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Old 21st May 2007, 11:48   #31
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All this doesn't excuse the fact that RE is still charging the Indian customer more than 1 lakh for a frame that hasn't changed in 50 years, for suspension that hasn't changed in 50 years, for a basic engine that has only now been worked on a bit.

I guess they feel that if there are enough people out there willing to pay for this, then why not? Also, another thought is that by pricing it high, they build up snob value. If the bullet sold for Rs.45,000, I'm sure it wouldn't sell as many! lol
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Old 21st May 2007, 12:02   #32
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Originally Posted by Ketan View Post
However, RE will still be around as it sustained competition with Harley Davidson in US and Europe for more than half a centure now..
HUH????? Where did THAT come from??? The RE is sold as a Brand New Antique, and that too in very small numbers. How did it 'sustain' competition from the others? It is NOT competition to anyone - nobody else makes antiques.
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Old 21st May 2007, 12:07   #33
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Yeah I guess you are right, its not in direct compition with anyone,, its an antique and going to be around untill its lovers are around.
However, I read some of the reviews and most of the owner experiances, based on that I can say its more than an antique. I might need to experiance it to prove it.
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Old 21st May 2007, 14:43   #34
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Originally Posted by Rtech View Post
All this doesn't excuse the fact that RE is still charging the Indian customer more than 1 lakh for a frame that hasn't changed in 50 years, for suspension that hasn't changed in 50 years, for a basic engine that has only now been worked on a bit.

I guess they feel that if there are enough people out there willing to pay for this, then why not? Also, another thought is that by pricing it high, they build up snob value. If the bullet sold for Rs.45,000, I'm sure it wouldn't sell as many! lol
rtech check out the overseas pricing for this 50 yr old frame suspension engine.
1 bull sold overseas = about 3 to 4 top end indian made "high end performance bike". RE have sales of over 4000 units overseas so they are happy with a small percentage of indian buyers.
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Old 21st May 2007, 14:51   #35
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Yeah I guess you are right, its not in direct compition with anyone,, its an antique and going to be around untill its lovers are around.
However, I read some of the reviews and most of the owner experiances, based on that I can say its more than an antique. I might need to experiance it to prove it.
do experience it for a couple of minutes anything above 4hrs and consequences are its highly infectious. its one bike u dont want to ride hard. easyrider.
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Old 21st May 2007, 15:31   #36
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rtech check out the overseas pricing for this 50 yr old frame suspension engine.
1 bull sold overseas = about 3 to 4 top end indian made "high end performance bike". RE have sales of over 4000 units overseas so they are happy with a small percentage of indian buyers.
I'd rather not! I've mentioned this before on this forum, by selling the bullet in the UK, we're getting our revenge on them!
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Old 21st May 2007, 15:43   #37
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I'd rather not! I've mentioned this before on this forum, by selling the bullet in the UK, we're getting our revenge on them!
Lol RT. What a revenge!! I second you on this thought.
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Old 21st May 2007, 16:16   #38
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Hey Sankar, do you have any idea about the AVL500 performance? I don't think its worth 1+ lakh if its not able to do a 130+ kph cruising speed
Well i don't know about the cruising speed, cruising speed is the speed in which the bike is able to travel without straining the engine, right? The top speed would be in a 140ish range.
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Sankar,

How much would the hydraulic pushrod engine produce at the rear wheel do you think?
Mag, when my friend checked his stock Bullet 500 (cast iron), which makes 22BHp at the crank according to the factory, what he got at the rear wheel was 14BHP!! This was done at the UCAL Mikuni factory.

So the AVL500 which is supposed to make around 25BHP at the crank it'll probably make around 16 or 18BHP at the rear wheel. Can't say without really putting it on the Dyno.

Regarding the BHP figures of the new hydraulic pushrod engine i don't have any idea. It's a prototype and not being sold anywhere now.
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@Sankar,
Are you saying that the production version is completely different? Do you have specs to compare with the one available on that link???
Is it not going to be 18" for the new Machismo 500??
The production version is not completely different the engine will be the same and so is the frame. But the 18" wheels are a one off, customised by it's owner, it won't make it to production. The indicators i had it on my Bullet it's available outside.
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and karizma vs bullet.. ccdi vs coil ignition. cv carb vs dellorto carb, 5 speed super slick gerabox vs agricultural 4 speed. cast iron vs alloy, 2004 vs 1955 and it goes on...
Are you comparing Karizma with AVL? It should be like this

Digital CDi vs TCI, Keihin CV vs Dellorto normal slide, 5speed slick GB vs 5 speed not so slick GB, aluminum vs aluminum, 2004 vs 2000

Performance wise Dellorto is much better than the CV carb provided you jet it correctly.
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Old 21st May 2007, 16:43   #39
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Originally Posted by vabs78 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ketan

I have friends claiming that their RE Machismo can easily beat Karizma (i guess its better than GF170 and Rx135 in top speed) on a straight streatch though its not a racing bike.
Karizma owners, this is your call
The Karizma and the AVL (A350 with normal 4 speed gearbox) was pitted against each other around 2 years back at an RDDreams meet. I was there.

The A350 had a K&N filter and a rejetted carb but stock otherwise. The bike belonged to a friend and the Kari was his bigger brother's. The A350 did 126.X on the speedgun and the Kari did 121.x on the speedgun. Since the speed gun was involved there were no arguments. If the Kari had a K&N and a rejetted carb the speeds would've been much more closer. And if that A350 had that 5 speed box the acceleration would've been better. And possibly a better top end even though the final ratios are the same.

OT:My prepped RX135 5speed beat them both at 132.x kmph it was running stock pipes and stock carb at that time.
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Old 22nd May 2007, 05:50   #40
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Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
cruising speed is the speed in which the bike is able to travel without straining the engine, right?
I don't mind straining the engine a bit as long as it doesn't break down, basically it shouldn't feel out of breath at that speed

my GF170 was very good in this regards, even at 110 kph it used to have enough torque to feel comfortable, it was completely stock, unfortunately kinetic never sold enough bikes to be able to support it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
The top speed would be in a 140ish range.
is there any chance this will be available for test ride? they say its 'made to order'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
Are you comparing Karizma with AVL? It should be like this

Digital CDi vs TCI, Keihin CV vs Dellorto normal slide, 5speed slick GB vs 5 speed not so slick GB, aluminum vs aluminum, 2004 vs 2000

Performance wise Dellorto is much better than the CV carb provided you jet it correctly.
what about chassis?

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Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
OT:My prepped RX135 5speed beat them both at 132.x kmph it was running stock pipes and stock carb at that time.
guess I should stick to my RX135 and go for a 5sp conversion after all
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Old 24th May 2007, 21:58   #41
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Default Why do you buy a Bullet

Hey guys,

Its been a long time since i posted, but here was one which demanded a reply. After months of reading about and talking to Bullet enthusiasts i finally bought an Electra 4s a couple of months back. I have tried to answer some of the questions posed based on this admittedly very limited experience.

Why does somebody buy a Bullet? Does one buy it for its top speed, or the engine specifications or its pickup? I dont think so. Rightfully speaking the Bullet is a vintage bike. And for people who are so keen to point out all the latest electrical/electronic gizmo devices that the Bullet lacks, they are missing the point. This is the 'feature' that Bullet lovers are looking for. They want a bike that is simple to ride, simple to maintain but an undying pleasure that could be passed on for generations. There are also people who are vain about the Bullet's capabilities in getting to Ladakh or Leh without any problems, but i wont get into those arguments. Even a Bajaj M80 can do that feat, but the question is how does the rider feel after he has completed the ride?! The Enfield rider will need a stretch or a fag with a cup of tea and he is ready for life but i am not sure about the M80 rider. Its a question of man and machine - so necessarily we end up with a "that that man - that that machine" scenario. So, what is great for me (Bullet!) need not be great for others and so on.

Also for the gentlemen trashing the price premium, i think this is fair enough for a vintage bike, though i am not convinced by Royal Enfield's strategy to, in some way, modernize the bike. The Bullet commands a vast and fanatic fan following as it is - it is best to not tinker with something that is already working.

For a vintage bike though, it is extremely reliable, a dream to ride, own and preen on. You have got to assess your priorities - if you want a bike that sets great 0-60 timings or if you wish to bust the speed barriers, then this bike will not be pleasurable to you in the least. The Bullet goes where it goes, nonchalantly, in an unhurried, unshakeable manner. It goes easy on the eyes, on the mind and on your body! It is incredibly torquey, stable and honest-to-god strong - strong enough to withstand anything our highways may have to throw at it. Anything from 60-90 kmph is the best speed on the Bullet. That is when you can still enjoy the ride, the machine and the sights.

It is also the bike for the bike-lover - who has time to keep it in spick and span condition and has time for a technological and engineering gem from the last generation. A bike's character has become a much maligned word nowadays. And i saw comments about selling the Bullets in UK for revenge. I doubt that people over there look at it that way guys. They (the enthusiasts) celebrate and adore it.

There are people still wanting to ride a Jawa/Yezdi - just because they love it - forget about the spare parts scene. We are very fortunate to still have spares and service for this venerable giant. Manufacturing quality has never been Royal Enfield's strong suit - i have experienced it on my first day out of the showroom! But, who else has been giving us 350 and 500 cc dollops of fun for all these years?

The Bullet is just not a 'fill it-shut it-forget it' bike. But is that so bad? Think about this as the difference between fast food and real home food. To cook real home food, you have got to persevere, but what you end up with more than makes up for your efforts.

With all the emphasis on maintenance, let me not scare away people who are new to bikes or new to Bullets even. I consider myself mechanically challenged and can still enjoy the Bullet no holds barred and i am sure others can too!

Two things:

1) If there is anything on wheels this side of 20 lakhs that i would want to be in on a rough stretch, it would either be the Opel Corsa or my Bullet. Believe me guys, when i say that the gas filled shockers on the Bullet do their job perfectly. Nothing makes it flutter or lose balance - like the real veteran it has seen it all and done it all. And i look forward to passing this as a gift to the next generation, not sure if you can do the same with a Yamaha or any other Indian bike. And did i mention that the exhaust beat is pure music - you dont really need an iPod on your rides! AVL engines - please excuse.

2) I have always liked the teambhp experience - for its camarederie, wealth of information and most of all, its vibrant members. What would you say if i told you that you can get such an experience even without getting on to the internet? Yes, virtually in every major city, there are Bullet clubs which offer the same benefits to a bike enthusiast. I am myself a part of Madras Bulls and its been huge fun. Lastly have you ever been to the Royal Enfield website at Welcome to Royal Enfield Motorcycles. You will feel that RE still has a lot to teach the Hero Hondas, Yamahas and Bajaj's - in terms of networking their clients. This is what keeps a community alive and the flame burning.

Finally all this is just my personal opinion - so take it with pinches of salt and a glass of water!
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Old 25th May 2007, 01:08   #42
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Default the new bullet info

after reading the thread about the new enfield and the speculation that followed, i recalled, reading quite some time back, an article. heres the link

ROYAL ENFIELD 500 HURRICANER: NEW BIKES

i believe this is a roadtest of the very bike that has been launched. this should put to rest most of the speculation and answer a few more queries as well.

cheers.

Note from the Support Staff: Merged with existing thread.
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Old 25th May 2007, 02:53   #43
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Originally Posted by Rtech View Post
frame that hasn't changed in 50 years, for suspension that hasn't changed in 50 years, for a basic engine that has only now been worked on a bit.
Come to think of it you are actually paying for antique's.. and Antiques are known to be expensive.

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by selling the bullet in the UK, we're getting our revenge on them!


Godfather
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Old 25th May 2007, 13:26   #44
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Originally Posted by skyline_r34 View Post
after reading the thread about the new enfield and the speculation that followed, i recalled, reading quite some time back, an article. heres the link

ROYAL ENFIELD 500 HURRICANER: NEW BIKES

i believe this is a roadtest of the very bike that has been launched. this should put to rest most of the speculation and answer a few more queries as well.

cheers.

Note from the Support Staff: Merged with existing thread.
Yeah,
Its almost the same bike,
Few differences are..
  • Its a 5-Speed gearbox but not the right foot, its left foot like any other AVL engine
  • I read the specs that Torque is 4kgm and not 4.3kgm
  • I guess it shoud be 23bhp and not the 25bhp (need to verify on that)
  • They talk about 18 inches rims, but its not,, its still 19 inches
  • Its exactly same as the New Machismo 350 with those additional chrome stuff and all minor modifications except it has got 500cc Engine and now its TCI too
I just got it yesterday,, still exploring
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Old 25th May 2007, 15:09   #45
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@Ketan- Read all Ur posts. Totally agree with what U say.
U Rock, dude. Ride on.
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