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Old 15th October 2014, 11:25   #3016
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Default Re: The Gearless Scooter Thread

Dear Zulfi, can you elaborate a little as to how you were able to make this determination. So that I can pass on the thoughts and ideas to him.
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Old 15th October 2014, 11:49   #3017
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Default Re: The Gearless Scooter Thread

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Originally Posted by hemanth.das View Post
Need your help friends. Kindly help us decide and narrow down on the right scooter.
I would short-list the following 5:

1. Dio- because it is relatively lightweight and since he is a motorbike rider, height shouldn't be a problem
2. Activa i-Again since it is lightweight

Both the above would be rejected I guess since he is not keen on the Hondas

3. Jupiter-Its mainly a lightweight Wego which will make it easier to put it on and take it off the stand
4. New Scooty Zest 110-Looks good, I'm yet to ride it

But I have my own doubts about TVS vehicles' long term durability. Some may not agree with me on this.

5. Yamaha Ray/Ray Z - My colleague has got it and he gives a good feedback about it.

Again I feel that its a new vehicle and it would be early to talk about its longterm durability

I own a Vespa and it meets most of your conditions but its turning radius is a higher that the others I felt (I don't know the value but it seems to be higher).
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Old 15th October 2014, 11:57   #3018
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Default Re: The Gearless Scooter Thread

Some suggestions below

He is looking for a scooter that is:
Well balanced - Wego is the best in terms of Balance, it has an all metal body. Access is good too, but a little bulky.
Has good to decent fuel efficiency - All scooters provide between 35-45kmpl on an average. Cannot expect a bike like mileage from scooters.
Reliable, and longer term maintenance should be hassle free - TVS should win hands down, as there are numerous service centers. Suzuki is a farce, hardly any in Bangalore and Honda though has many, thy are always crowded.
Easy to maintain - Depends upon how the scooter is treated. Almost all the scooters are relatively reliable, but as with all mechanicals, there may be some lemons.
Easy to maneuver in traffic and place on and off the stand. - Again, this depends on the user, scooters are more comfortable to ride at lower speeds than bikes
Ride and comfort is top priority. -
User dependent.

Ps - I own an access.

Last edited by dass : 15th October 2014 at 11:59.
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Old 15th October 2014, 12:02   #3019
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Default Re: The Gearless Scooter Thread

Thank you Hemanth

Dass he is 5 feet 8 inches. I did mention it in the query post. Thanks for your inputs.

Last edited by hemanth.das : 15th October 2014 at 12:06.
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Old 15th October 2014, 19:11   #3020
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Default Re: The Gearless Scooter Thread

After a lot of deliberation, have finally decided on buying the TVS Jupiter. Took a test ride today and was fairly satisfied. The only not-so-great thing was the pick up (compared to say the Yamaha Alpha or the Kinetic Flyte) but not a big deal since my usage will typically be for weekend runs to get groceries or local errands.

Primary reasons for deciding on the TVS Jupiter
- 12 inch wheels
- Dealer present in my neighborhood (within walking distance)
- Good reviews overall.
- Neutral to Positive looks (i dislike the Wego)
- Good footboard space
- Tubeless tyres.
- Can kick start without needing to put on center stand. Big deal for me.
- NO WAITING PERIOD (yeah, you read it correctly, even for the matte gray version).
- Dealership experience when i approached for a test drive was very positive, contrary to what I have read online.


Things that worry me slightly
- Brakes lacked bite (in comparison to the combi-brakes offered on some other scooters). During my test ride I braked hard twice and it stopped in a straight line without any skidding.
- Battery is not Maintenance Free. Is this a big deal? I thought MF batteries were standard.
- Seating height seems slightly high, not an issue for me, but need to check for pillion.
- The external fuel fill is useless since it still needs the key to be removed unlike the access where I believe all controls are in a single place.


I have been given a quote of Rs 58579 on road (inclusive of basic accessories) + 2725 for other accessories (black guards all through, floor mat, seat cover, grip covers and teflon coating) + 685 for extended warranty.

Price is on the higher side since quotes from other dealers in BLR are around 800-1000 Rs lower. Hopefully will negotiate with them to match on the pricing front. There is some scratch card scheme, but nothing besides that.

Is there a PDI checklist for bikes here?

Last edited by sachinayak : 15th October 2014 at 19:13.
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Old 16th October 2014, 12:11   #3021
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Default Re: The Gearless Scooter Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by hemanth.das View Post
.
He is about 65 years old, 5 ft 8 inches tall. Average build. He rides about 35~40 KM a day.
......
Budget is not a concern here for the right bike. Also he is not looking for anything fancy like the Vespa collection, unless it meets all the above criteria.
Location Bangalore.
From the above criteria, the best option is the Vespa which has a good mileage - quite important for someone coming from a Splendor and riding 40 KM every day.

I believe the service intervals are quite long for the Vespa. For other scooters, you need to visit the service center after every 2 -2.5 months - which is a pain.

Vespa owners here can confirm on the service intervals.

@sachinnayak: MF battery can last around 3 years if used carefully. So, this translates to about Rs. 1 per day in terms of cost.

Last edited by S_U_N : 16th October 2014 at 12:14.
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Old 16th October 2014, 22:27   #3022
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Default Re: The Gearless Scooter Thread

Do we get tubeless tyres for TVS Wego size? If yes, what is the brand? Thanks!
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Old 16th October 2014, 23:54   #3023
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Originally Posted by shipnil View Post
Do we get tubeless tyres for TVS Wego size? If yes, what is the brand? Thanks!
If i am not wrong, Wego & Jupiter have similar wheel/tyre sizes. Since Jupiter comes factory fit with tubeless tyres, it should be possible to use the same on the Wego too.
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Old 19th October 2014, 14:57   #3024
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shipnil View Post
Do we get tubeless tyres for TVS Wego size? If yes, what is the brand? Thanks!
New TVS wego, ie, the one with the digital speedo and black wheels come with tubeless tyres.

If yours is a old one then you can fit tubeless tyres into it. But you will have to get the L shaped tubeless neck. I don't know if TVS has it as spare part. Next you have to check if the hole size in the rim is same for tube and tubeless.

If above two are fine then go for MRF zapper. They are tubeless and come in 12 inch size. The stock TVS tyres are not good enough.
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Old 19th October 2014, 21:50   #3025
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Default Re: The Gearless Scooter Thread

Uh, a troubleshooting question for you guys: Our Suzuki Access 125 is having a strange problem. It starts well and rides just fine but when rolling to a stop, once you release the throttle the engine speed goes down and then goes up as it goes into "idle".

So once a while during this engine speed "valley", the scooter just dies and stalls. If I restart it, it will start just fine and run alright.

What gives?
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Old 19th October 2014, 22:08   #3026
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Default Re: The Gearless Scooter Thread

Finally got my Vespa s after a very long wait. It was well worth it!


Quote:
Originally Posted by hellmet View Post
Uh, a troubleshooting question for you guys: Our Suzuki Access 125 is having a strange problem. It starts well and rides just fine but when rolling to a stop, once you release the throttle the engine speed goes down and then goes up as it goes into "idle".

So once a while during this engine speed "valley", the scooter just dies and stalls. If I restart it, it will start just fine and run alright.

What gives?
It's the rate at which your engine idles. It must be very low and that's why your engine must be turning off. Just go to showroom or service center and tell them to increase idling and they'll do it for you.
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Last edited by omar : 19th October 2014 at 22:18. Reason: Bought a new scooter :D
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Old 19th October 2014, 22:20   #3027
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Default Re: The Gearless Scooter Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellmet View Post
Uh, a troubleshooting question for you guys: Our Suzuki Access 125 is having a strange problem. It starts well and rides just fine but when rolling to a stop, once you release the throttle the engine speed goes down and then goes up as it goes into "idle".

So once a while during this engine speed "valley", the scooter just dies and stalls. If I restart it, it will start just fine and run alright.
?
Have you observed if the clutch is disengaged or not(disengaged in scoot equal to pressing clutch in car) when this happens?

In gearless scooters, there is a centrifugal clutch that engages once you accelarate and disengage once vehicle speed falls below a certain speed. In my dio, the clutch disengages as the vehicle drops below ~10kmph. Until then, even after letting go of accelerator, the engine revvs are high and it falls to idle only after becoming slower than 10kmph.

In your case, either

1. The clutch is disengaging late, ie at a slower speed or even standstill which is naturally causing the engine to stall just like the car, or
2. There's a problem with the tuning of carb which is causing the engine to stall after deceleration.

Do get the idle and AFR checked. Then if the problem still persists, consider getting the clutch shoes cleaned and overhauled.

By the way, can someone tell me the technical way to set AFR such that it remains within the ideal ratio and not too lean or rich?

I don't have a problem with the scooter as such but every time I read about this, people have posted methods which are crude, ie only by observation or experience, engine speed etc. But is there a professional way by using any tool to measure the actual AFR? I get it serviced at Bosch, but they have a tachometer only which they use to set the idle speed. I am worried that in the pretext of showing a rise in FE after service, they're setting it too lean.
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Old 20th October 2014, 10:17   #3028
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Default Re: The Gearless Scooter Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by omar View Post

It's the rate at which your engine idles. It must be very low and that's why your engine must be turning off. Just go to showroom or service center and tell them to increase idling and they'll do it for you.
Hi Omar, it idles just fine, it's the journey to idle that kills the engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
Have you observed if the clutch is disengaged or not(disengaged in scoot equal to pressing clutch in car) when this happens?

In gearless scooters, there is a centrifugal clutch that engages once you accelarate and disengage once vehicle speed falls below a certain speed. In my dio, the clutch disengages as the vehicle drops below ~10kmph. Until then, even after letting go of accelerator, the engine revvs are high and it falls to idle only after becoming slower than 10kmph.

In your case, either

1. The clutch is disengaging late, ie at a slower speed or even standstill which is naturally causing the engine to stall just like the car, or
2. There's a problem with the tuning of carb which is causing the engine to stall after deceleration.

Do get the idle and AFR checked. Then if the problem still persists, consider getting the clutch shoes cleaned and overhauled.
I think what you say makes great sense. As you correctly pointed out, the engine seems to die just as it dis-engages the clutch and goes into idle. So, yea it's probably the clutch. Is the clutch play on a CVT scooter adjustable by hand like on a motorcycle (given that there's no real clutch lever I'm not sure) ? Or would I have to give it to a mechanic and have the engine opened? I'd love to be able to do it myself if that's possible! Thanks!!
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Old 20th October 2014, 10:33   #3029
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Default Re: The Gearless Scooter Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellmet View Post
Hi Omar, it idles just fine, it's the journey to idle that kills the engine.



I think what you say makes great sense. As you correctly pointed out, the engine seems to die just as it dis-engages the clutch and goes into idle. So, yea it's probably the clutch. Is the clutch play on a CVT scooter adjustable by hand like on a motorcycle (given that there's no real clutch lever I'm not sure) ? Or would I have to give it to a mechanic and have the engine opened? I'd love to be able to do it myself if that's possible! Thanks!!

They open the transmission case for that. Last time during service, they cleaned the shoes and reset the whole assembly. That made the clutch engage only after revving quite a bit. Told them about this and they did something which made the clutch engage with a light throttle input. Not sure if we can do it on our own.
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Old 20th October 2014, 16:12   #3030
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Default Re: The Gearless Scooter Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellmet View Post
Uh, a troubleshooting question for you guys: Our Suzuki Access 125 is having a strange problem. It starts well and rides just fine but when rolling to a stop, once you release the throttle the engine speed goes down and then goes up as it goes into "idle".

So once a while during this engine speed "valley", the scooter just dies and stalls. If I restart it, it will start just fine and run alright.

What gives?
I don't have that problem with Access, but I do have it with our Maruti Zen.
The workaround for me is to change the gears very quickly, else the engine stalls.
I suspect this is due to the carburetor.

Earlier my Access would get into neutral soon after releasing the throttle- while rolling off to a signal etc. For quite a few months, I have seen that it take a bit longer for it to shift to neutral. I don't know why this has happened.
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