Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > Motorbikes


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 13th August 2017, 01:09   #46
BHPian
 
Madhav Nayak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 25
Thanked: 83 Times
Default Re: TVS Apache RTR 200 or Yamaha FZ25?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
A point I've noted:- All ABSs are not created equal. Whether by design (optimising different parameters) or otherwise I would not know. But the fact that maybe the one I'm riding on has not been sufficiently tested, put on as a marketing tick the box option, or forced to by government regulations, will always be at the back of my mind.

Anyway, with shills and trolls abounding, a topic well worth avoiding.

Regards
Sutripta
I agree with the bolded part, but the rest of your response has left me rather curious. I wonder if you would humor me with a little more on the same?
Madhav Nayak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th August 2017, 19:46   #47
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 3,477
Thanked: 2,013 Times
Default Re: TVS Apache RTR 200 or Yamaha FZ25?

^^^
Mums the word. As I said,
Quote:
a topic well worth avoiding.
Regards
Sutripta
Sutripta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th August 2017, 20:27   #48
Senior - BHPian
 
IshaanIan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Hyd/B'lore
Posts: 2,364
Thanked: 2,954 Times
Default Re: TVS Apache RTR 200 or Yamaha FZ25?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madhav Nayak View Post
I agree with the bolded part, but the rest of your response has left me rather curious. I wonder if you would humor me with a little more on the same?
I guess what he meant was that they simply don't offer outright braking performance. Even I believe that these ABS systems in small bikes are simply not optimized properly enough. I own an RC390 (old model not the new one but I have been using sintered brake pads) and switching the ABS off makes a HUGE difference in terms of braking feel, initial bite, and progression. The steel braided lines really have a chance to shine through only once the ABS is turned off. I feel like that is because it is poorly calibrated. No doubt in panic braking situations and in the wet it can prove to be a lifesaver for even the most experienced riders out there especially given our unpredictable indian road and traffic conditions, but the fact that with ABS turned on, my bike feels like it is robbed of initial bite and braking feel and also the ABS seems to engage way too early under hard braking, kind of bums me out. I really wish more effort was put into optimizing and calibrating abs systems on these small bikes.
IshaanIan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th August 2017, 18:38   #49
BHPian
 
Madhav Nayak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 25
Thanked: 83 Times
Default Re: TVS Apache RTR 200 or Yamaha FZ25?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
I guess what he meant was that they simply don't offer outright braking performance. Even I believe that these ABS systems in small bikes are simply not optimized properly enough. I own an RC390 (old model not the new one but I have been using sintered brake pads) and switching the ABS off makes a HUGE difference in terms of braking feel, initial bite, and progression. The steel braided lines really have a chance to shine through only once the ABS is turned off. I feel like that is because it is poorly calibrated. No doubt in panic braking situations and in the wet it can prove to be a lifesaver for even the most experienced riders out there especially given our unpredictable indian road and traffic conditions, but the fact that with ABS turned on, my bike feels like it is robbed of initial bite and braking feel and also the ABS seems to engage way too early under hard braking, kind of bums me out. I really wish more effort was put into optimizing and calibrating abs systems on these small bikes.
Rightly said. Once a photographer told me that he was miffed at the camera giants because they spend a lot of money on making the auto mode for beginners/amateurs to use, which ultimately drives the prices up almost sky high. I guess this is a similar case.
Madhav Nayak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th August 2017, 22:59   #50
BHPian
 
sriramv.iyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 825
Thanked: 683 Times
Default Re: TVS Apache RTR 200 or Yamaha FZ25?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madhav Nayak View Post
Rightly said. Once a photographer told me that he was miffed at the camera giants because they spend a lot of money on making the auto mode for beginners/amateurs to use, which ultimately drives the prices up almost sky high. I guess this is a similar case.
I have told this elsewhere in other threads, and I won't hesitate to repeat.

This is wrong analogy.

When the wheel locks, there is no human who can apply brake and release multiple times within a second. It is not a question of skill. It is humanely impossible to do what an ABS does.

While quality of ABS implementations will vary (just like brake quality), one cannot underestimate the importance of ABS in automobiles.
sriramv.iyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th August 2017, 09:05   #51
BHPian
 
ashwinprakas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Kollam
Posts: 75
Thanked: 153 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
How serious you are? It makes peak torque at 7,000 revs, but irrespective of that, it will kick any 150cc Motorcycle at similar revs.
I belive you've got the wrong variant. The variant with the horizontal motor peaks out at 4k rpm, this is torque we're talking about, not peak power.

Quote:
Precisely why the entire world is moving to fuel injection. And it is just so easy to adjust your carburetor equipped motorcycle high up in the mountains.
True about running like crap on the mountains but the keyword is that it would still run. With carbs it's either you run or you limp, but with FI's it's either you run or you don't and that is considering limp mode.

P.S. Thought I support carbs I'm not a fan of CV's anything cable operated is the way to go, you can run it thought out the length and breadth of the country with the only hassle being a cable snap if by chance it does snap.
ashwinprakas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th August 2017, 11:35   #52
BHPian
 
Madhav Nayak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 25
Thanked: 83 Times
Default Re: TVS Apache RTR 200 or Yamaha FZ25?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sriramv.iyer View Post
I have told this elsewhere in other threads, and I won't hesitate to repeat.

This is wrong analogy.

When the wheel locks, there is no human who can apply brake and release multiple times within a second. It is not a question of skill. It is humanely impossible to do what an ABS does.

While quality of ABS implementations will vary (just like brake quality), one cannot underestimate the importance of ABS in automobiles.
Forgive me, if it sounded like I was undermining the importance of ABS in a vehicle. I wasn't. This discussion was purely on the lack of attention to ABS on these smaller vehicles that make them hard to live with. No doubt ABS is a very important safety feature, one of the best available for two wheelers, no less. Even though I call the ABS on the RTR crappy, I have been saved by the crappy ABS from rear ending a couple of idiot car drivers. I would never dream of pulling out the ABS fuse on my CBR unless I were in a controlled environment like a race track.

That being said, the ABS we get on our bikes leaves a lot to be expected. It is NOT for enthusiasts and definitely will not benefit experienced riders. You have rightly said that it's humanely impossible to pump the brakes like the ABS software does, but it is not impossible to use the brakes to prevent wheel locking - the ability to do so depends on one's presence of mind in a panic-worthy situation and his skill. Once the wheels are past the "locked" line, ABS is undoubtedly invaluable. The way ABS functions right now, us riders are robbed of the ability to prevent wheel locking with ABS doing most of the work. That's my gripe with ABS available on "small" bikes.

It's not that the manufacturers can't do something about it, it's just that the costs would be driven up and, unfortunately, in a market like ours, that's tantamount to no sales. I hope this makes my stance on the issue a little clearer.
Madhav Nayak is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 1st September 2017, 15:50   #53
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 100
Thanked: 35 Times
Smile Re: TVS Apache RTR 200 or Yamaha FZ25?

Fellow enthusiasts, I know we digressed from the topic a little, but a quick update on the topic. I took delivery of my FZ25 (Warrior White) on 30th August. I will create a separate ownership thread as and when time permits.

Thank you all for your valuable feedback. Mods, please help close this thread or make appropriate edits so that fellow BHPians are not mislead. Thank you.
tejus.s is offline   (5) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th September 2017, 07:27   #54
BHPian
 
ashwinprakas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Kollam
Posts: 75
Thanked: 153 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tejus.s View Post
Fellow enthusiasts, I know we digressed from the topic a little, but a quick update on the topic. I took delivery of my FZ25 (Warrior White) on 30th August. I will create a separate ownership thread as and when time permits.

Thank you all for your valuable feedback. Mods, please help close this thread or make appropriate edits so that fellow BHPians are not mislead. Thank you.
Congratulations on the purchase. Don't bother much about the run in, cause ideally the same would get over within the first 50kms of riding. An early oil change would give you peace of mind as well.

Rather than trying to keep the speed/rpm limited, I'd suggest you do the same only for the first 50~150kms and then ride as you normally do.
ashwinprakas is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th September 2017, 07:35   #55
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Chennai
Posts: 28
Thanked: 10 Times
Default Re: TVS Apache RTR 200 or Yamaha FZ25?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tejus.s View Post
Fellow enthusiasts, I know we digressed from the topic a little, but a quick update on the topic. I took delivery of my FZ25 (Warrior White) on 30th August. I will create a separate ownership thread as and when time permits.

Thank you all for your valuable feedback. Mods, please help close this thread or make appropriate edits so that fellow BHPians are not mislead. Thank you.
Congratulations! I got one recently for local errands and I am happy with my choice. Regarding tyre pressure, the manual says 29 psi front & rear, but the showroom guy's recommendation was different. What's the tyre pressure that you are maintaining? Thanks
bharath14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th September 2017, 10:43   #56
Senior - BHPian
 
IshaanIan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Hyd/B'lore
Posts: 2,364
Thanked: 2,954 Times
Default Re: TVS Apache RTR 200 or Yamaha FZ25?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bharath14 View Post
Congratulations! I got one recently for local errands and I am happy with my choice. Regarding tyre pressure, the manual says 29 psi front & rear, but the showroom guy's recommendation was different. What's the tyre pressure that you are maintaining? Thanks
With bikes it's usually a LOT easier to accurately gauge how much tire pressure you need. It depends on your weight really. The manufacturer's recommended tire pressures ought to be on the left side of the swing-arm on a metal sticker. Manufacturer recommendations usually keep in mind that the average weight of a male rider is anywhere between 75-85 kilos. So if you fit exactly in that range then you can use the recommended tire pressures if not experiment a bit to see which gives you most confidence. Ideally you want something that settles into corners and bends quickly (if tire pressure is too low the bike takes time to settle into a lean) yet doesn't get too bouncy (if tire pressure is too high).

Last edited by IshaanIan : 4th September 2017 at 10:58.
IshaanIan is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th September 2017, 12:21   #57
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 100
Thanked: 35 Times
Default Re: TVS Apache RTR 200 or Yamaha FZ25?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bharath14 View Post
Congratulations! I got one recently for local errands and I am happy with my choice. Regarding tyre pressure, the manual says 29 psi front & rear, but the showroom guy's recommendation was different. What's the tyre pressure that you are maintaining? Thanks
Thanks Bharath, as quoted below by Ishaan, it really is subjective and the staff at petrol pumps usually fail to oblige since they are checking many vehicles at once. Better practice would be to visit a store nearby and try out a few combinations before deciding for yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
Manufacturer recommendations usually keep in mind that the average weight of a male rider is anywhere between 75-85 kilos. So if you fit exactly in that range then you can use the recommended tire pressures if not experiment a bit to see which gives you most confidence. Ideally you want something that settles into corners and bends quickly (if tire pressure is too low the bike takes time to settle into a lean) yet doesn't get too bouncy (if tire pressure is too high).
tejus.s is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
TVS Apache RTR 200 4V : My Sports Tourer Sportztourer Motorbikes 50 18th October 2017 11:04
TVS Apache RTR 200 and facelifted Victor launched //M Motorbikes 47 10th May 2017 22:43
Tire mods for TVS Apache RTR!!!! arunjp Motorbikes 17 21st May 2013 16:26
TVS Apache RTR 160 "Fi": 0to60 in 3.8secs akkii Motorbikes 20 24th September 2009 14:57
TVS Apache RTR or Pulsor 200? safari_lover Motorbikes 20 24th October 2007 22:55


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 13:03.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks