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Old 2nd August 2017, 11:06   #16
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Default Re: Bike & car groups vandalizing road signs in the Himalayas

This is downright shocking, disgusting and completely un-acceptable.

These morons should be penalized. BRO/who ever who owns these roads/signage should send these morons a legal notice & publicly humiliate them!
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Old 2nd August 2017, 15:24   #17
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Default Re: Bike & car groups vandalizing road signs in the Himalayas

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Originally Posted by ashwin1224 View Post
Guilty as charged.

Forgive us for celebrating years of planning and saving up, agonising ourselves on non existent roads, to go where few go and see the sights which very few get to see. Forgive us for celebrating all the hardwork and occupying a 4inx2in space on a road sign. I just hope no one mistakes this for Khardung La mistakenly due to unnecessary stickers and takes a selfie with the caption "on top of the world".

/s
Well, I really appreciate all the efforts that you guys have put in to visit those terrains but at the same time why should that give you the right to vandalize a public property? It is not about one 4in X 2in lable, if you multiply that 4in X 2in area to the number of groups who drive to these terrains, I am sure it will need N number of those road sign boards to stick all those labels and that would not be a pretty sight.

I hope we Indians learn to appreciate the beauty of respecting other's property. Some day.
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Old 2nd August 2017, 23:48   #18
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Default Re: Bike & car groups vandalizing road signs in the Himalayas

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Originally Posted by ashwin1224 View Post
Guilty as charged.

Forgive us for celebrating years of planning and saving up, agonising ourselves on non existent roads, to go where few go and see the sights which very few get to see. Forgive us for celebrating all the hardwork and occupying a 4inx2in space on a road sign. I just hope no one mistakes this for Khardung La mistakenly due to unnecessary stickers and takes a selfie with the caption "on top of the world".

/s
You cannot be serious? No one asked you to do any of the things you mentioned, and no one asked you to leave behind an insignificant reminder of whatever affiliation you might be having. And certainly, none of that gives you the prerogative to vandalize public property. You haven't traveled outside the Earth's atmosphere to "go where few go" and "see sights which few see". It's Leh for Christ's sake.

If you took the time to read what exactly the issue is that OP is trying to highlight, it is that of vandalism and not respecting public property. The callousness with which you regard the 4*2in space on public property speaks volumes on how much those issues mean to you.

Making a suggestion like the one @iamahunter did could lead to a constructive solution that would account for interests on both sides. Trying to justify vandalism on the other hand, well, wow.

Last edited by Ruchitya : 2nd August 2017 at 23:53.
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Old 3rd August 2017, 01:30   #19
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Default Re: Bike & car groups vandalizing road signs in the Himalayas

I am a member of the Dukes Of Nagpur Riding Club. Yes all of us are sorry about the fact that we convinced our parents no end to let us ride to faraway places in the first place. We are sorry that we have always dreamed about riding to one of the most beautiful places on this planet. We are also sorry that we feel this is an achievement for ourselves. Apologies for defiling the Kunzum Pass board with two of our stickers. On a road which no one can get lost on, those stickers sure are a hindrance to tavelers.

The Facebook post was simply a snide way to promote some fellow's own upcoming ride, by outright insulting others. We, DONRC are not irresponsible in any way. We have the good sense to know how to conduct ourselves and leave our club's mark in a good way. So many people have put up their stickers on similar boards, cafes, and otherwise prominent places everywhere from such a long time. One hate post, and everyone's suddenly a critic?
Also, these boards are put up by BRO. If they had wanted all those stickers brought down from their signs, it would have happened a long time ago, and the practice would have quickly died out.
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Old 3rd August 2017, 03:36   #20
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This is so sad. While I can understand the thought process behind following his/her passion, I don't understand why one should advertise it. If you have done something which many others couldn't do, you share the experience or pass any information. Let others do it, follow you. And seeing those signboards what I feel is the opposite: "we have been here, but we don't like you to follow our path, so we are vandalizing the informative signboards".



With my limited knowledge, what I believe is that, these signboards are there for information, not to prevent someone getting lost on the highway and taking down the stickers from the boards is not the job of BRO.

Leave all the rider groups, a BHPian should never do this kind of things.
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Old 3rd August 2017, 04:19   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knightrider_7 View Post
This is so sad. While I can understand the thought process behind following his/her passion, I don't understand why one should advertise it. If you have done something which many others couldn't do, you share the experience or pass any information. Let others do it, follow you. And seeing those signboards what I feel is the opposite: "we have been here, but we don't like you to follow our path, so we are vandalizing the informative signboards".



With my limited knowledge, what I believe is that, these signboards are there for information, not to prevent someone getting lost on the highway and taking down the stickers from the boards is not the job of BRO.

Leave all the rider groups, a BHPian should never do this kind of things.
Thank you for the understanding.

If I may add- as per few replies earlier what I understand is one should boast of our achievements where and when we get a chance?
So then likes of Sachin Tendulkar should have his name on almost all the pitches. Mr Bolt should insist same on all race tracks and same goes for all other achievers.
After starting this post and going through few replies I am really stunned.
First of all it's not a hate post as some have mentioned earlier. We are here discussing an issue.
How does it become responsibility of the BRO to clear the signage. They made the roads, put signs to guide road users so they are responsible for maintaining the signs too? This clearly means we will continue doing it and BRO should continue clearing our mess.
Cannot agree more with you. It's the thought process. We are advertising ourselves and feeling proud of it. Sad it is and a very wrong example for the next generation.
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Old 3rd August 2017, 07:57   #22
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Default Re: Bike & car groups vandalizing road signs in the Himalayas

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Originally Posted by joybird View Post
Thank you for the understanding.
Some questions since you are the OP.

1. Are these stickers posted on every road sign, including important ones at forks?
2. Any account of anyone being lost because they couldn't read the sticker blasted sign?
3. Are all the sticker blasting happening on "Ornamental", selfie friendly Vista points?

If the situation is more of the last than the others, who lacks understanding?

Cheers
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Old 3rd August 2017, 08:02   #23
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Default Re: Bike & car groups vandalizing road signs in the Himalayas

This is the first time I've seen minor vandalism being justified on tbhp!
"Just a small sticker" might not seem like a big deal but it's about the principle behind the thing. The BRO should probably provide blank signages at places so that those with fragile egos can leave their mark.
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Old 3rd August 2017, 08:56   #24
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Default Re: Bike & car groups vandalizing road signs in the Himalayas

Quote:
Originally Posted by gthang View Post
Some questions since you are the OP.

1. Are these stickers posted on every road sign, including important ones at forks?
2. Any account of anyone being lost because they couldn't read the sticker blasted sign?
3. Are all the sticker blasting happening on "Ornamental", selfie friendly Vista points?

If the situation is more of the last than the others, who lacks understanding?

Cheers
I had been to these places ~ 5 years back.
I didn't paste any stickers but definitely saw a few.

To answer your queries:
1. The roads here have very few "important forks". You don't even need GPS to reach the right place. Most stickers are pasted on destination sign boards. A destination is not very easy to miss for anyone with some common sense.
2. Road signs are usually not vandalized since these groups also use the same road signs to reach their selfie points. I doubt someone would get lost due to them. It's actually very hard to get lost here; very few "wrong turns" on the highways.
3. Most of the stickering happens on the board declaring the selfie friendly Vista point. Very few (if any) was ruining the natural beauty in any way., The sign board is also man made.

I found this one to be a non insure, but then I did go to Ladakh exactly 5 years back. Situation could have worsened now. But one situation which has definitely worsened is not that of stickering, it is of generating waste and dirtying locations like Pangong TSO etc.

When visiting these places, we must always remember that the ecosystem here is very fragile and is not designed for the immense number of people who end up showing up here every year. We have to take every effort minimise our effect on the ecosystem.

I read an article recently which showed the dark side of tourism in Ladakh, the landfills filled with mineral water bottles. From what I remember in 2012, mineral water bottles were banned in Leh. You could only refill what you already had. I had carried 2x1l water bottles with me for my ride from Srinagar riding towards Leh and would refill them at every opportunity (dhaba, hotel, mountain streams and waterfalls). I carried the same bottles all the way back via Manali to Chandigarh, when I finally got rid of them and bought new ones.

My suggestion: the stickers are probably not hurting anyone. Stop concentrating on the trivial, reduce your own trash footprint on the ecosystem, that is something which will contribute in the long term.

Last edited by antz.bin : 3rd August 2017 at 08:58.
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Old 3rd August 2017, 09:06   #25
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Default Re: Bike & car groups vandalizing road signs in the Himalayas

My friend - Your post is dripping with a sense of entitlement and self indulgence that beggars belief. Thousands of people have done the same ride you did. Nothing, absolutely nothing grants you / your group or anyone else the right to deface public property.

The BRO has its hands full with building roads in some of the most inhospitable terrain in the world, while being saddled with equipment that should've retired long back and we are entitled enough to say this. Do you want someone to drive across the entire highway every day just checking on the signs? Is that what our tax money should be splurged on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achekay View Post
Apologies for defiling the Kunzum Pass board with two of our stickers. On a road which no one can get lost on, those stickers sure are a hindrance to tavelers.

We have the good sense to know how to conduct ourselves and leave our club's mark in a good way. So many people have put up their stickers on similar boards, cafes, and otherwise prominent places everywhere from such a long time. One hate post, and everyone's suddenly a critic?
Also, these boards are put up by BRO. If they had wanted all those stickers brought down from their signs, it would have happened a long time ago, and the practice would have quickly died out.
Help me understand - you click the photo with your flag / banner / sticker and then take it back home. Isn't that cool enough?

Its public property - that doesnt mean everyone is entitled to deface / embellish it the way they want.

Stickers inside cafes is different - those are done with permission and those are not critical signboards.

Here's what I'll do - the next time I'm out riding to those parts, I'll carry acetone and a blade. Whenever I come across such signs with such "good sense marks", I hereby promise that I will take as many as possible down.
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Old 3rd August 2017, 11:05   #26
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Default Re: Bike & car groups vandalizing road signs in the Himalayas

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Originally Posted by Dry Ice View Post
Sorry, but I disagree.

There is no lack of maniacs on the hills as on the plains. If you drive long enough on the hills, you will come across many ill-driven local cars. Majority of them - taxis. I am not defending the Zoomcar crowd here, sure, most (not all) are reckless most of the time, but the local taxis are no less! And this is across the hill states of UK,JK,HP. I never let these guys be around me, either let them overtake or stop to let them go (even if I am climbing and have a right of way).

Nobody uses high beams correctly in this country (hills are no different).

The only time I have experienced sane local taxis is in the Northeast. But then almost everyone drives sanely there, even the truckers!
I agree with you, NE states are by far the best when it comes to road etiquette. Considering the quality of roads in NE is not as good as one finds in say Himachal, its commendable of the drivers to stay calm on the roads.

I have also witnessed reasonablly good drivers whenever I took the less known roads even in Himachal. It seems that the maniac behavior is limited to trunk / main routes in Himachal and Uttaranchal. Even driving in Bhutan from Phuentsholing to Paro & Thimphu was lovely when everyone was following the rules - vehicle going up has the right of way, extensive guidance by trucks to the cars following them on when to stay calm and when to overtake them. It was pleasure.

I have not driven in JK so can't say much about that.

Last edited by i74js : 3rd August 2017 at 11:06.
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Old 3rd August 2017, 11:31   #27
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Default Re: Bike & car groups vandalizing road signs in the Himalayas

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Originally Posted by Achekay View Post
Also, these boards are put up by BRO. If they had wanted all those stickers brought down from their signs, it would have happened a long time ago, and the practice would have quickly died out.
Hmmm. My neighbor's house was put up by their family. If they didn't want people sticking flyers on their walls, they would have removed them a long time ago and the practice would have quickly died out.

Amazing logic to justify me putting up flyers on my neighbor's house na?!

But of course this is on 'public property' and so it's everyone's right to do whatever they want to it. Come on guys, just enjoy the ride. It's rewarding enough to just do it, and know that you have done it, without having to boast to the entire world that you 'achieved' it.

I remember that the restaurant in Lamayuru has a board/door where the staff allow bike clubs to put their logos. Why not put these there instead of on road signs.

Last edited by am1m : 3rd August 2017 at 11:37.
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Old 3rd August 2017, 12:07   #28
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Default Re: Bike & car groups vandalizing road signs in the Himalayas

I am a biker and part of a few biker groups in Bangalore. I have met a lot of bikers. Most of us like to show the world that riding is fun. We use helmets with GoPro cams, make videos, then spend hours editing them and then upload on all possible social media websites. Some of us write blogs and travelogues to share our riding experience with the world (including me). Most of us click pictures and post on facebook etc. Few of us hate it that biking has developed into this culture of showing off what we do. Which ever category we might fall in, let us remember that our actions represent the biking fraternity. As bikers, we SHOULD NOT support vandalism.

Just think about the so many good things that biker groups are doing:
1. Encouraging safety gear
2. Encouraging to follow traffic rules
3. Participating in social causes like blood donation camps
4. Building up the foundation for a bigger biking fraternity in India

Lets stand for these good things. Lets not support anything illegal. Vandalism is illegal. No matter how many reasons we come up with to justify it, vandalism will remain illegal and a nuisance to the general public.
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Old 3rd August 2017, 12:34   #29
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Default Re: Bike & car groups vandalizing road signs in the Himalayas

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Originally Posted by ashwin1224 View Post
Forgive us for celebrating all the hardwork and occupying a 4inx2in space on a road sign.
You are free to find a private cafe or anywhere else and get permission from the owner to stick your stickers there. As a biker and driver who has been to travelled to a lot of strange and adventures locations around the world, I find your attitude moronic.

No one forced you to go up to Leh - you chose to do that. Stick how many ever stickers you want on the door to your place and no one will question it. Damaging a pubic sign board whether it's useful or not is not OK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achekay View Post
Apologies for defiling the Kunzum Pass board with two of our stickers.

We, DONRC are not irresponsible in any way.
Contradictory statements don't you think? Seems very irresponsible to stick group logos on sign boards. Also shows your group probably doesn't have a handle on what is responsible behavior at all or more likely just some members of your group members no idea and are giving the rest of your group a bad name.

I am a member of a couple of riding groups myself, and unfortunately the actions of groups with fragile ego's reflect badly on the biking community in general.
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Old 3rd August 2017, 12:51   #30
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Default Re: Bike & car groups vandalizing road signs in the Himalayas

A couple of pics of the BRO at work:

Bike & car groups vandalizing road signs in the Himalayas-20160708_142244.jpg

Bike & car groups vandalizing road signs in the Himalayas-20160708_143056.jpg

Clicked during my last ride there, last year. These guys spend months living in tents, clad in old gumboots, half torn sweaters, inadequate gloves, breaking stones all day, carrying loads, digging the ground and making the roads that we tourists glide on to our hotels where we can use the wi-fi to upload posts with captions like 'conquered Ladakh'

Oh, and they do this every year. But yeah, we're the ones with the achievements here.
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