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Old 10th November 2017, 10:46   #91
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Default Re: Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine

The bikes look yummy overall. I do not know if its just the angle of the photos or not, but the rear of both bikes look puny, could have done with some chunkier tyres, also the gap between the rear wheel and the mudguard looks too big IMO.

With regards to reliability and issues - to be honest many people who buy bikes like RE and Harleys are buying it for the heritage, nostalgic feel and not for the advanced technology or bullet-proof reliability and riding comfort of the modern day bikes. So they are ok with the quirks, oil leaks, bad brakes and ancient tech. I do not think that will be an issue with the prospective buyers, who may be keeping aside money already to get the bike when it hits the Indian shores

I suppose pricing and ironing out any problems with the new engine will be the key points for success of the bikes in any market. Wait and watch I guess.

Last edited by tsk1979 : 11th November 2017 at 05:55. Reason: to add more.
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Old 10th November 2017, 11:49   #92
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Default Re: Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine

Finally a twin cylinder cafe racer. The CGT650 looks the part and I really hope it performs too. Can't wait to take it out for a spin.

The single cylinder 535 does not rev beyond 5000 rpm. And feels it feels strained very quickly. That's not what you want from a cafe racer. This has it's maximum power figure at 7100 rpm. It's still on the lower side but better than 5000.

I would have liked to see 120 and 150 section tyres in the front and back.

The dormant designer in me is already thinking of ways to make it look better. I already have a list of things to do if i ever get this.
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Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine-copy-4.jpg  

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Old 10th November 2017, 12:21   #93
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Default Re: Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine

Everyone talks about how the Royal Enfield is worth more and there's nothing wrong in paying so much even if the reliability is poor since we are buying it for it's heritage.

In that sense we should really praise Bajaj a lot for giving us high tech bikes such as the KTM's with hi-tech at affordable rates while still selling it at much higher rates abroad.

I feel in that sense Bajaj deserves my money more than Royal Enfield who just want to milk their home customer's just because of their heritage and brand loyalty.
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Old 10th November 2017, 12:52   #94
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Default Re: Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob UK View Post
Anybody criticising RE for going SOHC on an 8v twin is simply revealing their own ignorance of bike engineering.

I would ask then "so, how many cams does a Honda CRF1000L 8v twin have?"

(Hint, the answer is less than 2 and more than 0)

The new engine hasn't been designed by some old dude in a shed in Chennai with a sheet of graph paper
Honestly, nobody is bothered whether the bike has 1 OHC or 24. The 1000s of college kids riding REs in Bangalore are no different. What people are expecting is a reliable machine which can be ridden with reasonable confidence of not breaking down, with no weekly visits to the mechanic either. Horror stories of the Himalayan are still fresh in our minds. Please excuse our doubting minds. The bikes look brilliant. But, as a niggle-free daily ride, looks won't be enough. The Himalayan didn't score anything in that dept. I still see the Himalayan as a wasted opportunity.
I'd gladly get a Himalayan and Interceptor once i feel they are reliable and decide which bank to rob.

Last edited by Torqy : 10th November 2017 at 12:54.
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Old 10th November 2017, 13:29   #95
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Default Re: Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine

Firstly, congratulations Royal Enfield for attempting the twin!! They still have my praise for conceiving Himalayan a couple of years back. Its the intent here which is praise worthy, without which, to begin with, there would be no Himalayans or the interceptors.

RE very-well knows its target customers and market. Himalayan was born from the Leh-Ladakh dream which majority of riders aspire for. RE knows that they will not be able to compete on technology and quality with 750+cc engine available from other manufacturers, hence want to create a niche for themselves in the middle-weight. Rightly so, as there aren't really much options in this category, especially when considering a modern classic configuration. In country like ours, price still plays a big role. Our of 100 only 6 buy the UCE500 and rest UCE350, cos to begin-with, both the bikes look identical and UCE500 is comparatively expensive. Even for Himalayan, they wanted to keep the cost low, hence carburetor, lack of ABS, quality of parts compromised and the result is for everyone to see.

I feel RE compromises a lot when it comes to quality w.r.t cost. Someone here mentioned that the twins were not designed on graph paper in chennai. Agree, they were designed in Austria (known for giving birth to katoom engines which are engineering marvel), but again at big compromise. LS 410 being a totally modern engine, designed by AVL with all technology available today, is still a very unrefined mill with unrefined gear box, producing a meagre 25bhp (at crank) from 410cc mill, where the next door neighbor is extracting 44bhp from a 373cc mill. Ans its not like to maintain certain engine characteristics. The Thump is gone, the old school pushrods are gone, engine and gear box have been integrated, engines have become relatively higher revving, and so on. All this to maybe keep cost low wrt materials used on the engine and bike itself. Faster engine would require much better materials and tolerances and faster speed would require much better chassis and other cycle parts which all come at a cost.

The new 650 twins would most likely follow same strategy which is try to keep manufacturing cost low, which results in better sales albeit with some niggles which the company is anyways associated with and knows how to handle/ignore. This is the reason the 650 twin is still only producing 47bhp and some 50 odd nm of torque. So under-powered and under-torqued for the displacement for sure. And take REs BHP figures with a big pinch of salt. For the Classic 500 claimed BHP was 27.2 at crank, and reduced to 19 by the time it reached the rear wheel. Dyno tested on multiple C5 bike by powertronics during their development of juice box for the bike.

Going by the history and also personal experience, niggles and teething issues will be there and plenty if not twice on the twins. Hoping i am wrong, and hoping they have done a good job with the engine. I will be really looking forward to this engine on the Himalayan.

Coming to aesthetics, most of the retro classics appear similar. the new twins are definitely nice to look at but i feel it could have been better provided they already had other classics in market for ref. The engine side cover in chrome and the block on top with their present shape look a bit odd. Tank capacity could be bit more then current 13.something L. just putting the bike next to bonnie SE for a comparison. I will not sell my bonnie for the 650 interceptor as i have my eyes on the Z900RS but am definitely looking forward to twins on Himalayan.
Attached Thumbnails
Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine-01-02.jpg  

Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine-01-01.jpg  


Last edited by tsk1979 : 11th November 2017 at 05:56. Reason: Formatted the post for ease of reading and fixed a few typos. Kindly proofread your posts before submitting
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Old 10th November 2017, 17:11   #96
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Default Re: Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine

I am not a big fan of RE for various reasons but I must say, the Interceptor looks stunning. An Indian Bonnie

I hope they have also improved the nagging issues RE has been infamous for.
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Old 10th November 2017, 17:41   #97
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Default Re: Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob UK View Post
Anybody criticizing RE for going SOHC on an 8v twin is simply revealing their own ignorance of bike engineering.
Since I was the one to bring up the SOHC bit, I guess this is directed at me. You are absolutely correct; my knowledge of engines and how they work is extremely basic. I merely pointed this out as an example of a rather simple engine layout than something path breaking. Most (not all) modern motorcycles come with a DOHC setup and that's what at least I have come to expect from a performance machine. That said...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob UK View Post
I would ask then "so, how many cams does a Honda CRF1000L 8v twin have?"
Anyone comparing a brand new Honda engine with RE is not exactly in touch with reality. Both have an SOHC configuration? Great!! But that's where the similarities end, at least for me. Anything special you might want to highlight (purely basis specs or technical other details) about this (RE) engine? For instance - Here's what cycleworld had to say about Honda's engineering:

Neat details include a cleverly packaged water pump housed within the clutch casing (the water and oil pumps are driven by a shared balancer shaft). A compact lower crankcase stores the oil and houses the oil pump.


Any such engineering feats you see on the RE? Please feel free to point them out to me

One of the above 2 being compared has earned their reputation for being utterly reliable; while the other has earned the reputation of being wheezy, unreliable, leaky Oilfields. See if you can guess which is which

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob UK View Post
The new engine hasn't been designed by some old dude in a shed in Chennai with a sheet of graph paper
Unless you were referring to the talented folks at Harris performance, who proudly mentioned developing the frame for the (at that time) much awaited Himalayan; many of which that have cracked at the sign of first pot hole (please allow the exaggeration)

On a sidenote, I simply do not understand the motorcycle scene in India. Long back when the spyshots of the new Duke 390 were out, people were quoting 3.5 as a "Good Price" for that bike. Prior to Dominar's reveal, most people quoted (and vociferously defended when challenged) expected prices of this Bajaj even upwards of the 2016 Duke 390

And now THIS

Are people really so (please insert a polite adjective coz I cant think of one)? Do they have bag loads of money that they would spend simply on bling, without an iota of thought given to performance and value? Does value = bling?

Last edited by GTO : 14th November 2017 at 23:40. Reason: Keep it cool. No need for rude / sarcastic posts
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Old 10th November 2017, 19:31   #98
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Default Re: Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine

Having bought the C5 in 2011 I can confidently say that any RE motorcycle is safe to buy after 5 years of its launch. RE very recently swapped the swingarm on the Classic's with what should have been there from the beginning. If a 390 Duke would have been there in my garage, it would have surely clocked in more than double the kilometers than my C5.

Last edited by .anshuman : 11th November 2017 at 05:50. Reason: Fixed typo on request. Thanks
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Old 10th November 2017, 20:19   #99
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Default Re: Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine

Quote:
Do they have bag loads of money that they would spend simply on bling, without an iota of thought given to performance and value?
Completely agree!
I have always said and maintained that since the introduction of UCE500 in 2010 in India, REs have been grossly overpriced for the equipment, spares and service they offer. Except for may be Himalayan, most other RE products are overpriced. Look at what 390 offer as part of equipment on bike, that is value for money. They sell because of associated brand image.
Wonder why is everyone is speculating it to be around 5L or more. Thats a bit too much, for a bike which is mostly 95% made in India. Coming to pricing, my guesstimate is about a lakh more then the Continental GT535, in the region of 3.5L or thereabouts.
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Old 10th November 2017, 20:39   #100
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Default Re: Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine

Maybe it's the nuances of the language that the Brits came up with that prevent us from processing what's clearly laid out & inferring the obvious.

Let's try to address this outside fanboyism. A person looking for a new retro ride with Indian budget currently has ONLY RE as an option. Absolutely nothing else. That budget part is the key here. Equate it to any number<5 lacs onroad. Neither will he consider a 390 or the likes, however spectacular they might be, nor would he care for the specs/tech obsoleteness since his selection does move quite well & gives him a chance to do that long trip he always wished for without breaking the bank. Anyone is free to give him a better option(no 750, used please). Why am I not seeing any raised hands?

Now let's say Triumph gone bonkers & started offering current Bonnie at 5lacs onroad while the INT650 goes for 4lacs onroad. I for one would still take the INT because I need a motorcycle, not a techcycle. If Bonnie gets stripped off all that unnecessary(to me) stuff & gives me a pure motorcycle @5lacs, sure I'd cough up that extra lac.

This is the kind of buyer that goes for RE. Simple, moderate power, manageable quality & that aspiration to sit on something that feels serious. Absolutely no concern is given for where that torque curve fall at x point. Any enthusiast already knows the ancient RE engine tech is drawn for usable torque at lower RPM & it's still doing that job faithfully for what the current regulations permit. One must not expect at this budget a high torque high revving motor. Twin seems to be different in this regard but that's still out there. While the Bullets fall in the World War persona, the Twins hit the swinging 60s. RE has as much right as any other old world brand(infact it's the oldest running) to resurrect its past & they're doing it at less than half the rate(hopefully) of its nearest competitor.

For goodness sake, they haven't even released any figures yet. All we know is how the Twin sounds & it's sweet. They're claiming a lot on this one including the affordability factor & I'm sure they've covered a lot given the Himalayan blunder. I think they deserve a chance here, albeit their last.

Last edited by tsk1979 : 11th November 2017 at 05:56.
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Old 10th November 2017, 21:46   #101
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Default Re: Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine

I was initially very upbeat about the new twin from RE but I think they have been rather too cautious in their attempt and it could take the edge and excitement out of the whole endeavour.

I really think they should have made a 750 to put up something of a challenge to Triumphs and the other retro modern bikes out there or even taking the wind out of their sales rather than pussyfooting their riders with their 650. But I really hope the best for RE on their new unit. Now that they have a 650 how difficult can it be to upgrade with a few more hundred cc's. Some would say the price is still going for the RE but to me a 750 for the same or near about price would have been a much more stronger challenge by RE.

Last edited by BowMan : 10th November 2017 at 21:50.
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Old 10th November 2017, 22:34   #102
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Default Re: Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine

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Originally Posted by BowMan View Post

I really think they should have made a 750 to put up something of a challenge to Triumphs and the other retro modern bikes out there or even taking the wind out of their sales rather than pussyfooting their riders with their 650.

The Interceptor V2 or Continental V3 could be 750cc or even 900cc+ ...

Just like UC Engines which have 350/500/535 versions.
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Old 11th November 2017, 04:17   #103
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Default Re: Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine

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Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad View Post
Anyone comparing a brand new Honda engine with RE is not exactly in touch with reality. Both have an SOHC configuration? Great!! But that's where the similarities end, at least for me. Anything special you might want to highlight (purely basis specs or technical other details) about this (RE) engine?
Ok...

Obviously the detail remains shrouded at present but at first glance, Enfield are following in the recent footsteps of other manufacturers with the basic architecture of the engine, namely:

-uni cam multivalve design, reducing bulk and mass carried high in the frame. Triumph switched from DOHC to SOHC on the new generation retros in 2016, it's not just Honda doing it.

-parallel twin with 270 degree firing order - cheaper and lighter than a boxer or V twin with the same characteristics as the latter. It was a bit of an oddity when Triumph did it on the Scrambler/America, now every Triumph twin has followed, and the CRF1000L as well, and other models.

- air/oil cooled - initial shots seem to indicate similar approach to the fabulous BMW R nine T.

- I understand the bike has a slipper clutch

It's not leading edge stuff, but early indications are it is well thought out and on point.

In terms of the specs, the bore : stroke ratio is interesting. I expected slightly under-square like the UCE 500, but its 1.16:1, which is moderately over-square and closer to the Triumph twin 1200 (1.21:1) than the 900 (1.05:1). Maybe a coincidence but the old 790cc Bonnie engine had an almost identical stroke length to the new RE. The RE is closer to "square" than the Street 750 engine but with a lower compression ratio. It should feel relaxed but willing, and will probably sound like the old aircooled Scrambler lump - which is a good thing, with an Arrows can that sounded nothing short of biblical.
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Old 11th November 2017, 04:49   #104
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Default Re: Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine

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Originally Posted by SandyX View Post
for goodness sake, they haven't even released any figures yet. All we know is how the Twin sounds & it's sweet. They're claiming a lot on this one including the affordability factor & I'm sure they've covered a lot given the Himalayan blunder. I think they deserve a chance here, albeit their last.
Do you have a link for the sound?

I am a little sad to see so many Indians running these bikes down before they even launch. Those guys remind me so much of Brits who said the same things about Triumph. They mocked the "retro" line up years ago when Triumph started it and was tiny and permanently on the verge of going broke - but it's been a global market changer. Lotus got the same reception in the 90s when they announced they were making a sports car out of bonded aluminium with a 120bhp 4 cylinder, and then people drove an Elise and were absolutely blown away - it was so good, they changed the point of reference from which handling and driver feedback was measured. If either had listened to the negativity from their fellow countrymen they'd have given up and gone home on day 2.

Enfield are not going to change the global bike market or the world with the Interceptor, but it is a stellar leap forward for them, and for the Indian automotive industry as a whole - a multi cylinder bike launched in Europe steals the show? Have the Chinese done that? Would anybody here notice or buy one if they tried? (Er, no)

Further up the thread a BHPian said Harley Davidson had Enfield "beaten to a pulp for heritage", when Royal Enfield is the oldest bike manufacturer in the world with the most engaging story of survival against the odds of any brand I can think of.

Everybody knows the story, of the British gun maker who started building bikes and becoming a success, how the British marques started going out of business one by one due to a disastrous lack of investment and woeful industrial relations, how the Indian military stuck faithfully by the Bullet and so just when it seemed the Enfield story was over, the whole facility was moved thousands of miles to continue production. We know two old guys still pinstripe every tank by hand, and whilst the rest of Asia rides plastic faired 100-200cc machines, every city in India still echoes to the thunder of a big Brit single to this day... Now the story continues with Enfield straddling the country of its birth and its adopted home. Its a totally unique, amazing heritage. You don't buy a bike just "because heritage" but you write your own little chapter in a hell of a lot more epic story riding an Enfield than a Bajaj that's for sure!

Guys, if you can't stand behind Enfield then at least don't stand in the way?

Last edited by tsk1979 : 11th November 2017 at 05:56.
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Old 11th November 2017, 07:23   #105
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Its NOT a brit single. Its an INDIAN single (pun there or what?)

And secondly they are sitting on pots of money given to them by indian customers, they better be putting that money to good use and bringing out relatively trouble free bikes to our market. What overseas markets get is the least of our concerns here in india.

And lastly, it is only in the past 5 years that the indian continent has been blessed with an on rush of japanese and european multi cylinders that blow everything else away. We would like our time with them, please, just like how the brits and americans from developed nations had their time with them, before we decide on a new flavor.

Unfortunately, i dont think enfield will change until and unless they are pushed to the brink of survival. Just like triumph and lotus.

Last edited by Red Liner : 11th November 2017 at 07:25.
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