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Old 21st August 2017, 19:58   #46
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Default Re: Bajaj announces partnership with Triumph Motors!

I meant CBR (please do not forget the CBR150) lost out to R15, symbolically, by stating 'dohc lost to sohc'. My knowledge is much non technical so please correct me critically if I am wrong. The R15's sohc provided the character for the bike (helped by its 4 valves) and it own over the CBR's smooth dohc, on cost factor.

I do feel R15 and CBR250 has a overlapping customer base. The ones looking for reliable mini sport bike with good performance for mainly city use but who do ride out once in a while.
Out of the R15 riders there definitely are riders with rider and riding characteristics better suited to CBR250. The sale figures of R15 and CBRs are way too skewed to be explained on R15's handling characteristics alone is what I mean.
(I own a R15 since 2009 and I love it.)

The context is why Indians failed the Japanese companies' attempt at mid range capacity bikes like the CBR. I feel it is to do with money mindedness of our upper mid class. The sort of buyers who can afford another 80k but most of us would not because there is a cheaper alternative available which is reasonably well performing. (What I meant by CBR debacle)

Although payeng ji implies (and I agree) this as the wholesome reason for the disinterest shown by the Japs I feel they should have done more.

Last edited by aah78 : 21st August 2017 at 20:02. Reason: Post edited for readablity.
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Old 22nd August 2017, 16:37   #47
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Default Re: Bajaj announces partnership with Triumph Motors!

Bajaj -KTM - Triumph
Mahindra - BSA - Jawa
TVS - BMW

Of all these partnerships, who will bring out a minimalist bike, with decent power and mileage,reliable for everyday use,which is suitable for all ages of riders ?
Who will bring out a cost effective bike under 1 lakh on road price ?
I think these are the kind of bikes missing in our market currently. I Wish someone would do these !
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Old 22nd August 2017, 17:16   #48
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Originally Posted by JozfGT View Post
Bajaj -KTM - Triumph
Mahindra - BSA - Jawa
TVS - BMW

Who will bring out a cost effective bike under 1 lakh on road price ?
India already has the Legendary Splendor and Activa at the price point you are looking at
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Old 23rd August 2017, 17:55   #49
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Originally Posted by JozfGT View Post
Bajaj -KTM - Triumph
Mahindra - BSA - Jawa
TVS - BMW

a minimalist bike,
under 1 lakh on road price? !
Why?!
As mentioned there are excellent options for that. Absolute legends.
The 'one fit all' concept is not applicable to bikes, more so in a country like ours.

Could they bring out different models of same engine? Not completely different bikes but just feature / parts variations. Like how they do with cars.
Price variation between the low end and top end models of cars is about 30%. Is that a feasible concept in bikes?
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Old 23rd August 2017, 18:17   #50
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Why?!
As mentioned there are excellent options for that. Absolute legends.
The 'one fit all' concept is not applicable to bikes, more so in a country like ours.

Could they bring out different models of same engine? Not completely different bikes but just feature / parts variations. Like how they do with cars.
Price variation between the low end and top end models of cars is about 30%. Is that a feasible concept in bikes?
Yes, you are right. We do have a lot of mid range bikes. But are they reliable enough ? I had a bajaj discover earlier, we brought it as brand new. As time passed, there happened to be a hole in the petrol tank.! Maybe it was a manufacturing defect.But is that it ? The mileage and the overall performance of the bike really got bad after 7 years of very light use. I had done all the periodical maintenance as required. At the same time, I had a bajaj super, quite an old scooter as you know, never had any reliability issue worth mentioning.

And the other point the mid range bikes of today miss is styling.I am not talking about a lot of plastic parts, I am talking about just enough parts which wouldn't cause problems on it's own. The plastic parts in lot of our bikes and scooters lack quality in my opinion.

What I am thinking is a bike that looks good,however reliable like old jawa,yet not that pricey. I know it's a lot to ask. But it doesn't cost a penny to wish for things, right ?
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Old 23rd August 2017, 22:21   #51
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....not that pricey. I know it's a lot to ask. But it doesn't cost a penny to wish for things, right ?
To "wish" KTM, BMW and Triumph do it at sub 1 lakh is downright hilarious though.

What next a sub 1 lakh "Ducati"?




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Old 23rd August 2017, 23:57   #52
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But are they reliable enough ? At the same time, I had a bajaj super, quite an old scooter as you know, never had any reliability issue worth mentioning.

reliable like old jawa,yet not that pricey. I know it's a lot to ask. But it doesn't cost a penny to wish for things, right ?
My mechanic used to race with the Vijay super with minimal racing modifications and a lot of chopping. Not just drag race but drifting! He has pictures showing exactly what he claims! So they did come with parts of that quality. Anodised metals and stuff. The mechanicals were relatively minimalistic and involving but durable. Coming from a non technical myself I won't do justice discussing the matter.
With the advent of 'fill it forget it bikes' the mechanicals got that much more complicatedly delicate and hence the trade off was less durability.
That is the outcome of our ever increasing demand from a bike. The economy of the business has changed. The costs involved have increased exponentially, the profit target set out by the corporate ownerships have increased. So there will be cost cutting to satisfy our 'value for money' scale. Just your demand of "yet not pricey" demand highlights that!

Yezdi vanished literally for the same reason. RE survived highlighting the exact concept of plastic parts. Now it's neither there nor here.
Cost and profit at the centre of everything sir.
So unless you get somebody to come up with a non profit company bringing bikes with the qualities listed by you at the price point quoted by you, your wish is very misplaced sir.


Quote:
Originally Posted by payeng View Post
To "wish" KTM, BMW and Triumph do it at sub 1 lakh is downright hilarious though.

What next a sub 1 lakh "Ducati"?
The navi could get a cafe racing scrambling retro Ducati dress over!
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Old 24th August 2017, 10:38   #53
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My mechanic used to race with the Vijay super with minimal racing modifications and a lot of chopping. Not just drag race but drifting! He has pictures showing exactly what he claims! So they did come with parts of that quality. Anodised metals and stuff. The mechanicals were relatively minimalistic and involving but durable. Coming from a non technical myself I won't do justice discussing the matter.
With the advent of 'fill it forget it bikes' the mechanicals got that much more complicatedly delicate and hence the trade off was less durability.
That is the outcome of our ever increasing demand from a bike. The economy of the business has changed. The costs involved have increased exponentially, the profit target set out by the corporate ownerships have increased. So there will be cost cutting to satisfy our 'value for money' scale. Just your demand of "yet not pricey" demand highlights that!

Yezdi vanished literally for the same reason. RE survived highlighting the exact concept of plastic parts. Now it's neither there nor here.
Cost and profit at the centre of everything sir.
So unless you get somebody to come up with a non profit company bringing bikes with the qualities listed by you at the price point quoted by you, your wish is very misplaced sir.




The navi could get a cafe racing scrambling retro Ducati dress over!
Exactly..!
This is the point I am looking into. Only if somebody would really look outside of the business side of the deal, we could have some really rugged bikes, with nothing to worry about.

My dad used to ride Yezdi,Bajaj Cub and almost all of those two wheeler from Banglore to our place during his twenties. He had very few issues with the rides,mostly bulbs blown or some nuts needs to be tightened or maybe a puncture.

I really wish some bikes were build like these again, or if they could make modifications legal, then we could just do a lot ourselves. Just like the Navi you mentioned, if the entire plastic kit of the HH Karizma is taken out, we can greatly reduce the weight of the bike and what we get is the CRF230, a bit less powerful though.

Like these, there are a lot of modifications that we can do, which is illegal in my knowledge.

Last edited by GTO : 24th August 2017 at 17:38. Reason: As requested
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Old 11th September 2017, 15:16   #54
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Default Re: Bajaj announces partnership with Triumph Motors!

Shocked with this news -

https://www.motorbeam.com/all-triump...m-dealerships/

Although, I'm 100% in favour of this Bajaj - KTM - Triumph development, IMO - they should have left the Triumph brand indepandant as it was! Not sure about having the entire range sold through KTM dealerships!

Good news? The service costs might come down.

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 11th September 2017 at 15:23.
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Old 10th November 2017, 09:16   #55
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Bajaj - Triumph alliance to roll out mid capacity motorcycles by 2021 👌

https://auto.ndtv.com/news/triumph-m...y-2021-1772442
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Old 10th November 2017, 09:53   #56
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Default Re: Bajaj announces partnership with Triumph Motors!

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Originally Posted by GKR9900 View Post
Bajaj - Triumph alliance to roll out mid capacity motorcycles by 2021 👌

https://auto.ndtv.com/news/triumph-m...y-2021-1772442
Is that not too late. I am supposing by 2021, the shift to electric would have started.
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Old 12th November 2017, 01:30   #57
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Default Re: Bajaj announces partnership with Triumph Motors!

Remember this...

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attac...1&d=1510427314

?

Triumph 'street single' - was in testing last year, reported to be their big play in emerging markets. Personally I think it's ugly, but Triumphs tend to be nice to ride and handle exceptionally well, so it would have been perceived as a threat in that sector. Then it gets pulled, now this news, which is, I suspect, not entirely unrelated?

This statement is interesting...

KTM rides in a space which is sporty riding. There is also another world out there which is the world of easy riding, the world of Harley-Davidson, Triumph and Royal Enfield

Street Triple RS not "sporty"? Come off it Mr Bajaj, there's never been a Harley built that could hold a candle to that on a track and even the quickest KTMs would have to work hard.

What really worries me is the absence of a Daytona 765 from the lineup and the end of the Rocket III. I would be gutted to see Triumph slowly regress into a British Harley Davidson only making predictably old skool models.

I think you can expect some new Indian made old skool 300-700cc models wearing Triumph badges, not sure what it says about Triumph's intentions for their modern bikes. If they've agreed to pull them out of India to get this tie up then that's a serious miscalculation in my eyes and they should have sought a tie up with an Indian firm that doesn't have it's fingers in a brand (KTM) that has plenty of crossover with Triumph in global markets.

I suspect Bajaj / KTM might have got the better end of this deal.

It's a double edged sword for Indian consumers if I'm close to reading it right - sounds like a big push into Enfield territory is coming, but if it reduces competition in other areas of the market and denies India access to bikes like the Street Triple in the long term, then its very much a mixed bag. If it means Triumph are turning their back on making envelope pushing progressive machines altogether as the quote above could be seen to imply then its a disaster for bike fans everywhere.
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