, divided by two, plus ten kph should suffice. Thus, if the rated top speed of a D-400 is 140 kph, ideal cruising speed should be 80. Rated top speed of an XCD-125 is 90 kph. Her cruising speed is therefore 55.

For this idealism to be actually seen on roads, motorcycle manufacturers must electronically set these limits on the bike at manufacturing level itself.
Interesting.. Maybe a bit more than half plus 10...maybe half plus 20-25. And electronically, maybe set a timer as to how long the motorcycle can run at greater speed than the preset limit... This is needed in case of quick overtake maneuvers or some sudden traffic maneuver. But then again not all highways are alike. Some may suffice such limits but for some, this maybe a bit too fast or slow. Maybe some censors on highways for the limit to be adjusted accordingly?
eddy481 is online now   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2017, 05:17   #4
Senior - BHPian
 
ArizonaJim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Phoenix, Ariz.
Posts: 1,014
Thanked: 1,962 Times
Default re: 2-wheeler speed limits in India?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eddy481 View Post
Most of the highways in India either do not have speed limit for 2 wheeler, or even if they have, are unrealistically low. For instance the speed limit on NH-44, a 6 lane highway, is a meager 50 km/hr . A few years ago this may have been sufficient, but with the current rise in high power motorbikes and the trend of touring on 2 wheeler, this speed seems almost impossible to follow. As a result, realistically, there's no speed limit on 2 wheeler driving , which again, is very risky for the riders as well as the other vehicles.
Considering the above, just wondering what the fellow bhpians think about current speed limit scenario and what could be done to improve it. Increase the limit to 90kmph(same as 4 wheelers)? Or categorize speed limits for different capacity engines(a 100cc Bajaj Platina isn't as stable as a 390cc KTM at 90kmph)? A different speed maybe?
Being the foreigner that I am, I don't understand several things that are mentioned.

First, let me say, where I live a "Speed Limit" is a maximum speed that can be used on that particular area of a road or highway.

Using this logic, the way I read the above quote says the Government has placed a limit on 2 wheelers that is less than automobiles are allowed to drive on the same road?
That's absolutely crazy!

In the interest of safety, IMO, the speed limit for any given area of roadway should be the same for all vehicles, be they scooters, motorcycles, cars or trucks.

If auto's can drive at 90 kmph then everyone should be allowed to drive at 90 kmph.
If autos can drive at 130 kmph then everyone should be allowed to drive at 130 kmph (assuming their machine can do that).

It should be up to the 2 wheeled vehicle rider to decide if their scooter/motorcycle is capable of doing this safely.
If it is not capable then the rider should avoid that road or at least ride in a lane which slower vehicles use.
(In the US, where we drive on the right, if the road has multiple lanes going in the same direction, the right or "outside" lane is for slower vehicles and the left or center/inside lane is used for higher speed vehicles traveling at the speed limit or for passing slower vehicles in the outside lane.)

The idea that the driver or rider should be able to figure out if his machine is capable of keeping up with traffic works, even for me.

The freeway that connects Phoenix with Flagstaff has a speed limit of 75 mph (121 kmph).
Most users know the Police will not stop them for speeding if they keep their speed less than 10 mph (16 kmph) faster than the speed limit so most vehicles travel on this road at about 84 mph (135 kmph).

My Royal Enfield tops out at about 80 mph (130 kmph) on a flat road and there are many places where this road climbs for long distances.

So, do I ride this road to Flagstaff? No way! I'm not crazy.
I use a longer, slower road with a more reasonable (for my Royal Enfield) speed limit. This "secondary road's" speed limit is 65 mph (105 kmph) and my motorcycle can easily keep up with the other vehicles on that road.
(Another advantage of riding this secondary road is the big trucks avoid it because it's longer and slower. Fewer big, slow trucks around them is good for motorcycle riders. )

On many of our Interstate highways or freeways the Government has forbidden some vehicles, again in the interest of safety.
For instance, in order to use most freeways the machine must have more than 5 horsepower.
This is based on the idea that a machine with less than 5 horsepower is incapable of maintaining a safe speed on that road so if it was using that road it would be a hazard.

The speed limit on the highways that this applies on usually have a speed limit of 55 mph (89 kmph), or faster.

To sum up, IMO, the speed limit for any road should be the same for ALL of the vehicles using it.

The safest condition happens when everyone is traveling at the same speed.

Last edited by ArizonaJim : 12th June 2017 at 05:21.
ArizonaJim is offline   (14) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2017, 05:37   #5
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Delhi
Posts: 3,003
Thanked: 5,979 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post
.
To sum up, IMO, the speed limit for any road should be the same for ALL of the vehicles using it.

.

I dont think there are many countries in the world that subscribe to that theory. In just about all European countries trucks have a lower maximum speed then ordinary cars.

Usually about 80km/h, and car depending on country/road could be up to 120/130 km/h.

It stems from having different stopping distances.

Jeroen
Jeroen is offline   (6) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2017, 12:31   #6
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Karnal
Posts: 30
Thanked: 38 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post
Being the foreigner that I am, I don't understand several things that are mentioned.

First, let me say, where I live a "Speed Limit" is a maximum speed that can be used on that particular area of a road or highway.

Using this logic, the way I read the above quote says the Government has placed a limit on 2 wheelers that is less than automobiles are allowed to drive on the same road? That's absolutely crazy!.
Well written.
In India the situation is completely different. First of all, the drivers of all kinds of mentality can be found here. Most people don't follow rules and even speed limits are followed only in certain areas where there are chances of getting caught by the police. Hence, the concept that driver should be able to figure out the speed here is not possible.
Secondly, unlike the US, the trucks here are way less powerful and the overloaded one's are even worse(a common sight). Same goes for 2 wheelers. The majority are in the 100-125cc range and they cannot go at the speeds of 4 wheelers. More recently, there has been an influx of 2 wheelers that are capable of keeping up with 4 wheelers, but the problem, again, is the road sense. Most people who are tourers are not the concern here. The people using highways for short distances, mostly the 18-25 age groups, they are the one's that need to be controlled here.
The mental setup of people is slowly improving in India as well as the infrastructure, but till the time it improves completely, the speed limits need to be different for different vehicles.

Last edited by mobike008 : 8th August 2017 at 14:40. Reason: Please do not quote such a long post for a reply. Use only part of the para for ease for reading. Thanks!
eddy481 is online now   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2017, 12:45   #7
Distinguished - BHPian
 
SS-Traveller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 6,595
Thanked: 10,648 Times
Default Re: 2-wheeler speed limits in India?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
I dont think there are many countries in the world that subscribe to that theory.
It stems from having different stopping distances.
Stopping distance was the key to deciding in favour of different maximum speed limits for cars, motorcycles and heavy transport vehicles. Current thinking is that at any given speed, the onus lies on the driver to maintain that much stopping distance from the vehicle ahead; this is based on the additional assumption that there shall be no lane intrusion without adequate warning / signalling.

No lane intrusion without adequate warning / signalling is a concept that is more alien to India than driving on the left of the road is, for Americans / Europeans.
SS-Traveller is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2017, 15:35   #8
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Delhi
Posts: 3,003
Thanked: 5,979 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Stopping distance was the key to deciding in favour of different maximum speed limits for cars, motorcycles and heavy transport vehicles. Current thinking is that at any given speed, the onus lies on the driver to maintain that much stopping distance from the vehicle ahead; this is based on the additional assumption that there shall be no lane intrusion without adequate warning / signalling.



No lane intrusion without adequate warning / signalling is a concept that is more alien to India than driving on the left of the road is, for Americans / Europeans.

Yes, although not much legislation has changed accordingly. In various European countries a few years ago busses had the same maximum speed as cars. For touring busses maximum speed is now 100 km/h. Which means car are still allowed to go faster.

Also, in most European countries busses and trucks are not allowed in the third lane. They have to stick to the two right lanes so faster traffic can overtake. In addition on certain stretches or time of the days trucks are not allowed to overtake at all. Meaning they need to remain in the slow lane. Works well especially during rush hour.

All trucks have speed limiters set to 80 kmh or just above. So when they start overtaking one another it takes ages. The guy in the slow lane doing 80km/h and the guy overtaking him doing 81 km/h.

Jeroen
Jeroen is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 14th June 2017, 13:49   #9
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 202
Thanked: 290 Times
Default Re: 2-wheeler speed limits in India?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eddy481 View Post
Or categorize speed limits for different capacity engines(a 100cc Bajaj Platina isn't as stable as a 390cc KTM at 90kmph)? A different speed maybe?
Monitoring of the speed and fining process becomes difficult if this is implemented. (Assuming, there will be monitoring systems installed and fining mechanisms implemented).

For example, On Hosur road, there will be Police Intercepter van monitoring the speeds of vehicles around 3:30 PM to 4:40 PM (Opposite to Dakshin Honda)
They will catch any vehicle that is more than 60KMPH and fine them.

Suppose the above system is implemented, Interceptor monitoring system should first identify the vehicle, then, check what is its current speed, compare with maximum allowable speed limit for that vehicle make and then signal the police to catch OR leave the vehicle. For the system to identify the two wheeler make and model, at least some basic machine learning OR image processing system should be implemented. OR if this has to be done manually, then, given the time constraint, police may not be able to catch even one single over speeding case . So, this defeats the purpose for police(Read revenue generation)

So, In my view, categorizing the speed limits to 4 wheelers, 2 wheelers and HTVs would suffice. And, since long back these speed limits are mentioned in multiple places through sign boards. (Not Monitoring systems. But only the speed limit indicators)
gkveda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th June 2017, 15:04   #10
Senior - BHPian
 
vinit.merchant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Pune
Posts: 1,121
Thanked: 925 Times
Default Re: 2-wheeler speed limits in India?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post
Being the foreigner that I am, I don't understand several things that are mentioned.

First, let me say, where I live a "Speed Limit" is a maximum speed that can be used on that particular area of a road or highway.
--- SNIP----

It should be up to the 2 wheeled vehicle rider to decide if their scooter/motorcycle is capable of doing this safely.
If it is not capable then the rider should avoid that road or at least ride in a lane which slower vehicles use.
That second part is the problem here. Everyone thinks he/she and his/her 2 wheeled machine is capable of insane speeds in all possibly thinkable circumstances like while cutting lanes, while talking on the phone and you can add a couple of unthinkable one's too here.
One can also find 2 2-wheelers being driven side by side while the riders have a long conversation (possible on global warming and how to stop it). Sometimes a 3rd rider joins the conversation too. Doesn't matter if the highway is two laned or 4 laned and they are driving at maybe 30 kmph. Global warming is here and the solution to it should not wait, come what may.
Majority of the 2-wheelers do not have rear view mirrors. They are taken off because either they look uncool to the riders or they are a hindrance in negotiating tight gaps.

So net net, sorry for the long post but that sentence of yours just got me started and I could not stop, just like the riders who do not.

In summary, all I wanted to say is most (not all) chaps riding 2 wheels are not in a position to decided for themselves what is sane and what is insane. Ditto for drivers of 4 wheeler.
You need to see it (and feel it maybe) to believe it.

EDIT: Would also like to add that even if there is a speed limit imposed, none of them will try to follow it, either due to "who cares" syndrome that most of the human species live with, or out of sheer ignorance since these are trivial immaterial things no one wants to know.

Last edited by vinit.merchant : 14th June 2017 at 15:27.
vinit.merchant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th June 2017, 15:37   #11
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Karnal
Posts: 30
Thanked: 38 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gkveda View Post

So, In my view, categorizing the speed limits to 4 wheelers, 2 wheelers and HTVs would suffice. And, since long back these speed limits are mentioned in multiple places through sign boards. (Not Monitoring systems. But only the speed limit indicators)
The speed limits mentioned in cities are sufficient. The problem comes for highways. For a 2 wheeler having 100cc engine, it is easy to cruise at, say 60kmph. But for a modern 200cc 2 wheeler, it's more of a punishment to cruise at miserably low speeds. Not to forget that most people who travel longer distances have even greater capacity bikes.
Secondly​, if you travel from, say Chandigarh to Delhi on nh-1, the speed limit indicators are rarely to be seen for two wheelers. The newer speed limit indicators mention only LTVs and HTVs, and no mention of 2 wheelers. Hence with the road quality, you can easily drive at 100kmph+ speeds without the fear of being caught. This is where the problem arises.
eddy481 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 14th June 2017, 18:56   #12
BHPian
 
farhadtarapore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 300
Thanked: 171 Times
Default Re: 2-wheeler speed limits in India?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post

It stems from having different stopping distances.

Jeroen
It would also depend on the camber, superelevation of the road. I agree in theory to the "maximum" speed limit put on a highway should be the same for all vehicles. Upto the vehicle drivers to choose sensibly what speed their vehicle can safely ply on
farhadtarapore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th June 2017, 05:02   #13
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Delhi
Posts: 3,003
Thanked: 5,979 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by farhadtarapore View Post
It would also depend on the camber, superelevation of the road. n

Not really, I was referring to generic maximum speeds. In order for this speed to be applied to a certain stretch the (motor) way needs to comply with certain specification. If not restriction comes into play. Not just these one. For instance , emissions is a big thing too these days. So some stretches of motorway are restricted to 80 or 100 km/h due to maximum permitted emissions.

Jeroen
Jeroen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th August 2017, 03:35   #14
BHPian
 
joybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Chandigarh
Posts: 45
Thanked: 110 Times
Default

The multiple route option is very limited in India for the time being and our national and state highways are under various projects for broadening, creating easy links for hassle free driving and avoiding townships enroute.
At the same time automotive industry has also grown bigger with powerful engines.
We do not have an effective working system in place to discard old or underpowered engines with better and more powerful ones. This means that all users will use the same highway.
In this scenario it's better to impose a lower speed limit especially for two wheelers as riders are more prone to injuries than 4 wheel drivers.
It's does injustice to much powerful two wheels but in a country where riders don't were helmets on highways do you really want to go fast!

Last edited by joybird : 8th August 2017 at 03:43.
joybird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th October 2017, 22:58   #15
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 53
Thanked: 152 Times
Default Re: 2-wheeler speed limits in India?

There shouldn't be any difference in the speed limit between 4 wheeler and 2 wheeler!! IMO, 100 is good for HighWays. There is no point in selling and collecting more tax for vehicles which can't be used to basic potential. Police uses this just to collect fines! I'm sure they are no way bothered about the safety of the rider nor theirs (the way they run in front of the vehicle to stop it). Eddy481, may be you should start a Petition!
Even if two wheeler is going at 40, a car coming at 90 can knock them down instantly. There is always concern about general road safety (pot holes / cows and animals crossing the road / people coming in the opposite direction to avoid silly kms and tolls; high way design allowing all such nonsese).
genopv is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Of speed limits and the responsible driver architect Street Experiences 35 3rd July 2015 13:47
Speed limits on the Autobahn? floor_it_baby The International Automotive Scene 18 16th May 2013 14:58
Speed limits in Highways and expressways ebmrajesh The Indian Car Scene 60 10th November 2009 12:24
Rash Drivers Jailed (ToI) - Are Speed Limits Justified megger Shifting gears 21 3rd October 2007 13:49
Road speed limits may be upped mithun The Indian Car Scene 18 5th April 2007 18:59


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 09:37.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks