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Old 6th May 2015, 14:18   #1711
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Default Re: Which Helmet? Tips on buying a good helmet

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Originally Posted by speedy View Post
I have to disagree on this. My HJC, friends Arai, Shoei and AGV all have air vents and we keep them open during our rides. We have not experienced any off the above at any speed.

What the link and what you would be talking off is when someone goes at speeds mentioned by you but does not tuck in but remains upright on the bike.
I did not mean Air-vents in general. I meant the ones that "stick-out" or "Protrude" or to quote from the link "Huge External Vents?". But you can still choose to disagree based on your experience or your mates'.

And yes. I cant be bothered about ducking down while touring. I ride a 390 and thats not a comfortable position to be in all day.
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Old 6th May 2015, 14:30   #1712
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Default Re: Which Helmet? Tips on buying a good helmet

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Originally Posted by nitro.1000bhp View Post
I did not mean Air-vents in general. I meant the ones that "stick-out" or "Protrude" or to quote from the link "Huge External Vents?". But you can still choose to disagree based on your experience or your mates'.

And yes. I cant be bothered about ducking down while touring. I ride a 390 and thats not a comfortable position to be in all day.
We do have the air vent which is not flushed in the helmet and its for the hair part.

One a naked bike its not even possible, but there are touring visors available to cut down the wind blast effect.
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Old 7th May 2015, 12:13   #1713
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Default Re: Which Helmet? Tips on buying a good helmet

Buying a helmet sure ain’t as easy as it used to be. I wanted to combine some of the questions that I battled over the last few weeks with my informal ring side observations of the maturing Indian motorcycling riding gear segment over the last 7 years. It would be great if other forum members could pitch in with their thoughts as well. Am I right? Am I so wrong that I should be laughing at myself? Bouquets. Brickbats. It’s all welcome.


* How much should I spend on my next helmet?
The toughest question of them all. How do you really put a practical price on your own safety? There are riders who can afford only 150cc bikes and yet ensure they have the best riding gear they can afford. There are riders who have much more expensive bikes and yet kit themselves up in open face helmets and entry level gloves. Every person looks at safety and riding gear differently, often with the inherent mindset "Hey, I ride safely, so the chances of me getting into an accident are pretty low". I think many of us here agree that if you spend more money, you are likely to get a better helmet (notice I used the term better not necessarily safer). As per my observations, the two most critical factors that determine a helmet (or for that matter any other) purchase come down to

1. Perceived Value
With helmets, the base reference for value perception comes down to the certification / safety ratings. The options can include fake ISI sticker, ISI, ECE, DOT + ECE, DOT + ECE + SNELL. I don’t want to get into the whole which safety rating is better debate, that’s another story for another time. There are other, oft ignored aspects, such as weight, wind noise, sun visor etc which also contribute to how well a helmet is perceived by potential buyers.


The thing is, beyond a particular price point, almost all the helmets available meet the same / similar safety standards which makes it very difficult to differentiate between them. Which is why in a budget conscious market like India, many riders don’t see the need to spend a lot of money on a helmet when they can get a similar rated one for half it's price instead.


2. Relative Affordability
Relative affordability (I believe this is the right term instead of Cost) is a big factor especially in the case of younger riders. When you are dependent on your parents for your income, you want to ensure that you get a good helmet but at the same time you don’t want to burn a hole in your dad's wallet. For someone who is in the formative years of his / her career, stretching every rupee for what it is worth is top of the priority list. Similarly, someone who is well off and can easily afford a Rs 15,00,000 superbike is similarly likely to put his money down on an expensive Arai lid because it isn’t going to pinch his pocket (relatively speaking that is).


However I have seen that as income levels rise, the willingness to move up to a better helmet doesn’t increase in the same proportion. As the years go by, we all yearn for bigger, nicer, better things in life. Strangely that somehow that doesn’t seem to apply to helmets / riding gear yet.


* Which helmet should I buy?
The MT range of helmets seem to offer maximum bang for buck and for Rs 5,000 you can get a DOT, ECE and 5* SHARP rated helmet in India. So what about the HJC CL17 which retails for Rs 9,500 and comes with DOT and SNELL 2010 rating? Is it twice as safe as the MT Revenge? Is it twice as good as the MT? Or is it better than the MT and is the additional 4,500 rupees worth the differences?


Buying the ever popular AGV K3 that meets DOT and ECE standards but not SNELL 2010 would set you back around Rs 15,000. Could it be thrice as good as the MT? So the similarly priced HJC IS17 or the AGV K3 with snazzy Rossi graphics? A good ARAI lid costs a staggering Rs 50,000. That's a lot of money, so is it really worth it or are you better off buying a lower priced lid and keeping the rest of the money in your bank account? Questions, questions and more questions. Skeptics will say that as you climb up the ladder, the difference in safety is really negligible and all you are paying for is the brand.


For me, I wanted to get something better than the HJC CL17 which is probably me favourite helmet to date. So I looked at the FG range which was for around Rs 18,000. I asked myself, if I can afford this, surely I can afford the RPHA10 series for Rs 30,000. Now if I could spend Rs 30,000 on a helmet, could I spend Rs 50,000 on an Arai? Despite all the research I did, and try as I might, I just couldnt come around to spending more than Rs 35,000 on a helmet. Before you think I was born with a silver spoon in my mouth, let me assure you that I come from a hard working middle class family. Every rupee in my bank account is there because of my hard work, blood, sweat, many many sleepless nights and dare I admit it, a few tears. Every rupee is important to me. As is my own safety. The Nolan N86 retails for $ 300 in the US so the asking price of Rs 20,000 price was fair. Sure, I felt the N86 is a little expensive for what it offers but I didnt have any options at the moment and I sure didnt want to continue riding around in my old MPA AGV.


I did a rough mapping of the helmets available in India, it isnt scientific and I don't have questionnaire responses or email surveys to back it up. As you can see the X axis is not really to scale but you get the point.

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For an Indian customer that puts VFM over most other factors, the perceived value in a helmet seems to drop beyond the Rs 5 – 6K mark. From what I understand (and I could be way off the mark here, dont have any facts to back this up), in more mature markets like the US, for a similarly plotted graph, the point at which perceived value starts dropping is much higher and further away from the meeting of the two axis. To me, this is a function of availability of higher displacement motorcycles over the last few decades in mature markets which in turn has driven the riding gear market.


13 years ago when I started riding, we never had any fancy foreign helmets that met international safety standards. Slowly brands like GPR, GP One, AH, Cross, KBC / Sparx and finally LS2 made their way into the market and improved safety levels. SOL came along a few years ago and a lot of people thought it was great VFM at Rs 5K. It is heartening to see so many different brands entering our market which is slowly maturing and I hope that with more choices, buyers can take more informed decisions about their own safety.


At the end of the day, between spending Rs X on a ‘good’ helmet and spending Rs X + delta Y on a ‘safer’ helmet, try and stretch you budget to get the better one. Just because everyone gets a particular brand doesn’t mean you have to as well. Your life, your family, your kids, your parents, your responsibilities are on your shoulders (quite literally). There is no right or wrong. It’s your life and your safety. Do your research. Think about it. Invest smartly. Ride safe.

Last edited by neil.jericho : 7th May 2015 at 12:15.
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Old 7th May 2015, 12:40   #1714
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Default Re: Which Helmet? Tips on buying a good helmet

Where can I buy Bell helmets in India? Any pointers would be helpful !

There's this website I saw, however looks like it is incomplete; Link: Bell Helmets India

They have a facebook page as well, Bell Moto Helmets India
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Old 7th May 2015, 13:44   #1715
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neil.jericho View Post


* How much should I spend on my next helmet?
Let me share with you my thinking. I started my 2 wheeler riding on activa at age of 16 (with a proper license of course). It was just used for home to classes run and that too only on Sundays after prior permission from dad. I always wore a helmet but I had an ISI one then.

Slowly I started riding more frequently and upgraded my helmet to a better one - studds. Then after getting a Vespa and going out on highways I felt the need for better protection. I got myself an LS2 jacket and proper gloves. Today I have an MT axxis and the studds one is available for a pillion if he/she desires - though I strongly advise to wear it.

My thinking is if you can buy a 2 wheeler for 60k you should be willing to spend at least 6k on a helmet. Yes you do have to budget for gloves,jacket etc. So another 6-7k.

Quote:
1. Perceived Value
With helmets, the base reference for value perception comes down to the certification / safety ratings. The options can include fake ISI sticker, ISI, ECE, DOT + ECE, DOT + ECE + SNELL.
After reading a lot on the internet and asking few of my friends , I came to the conclusion of a minimum safety rating (DOT+ECE) for the next helmet I buy. One can always go higher, but should set a minimum criterion.


The thing is, beyond a particular price point, almost all thehelmets available meet the same / similar safety standards which makes it very difficult to differentiate between them.
Yes.beyond a certain range (highly personal) eg 35k, safety point of view will be same. But if you can spend that much why not ?

Quote:
2. Relative Affordability
Relative affordability (I believe this is the right term instead of Cost) is a big factor especially in the case of younger riders. When you are dependent on your parents for your income, you want to ensure that you get a good helmet but at the same time you don’t want to burn a hole in your dad's wallet. For someone who is in the formative years of his / her career, stretching every rupee for what it is worth is top of the priority list.
This will be a tough choice. Want a fancy phone from dad? Keep it on hold and instead get a good helmet. One must evaluate the sacrifice in order to get something else. My thinking is since you already got a bike, stretching a bit for safety gear by curtailing some other purchases might be acceptable compromise to many.

Quote:
However I have seen that as income levels rise, the willingness to move up to a better helmet doesn’t increase in the same proportion. As the years go by, we all yearn for bigger, nicer, better things in life. Strangely that somehow that doesn’t seem to apply to helmets / riding gear yet.
Unfortunately that is very true. People will spend 1lakh on a bike but will get stingy to spend 10k on safety gear. If we get people to wear helmets(pillions too) this might improve. After all you get new things so why not a nice helmet after using one for 2/3 years?

Quote:
* Which helmet should I buy?
The MT range of helmets seem to offer maximum bang for buck and for Rs 5,000 you can get a DOT, ECE and 5* SHARP rated helmet in India.
I think this a good entry point for buying a helmet. People can start here and then upgrade after 3/4 years after using it. After all Indians will go for value for money.

Quote:
A good ARAI lid costs a staggering Rs 50,000. That's a lot of money, so is it really worth it or are you better off buying a lower priced lid and keeping the rest of the money in your bank account?
I'll say that if you can afford it, buy it. Agreed that as the price increases, safety doesn't increase proportionately, rather I think any helmet beyond 35k will offer same safety. What will be different is the choice of material , paint job, etc.

Quote:
I did a rough mapping of the helmets available in India
Thanks for this. Its a pretty accurate portrayal of the helmet scene in India.

Last edited by blackwasp : 7th May 2015 at 13:46.
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Old 7th May 2015, 13:49   #1716
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Default Re: Which Helmet? Tips on buying a good helmet

Quote:
Originally Posted by //M View Post
Where can I buy Bell helmets in India? Any pointers would be helpful !

There's this website I saw, however looks like it is incomplete; Link: Bell Helmets India

They have a facebook page as well, Bell Moto Helmets India
Arunabh - Bell may not be officially available in India yet. Not seen it anywhere.

The reason I say - I am in the market for a helmet and am on the verge of getting a SHOEI from Sg.

Cheers

#LLB
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Old 7th May 2015, 14:41   #1717
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Default Re: Which Helmet? Tips on buying a good helmet

Quote:
Originally Posted by //M View Post
Where can I buy Bell helmets in India? Any pointers would be helpful !

There's this website I saw, however looks like it is incomplete; Link: Bell Helmets India

They have a facebook page as well, Bell Moto Helmets India
I had purchased a Bell Qualifier full face Helmet from motosport.com sometime ago. I was truly surprised at the pathetic quality of this Helmet. I was aware that it is from their cheapest range of helmets but still the quality of the liner was terrible and the finish was, dare I say, worse than my SOL metalman. Fortunately I had ordered the wrong size and managed to sell it as a box piece for the same price...Phew! But please do stay away from this Lid...I know the price is tempting but its seriously not worth it.
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Old 7th May 2015, 14:43   #1718
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Default Re: Which Helmet? Tips on buying a good helmet

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Originally Posted by //M View Post
Where can I buy Bell helmets in India? Any pointers would be helpful !
Cheers Mate !

http://www.highnoteperformance.com/collections/bell

Adding to the helmet discussion, the usage matters too as @blackwasp has put forward rightly regarding his upgrades.
If you are just zooming around city, a MT suffices your need.
If you are into touring, invest more on a better one. When I say better one, I really do not think they are safer than your 5* rated MT revenge on paper, but the money will get you a helmet with better fit, comfort, noise levels, optics, brand reliability and style. I say safer on paper because, though a helmet like revenge has been certified super safe, the straps are a bit fiddly, the buffeting is pronounced at higher speeds, the visor is not optically perfect, the liners can be better, the vents can be thought out better and you might go deaf during your high speed touring. But you are as safe in it as anything else if it stays on your head after the fall.

Also, fit is very important in the way a helmet ends up protecting. A comfy, read loose, and easily removable helmet on day 1 might not even stay on the head when you slide so a properly snug fitting helmet is imperative, be it a Pista GP or a MT !

Last edited by Sojogator : 7th May 2015 at 14:56.
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Old 7th May 2015, 16:23   #1719
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Default Re: Which Helmet? Tips on buying a good helmet

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Thanks buddy !

I am currently using a SOL Metal Man and find the helmet excellent. So as an upgrade, did a quick research and zeroed on a Bell Vortex Flying Tiger. But as per the link this particular lid is currently unavailable. The Vortex range has Snell certification as well so must be a very good quality lid.

Today I will be on a helmet hunting spree, if I get a MT Revenge/Blade or a HJC CL-17 for my size I would pick it up. Else it will be the Bell once its available.
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Old 7th May 2015, 16:37   #1720
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Default Re: Which Helmet? Tips on buying a good helmet

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Originally Posted by neil.jericho View Post
* How much should I spend on my next helmet?
One must ask themselves this question, "is life more important or money?" you will automatically get the answer.

Quote:
1. Perceived Value
With helmets, the base reference for value perception comes down to the certification / safety ratings. The options can include fake ISI sticker, ISI, ECE, DOT + ECE, DOT + ECE + SNELL.
Again this is subjective but for me I will buy an original helmet from an authorized dealer which has DOT+ECE+SNELL+SHARP certification and rating.

Quote:
2. Relative Affordability
To take the example of myself I started riding with a Vega Boolean lid on my head back in 2010 which costed about Rs. 2300. I had bought a used RE Bullet Standard CI then for about 40K and thought of investing about 10% of the amount on my riding gears. I bought some basic safety riding gloves for about 500 odd bucks and Woodland ankle length tough shoes for about 2K. Coming to more recent ride, I bought a brand new Tbird500 in 2014 which costs roughly about 2 lakhs. Again decided to invest 10% of the total cost of the motorcycle on riding gears. Bought a riding jacket for 8K, riding gloves for 1.2K, riding pants for about 6.5K, using another ankle length Woodland boots costing about 3.2K. Now these are my winter and rainy riding gears. For summer I have another set of riding gears consisting of a mesh riding jacket costing about 5.5K, bionic kneeguards costing about 2.5K. Note that all of my riding gears are from well known quality certified brands and not the fake AXO, FOX, etc. riding contraptions.

Quote:
* Which helmet should I buy?
I have been asking this question to myself as I have used my Vega Boolean for about 5 years now and it's ripe time to change the helmet. I have mentioned my requirements above and will choose a helmet on that basis.

Quote:
I did a rough mapping of the helmets available in India, it isnt scientific and I don't have questionnaire responses or email surveys to back it up. As you can see the X axis is not really to scale but you get the point.
Very good analysis and data capture. It is bang on.

Quote:
There is no right or wrong. It’s your life and your safety. Do your research. Think about it. Invest smartly. Ride safe.
+1 to that from me.

Last edited by navin_v8 : 7th May 2015 at 16:42.
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Old 7th May 2015, 17:03   #1721
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Default Re: Which Helmet? Tips on buying a good helmet

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Originally Posted by //M View Post
Where can I buy Bell helmets in India? Any pointers would be helpful !
[/url]
Try High Note Performance
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Old 7th May 2015, 17:05   #1722
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Default Re: Which Helmet? Tips on buying a good helmet

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Originally Posted by navin_v8 View Post
...

Again this is subjective but for me I will buy an original helmet from an authorized dealer which has DOT+ECE+SNELL+SHARP certification and rating.

...
Glad that you take your safety with as much priority as it should demand.

I have a question for you though.
What would you pick up ?

1. AGV K3 - Dot / ECE / SHARP 3* ~ 20K
2. MT Revenge - Dot / ECE / SHARP 5* ~ 5K

Quote:
Originally Posted by //M View Post
Thanks buddy !

I am currently using a SOL Metal Man and find the helmet excellent. So as an upgrade, did a quick research and zeroed on a Bell Vortex Flying Tiger. But as per the link this particular lid is currently unavailable. The Vortex range has Snell certification as well so must be a very good quality lid.

Today I will be on a helmet hunting spree, if I get a MT Revenge/Blade or a HJC CL-17 for my size I would pick it up. Else it will be the Bell once its available.
No problem mate
Why don't you give them a call and ask them how long before they get the flying tiger (I had ogled it for weeks around last year) ? They are based out of Delhi I think.

Good luck with the purchase and do keep us posted with the one you ended up with.
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Old 7th May 2015, 18:06   #1723
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Default Re: Which Helmet? Tips on buying a good helmet

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Originally Posted by Sojogator View Post
Glad that you take your safety with as much priority as it should demand.
Yes sir I do and am trying to spread this to all my near and dear ones including teambhpian's and general riders.

Quote:
I have a question for you though.
What would you pick up ?

1. AGV K3 - Dot / ECE / SHARP 3* ~ 20K
2. MT Revenge - Dot / ECE / SHARP 5* ~ 5K
1. AGV K3 - Dot / ECE / SHARP 3* ~ 20K (correction AGV K3 costs $169 on Revzilla and about 16.8K on sbkstore.in)

I just don't walk into a shop and buy a helmet mate that too based on just the price. I do a thorough research before buying one. Some of the rudimentary techniques I follow is I ask/read about user experience with respect to riding gears, read voraciously about user and expert reviews on national and international sites, forums, etc., check the rating standards and their definitions for example AGV K3 and MT Revenge do not have SNELL rating. By the way AGV K3 has a 4 star SHARP rating and not 3. Also I just dont look at the price and decide. There are many deciding factors like comfort, fit, visor availability, after sales support, looks and style (not the deciding factor though), additional features like NFC communication, aerodynamic design, and many more.
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Old 7th May 2015, 18:20   #1724
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Default Re: Which Helmet? Tips on buying a good helmet

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin_v8 View Post
...

I just don't walk into a shop and buy a helmet mate that too based on just the price. I do a thorough research before buying one. Some of the rudimentary techniques I follow is I ask/read about user experience with respect to riding gears, read voraciously about user and expert reviews on national and international sites, forums, etc., check the rating standards and their definitions for example AGV K3 and MT Revenge do not have SNELL rating. By the way AGV K3 has a 4 star SHARP rating and not 3. Also I just dont look at the price and decide. There are many deciding factors like comfort, fit, visor availability, after sales support, looks and style (not the deciding factor though), additional features like NFC communication, aerodynamic design, and many more.
Apologies for the inaccurate numbers.

Perfect. I do the same. I look like a mad man when I am doing my research on finding any stuff to buy. An informed buyer is always the best buyer who seldom goes wrong.

So which of the 2 should someone pick and why, considering other factors like fit comfort, style, service, after purchase parts are all easily available ? Should the person go with the 'AGV' brand along with its extra comfort and higher price tag or should one go with the MT as it is safer as per SHARP, though it is not as famous a brand and costs a third of the K3 and will not attract attention with the 'agv' logo ?

Last edited by Sojogator : 7th May 2015 at 18:21.
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Old 7th May 2015, 18:41   #1725
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Apologies for the inaccurate numbers.
No need for apologies mate we are all one big family here and helping each other by sharing our knowledge and experience.

Quote:
Perfect. I do the same. I look like a mad man when I am doing my research on finding any stuff to buy. An informed buyer is always the best buyer who seldom goes wrong.
You should see me while I research, sometimes my computer hangs by the sheer amount of webpages I open at an instance. Very true about informed buyer.

Quote:
So which of the 2 should someone pick and why, considering other factors like fit comfort, style, service, after purchase parts are all easily available ? Should the person go with the 'AGV' brand along with its extra comfort and higher price tag or should one go with the MT as it is safer as per SHARP, though it is not as famous a brand and costs a third of the K3 and will not attract attention with the 'agv' logo ?
I ain't no expert to comment on this mate, someone who has used them might be in a better position than me to advice. I haven't seen these helmets in person forget about using them to share my experience. MT may not be a very well known brand in India but it does have a reputable name in Europe, US and UK. MT is from Spain, a country known to produce worldclass champions across motor racing. Besides this Spain has one of the best roads in the world so there should be something about MT that makes it such a reputed if not popular brand. I will only be able to advice when I wear them back to back and ride to experience the wind resistance, wind noise, fit and finish, overall visibility, weight, etc.

By the way which helmet are you using mate? I read your thread on the Kwacker Z800 and it said MT Revenge. Kindly share your experience.
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