Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > Motorbikes


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 1st April 2010, 20:45   #91
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,534
Thanked: 984 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by motorpsycho View Post
My Classmates used to laugh at me when I used to wear helmet to college even when it was no enforced and I was the only guy who used to wear it and many a times made jokes about it. All I told them was I love to ride and in case I crash, I want to be able to walk away from it and ride again. I have forced many of my friends to wear a helmet.

Many have argued that to wear or not to wear is ones personal choice and know the risks thus it must not be enforced , I have no counter argument to convince them.
While it was not my classmates but colleagues, but they too used to ridicule me when i used to ride to work in a helmet and jacket. The helmet was not compulsory at that time but I ensured i was always geared up when taking my bike out though it was only a Samurai which was not nearly as powerful as the RX or Shogun of those days.

But when i had a fall near Richmond road, it was the helmet that saved me as my head hit the road first and with fairly high impact and i walked away with just a wound to my shoulder and some scratches as i was dragged some distance on the road.

So a helmet will definitely save lives!!
abhinav.s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd April 2010, 15:52   #92
Senior - BHPian
 
Raccoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Poona
Posts: 1,832
Thanked: 105 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbraj View Post
Every job/role has certain pre-requisites. Take a welder for example. He is expected to wear certain gear, lack of which is hazardous. Can the job be done without wearing the gear? Yes. Is it recommended? No. Why is there a rule? To enforce discipline. Why to enforce discipline? So that the number of accidents are reduced.

There are numerous examples like construction workers, astronauts etc.

I guess we are going from discussion on accidents & pictures.
Those who love "discipline" are free to enforce it on themselves... not on others. At least not when it does not affect them directly.

I do not disagree one bit that helmets should be worn. But freedom is more important than any head. I want to be free to be able to decide whether to wear a helmet or not. And I feel anybody who tells me otherwise is making a gross encroachment on my freedom and private space.

People can be made aware of the advantages of wearing one... not have one thrust on them. When the latter happens, you will continue to have cases like the one mentioned by someone above, where someone goes and buys a simple hard hat for 100 bucks, just for formalities sake. Hard hats aside, many/most of the helmets in the market would not meet international safety norms. But who cares, as long as the cop on the street does not get an excuse to fine you or enjoy a bribe for himself?

All this will continue... unless people do something out of understanding rather than a robotic compliance of some law/discipline.

In fact I would propose that people who subscribe to the line of thought I have lambasted are way more dangerous than than probable catastrophic events they presume to save you from; and in whose name they want to impose their discipline on others.
Raccoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd April 2010, 16:31   #93
Team-BHP Support
 
bblost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 9,650
Thanked: 6,663 Times
Default

Racoon.

Assume I meet with an accident. Circumstance are such that no person is directly at fault. But the person I hit is not wearing a helmet. That person dies due to head injuries.

Will I not be held totally liable.
Because the other person is not around for me to defend myself and share the blame with.

If I am driving a car and following the stupid, bigger vehicle at fault theory.
Will I not end up paying for someone else's mistake.

Since as a co-user of the road, I follow safe driving.
Am I wrong in expecting others take adequate protection, so that I don't end up killing them because of no reason other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
bblost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd April 2010, 16:45   #94
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 122
Thanked: Once
Default

Rightly said bblost.

@raccoon, I dont understand your theory of freedom is more important than any head. Government doesnt impose rules blindly(atleast in this case). You can have a look at the accident statistics of any city before implementing helmet rule and after its implementation. Person dying due to head injuries is reduced.

Most of us are aware of the safety that helmet provides, but how many of us follow it. Just being aware of this doesnt make sense. It has to be implemented.

Better being safe wearing a helmet than being sorry for not wearing it.
_abhishek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd April 2010, 17:08   #95
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Sheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Purnea(Bihar)
Posts: 5,207
Thanked: 4,829 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raccoon View Post
But freedom is more important than any head.
some similar thoughts i have,
1. Govt. should free us to produce as many babies as we can, it is our freedom

2. We should ****/dump garbage where we want to, it is our freedom

3. I should have a gun and shoot any and which i like at my whim and fancy, it is my freedom after all



wish i could add more
Sheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd April 2010, 17:14   #96
Senior - BHPian
 
Raccoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Poona
Posts: 1,832
Thanked: 105 Times
Default

While your reasons are not invalid (nor are those given by others above), I still disagree. Personally, I'm not ready to let go of my freedom to exercise my choice of wearing or not wearing one. Thats the simple point.

Quote:
Most of us are aware of the safety that helmet provides, but how many of us follow it. Just being aware of this doesnt make sense. It has to be implemented.
Maybe, just maybe, I am aware of it. Maybe thats why I wear one 95% of the time. Maybe someone who doesn't has not really understood. Maybe he has just listened to the good advice; but not understood it. But that is his choice. I do not claim to know better and wouldn't want to nail one on his skull.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
some similar thoughts i have,
1. Govt. should free us to produce as many babies as we can, it is our freedom

2. We should ****/dump garbage where we want to, it is our freedom

3. I should have a gun and shoot any and which i like at my whim and fancy, it is my freedom after all



wish i could add more
I knew this was coming. Thats why I clearly added "At least not when it does not affect them directly" in my post. I would not be encroaching on anybody's freedom directly, by not wearing a helmet.

If I pump a bullet into you, I would be encroaching on a tad more than your freedom and personal space. Your examples of are quite unrelated to this discussion for obvious reasons.

Last edited by bblost : 2nd April 2010 at 17:23. Reason: back 2 back post. Please use edit post if posting within 20 mins. Thanks.
Raccoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd April 2010, 17:29   #97
Team-BHP Support
 
bblost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 9,650
Thanked: 6,663 Times
Default

Its a traffic signal.
Biker brakes hard and fast.
I tap the rear of the bike with my car.

Biker not able to control, slips and falls.
Hits head on pavement. Skull cracks open. Dies.

Is he not directly responsible for my situation.
I hit his bike at less than 10 kmph. Something that happens everyday at every signal.
If he was wearing a helmet, nothing would have happened to him.

But without a helmet, falling on a stone, he kills himself.
But who will live with the blame of having killed him.

Did he not end up


EDIT:
Why I feel so strongly.
I once saw an old guy die in pretty much the same way.
Light tap, loss of control, pavement and his brains on the road.
bblost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd April 2010, 17:41   #98
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Sheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Purnea(Bihar)
Posts: 5,207
Thanked: 4,829 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raccoon View Post
I knew this was coming.
Classic, isn't it?

Quote:
Thats why I clearly added "At least not when it does not affect them directly" in my post. I would not be encroaching on anybody's freedom directly, by not wearing a helmet.

If I pump a bullet into you, I would be encroaching on a tad more than your freedom and personal space. Your examples of are quite unrelated to this discussion for obvious reasons.
What about no.1 and no.2?anyways forget it,

and yes suppose the person who is having his share of freedom and dies smelling taking in fresh air, have you spared a thought about his near and dear ones?wouldn't his family's freedom/happiness be lost at his so called freedom?
now anyone who is living in this world has to have a family, God can't simply dump him/her, so if you aren't caring about others, may i label you(yes whoever isn't wearing a helmet) Selfish? freedom, Bah!

^^I seriously pity people who go at lengths/pains to prove that their wrong doing is right by citing Freedom/Rights and more Blah
Sheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd April 2010, 19:16   #99
Senior - BHPian
 
Raccoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Poona
Posts: 1,832
Thanked: 105 Times
Default

Why not force all bikers to wear a full body armor, like a medieval knight in shining armor? Then your chances of hurting him are further reduced and you can lead a relatively guilt-free life.
Raccoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd April 2010, 21:15   #100
Senior - BHPian
 
sbraj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: B L R / T V M
Posts: 1,071
Thanked: 4 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raccoon View Post
Why not force all bikers to wear a full body armor, like a medieval knight in shining armor?
I think that is a possibility if lots of bikers die in accidents. Or the government may entirely ban bikes. I remember a senior colleague from US visiting India and calling bikes here "suicide machines".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raccoon View Post
Then your chances of hurting him are further reduced and you can lead a relatively guilt-free life.
Death is ir-reversible, and hence the concern of not being involved in one.

Freedom is one of the highest virtues. But we see everyday that freedom is being compromised on roads. Some examples below:
- I am not allowed to ride on the right side. Why can't all riders be understanding enough and not come in another's way?
- Sometimes I have to drive 2-3 KMs further for a U turn. Why am I not allowed to take a U turn, then and there?

Isn't the whole concept of society and religion against freedom? Bringing order into chaos? Institutionalizing and bringing in discipline? Had it not been for discipline, would there be civilization?
sbraj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd April 2010, 21:40   #101
Team-BHP Support
 
bblost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 9,650
Thanked: 6,663 Times
Default

Racoon, it would be easy for me argue and debate with someone who does not understand the importance of a helmet.
Since that is not the case with you, its tough.

You obviously understand the life saving ability of a helmet.

But fail to understand the fact that others apart the rider have a stake in his being alive.
And I don't mean his friends and family.

In the short view, its the poor bus driver who was unable to stop his old bus in time.
In the long view, its the social costs of one less earning productive member.
bblost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd April 2010, 02:52   #102
Senior - BHPian
 
Raccoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Poona
Posts: 1,832
Thanked: 105 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbraj View Post
I think that is a possibility if lots of bikers die in accidents. Or the government may entirely ban bikes. I remember a senior colleague from US visiting India and calling bikes here "suicide machines".


Death is ir-reversible, and hence the concern of not being involved in one.
Irrevesible or reversible, you can be very sure it is coming... And when it is ment to come, you can be pretty sure it won't turn back if it sees a helmet.

Quote:
Freedom is one of the highest virtues. But we see everyday that freedom is being compromised on roads. Some examples below:
- I am not allowed to ride on the right side. Why can't all riders be understanding enough and not come in another's way?
- Sometimes I have to drive 2-3 KMs further for a U turn. Why am I not allowed to take a U turn, then and there?

Isn't the whole concept of society and religion against freedom? Bringing order into chaos? Institutionalizing and bringing in discipline? Had it not been for discipline, would there be civilization?
Won't dwell on this further. But I can see where your arguments are coming from... from certain beliefs and concepts that are hallowed to you. I'm afraid I'm unable to share them with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bblost View Post
Racoon, it would be easy for me argue and debate with someone who does not understand the importance of a helmet.
Since that is not the case with you, its tough.

You obviously understand the life saving ability of a helmet.

But fail to understand the fact that others apart the rider have a stake in his being alive.
And I don't mean his friends and family.

In the short view, its the poor bus driver who was unable to stop his old bus in time.
In the long view, its the social costs of one less earning productive member.
I am well aware that others will have that stake. But I have a stake in my freedom. And thats what I'll vote for.
Raccoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th April 2010, 16:45   #103
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Sheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Purnea(Bihar)
Posts: 5,207
Thanked: 4,829 Times
Default

To those who may be tempted by comments above need to search wiki and see how it defines an accident,
Accident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
make a mental note(identifiable, unexpected, unusual) of it and then respond

It is an unforeseen/unfortunate incident which can happen to anyone/anyplace

@Raccoon--the above statement isn't directed at you, everyone is entitled to his/her life and its FREEDOM so please...
Sheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th April 2010, 17:49   #104
BHPian
 
Rollin' Thunda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: now Hyderabad
Posts: 288
Thanked: 56 Times
Default

In the place where I teach, two students went on a joy-ride on GT road at 3 AM last Friday night. They seem to have hit a speed-breaker just ahead of a small bridge. The rider lost control and fell straight down splitting his skull on the road, probably dying instantly. The pillion rider was more fortunate, he just fractured his jaw in several places, and is still in hospital.

If both had been wearing full-face helmets, they probably would have gotten up, brushed themselves off, and ridden back to their hostel.

The boy who died was the only child of his parents.

At the condolence meeting held the next day, many of his friends, 20-23 year-old men, were weeping uncontrollably.

With freedom comes responsibility. Don't wear a helmet because you have to, wear it because you want to --- for all of those who are riding with you even when you are going solo on your bike.

Last edited by Rollin' Thunda : 7th April 2010 at 17:52.
Rollin' Thunda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th April 2010, 20:29   #105
BHPian
 
RT13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 71
Thanked: 4 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raccoon View Post
Irrevesible or reversible, you can be very sure it is coming... And when it is ment to come, you can be pretty sure it won't turn back if it sees a helmet.



Won't dwell on this further. But I can see where your arguments are coming from... from certain beliefs and concepts that are hallowed to you. I'm afraid I'm unable to share them with you.



I am well aware that others will have that stake. But I have a stake in my freedom. And thats what I'll vote for.
@ Raccoon,

I'm a huge advocate of freedom of choice.

However, I think you're more than slightly mistaken here when you say its only your freedom thats affected. Bear with me a second and read on to see why.

If you were shooting yourself in the head, I have no issues at all. Its your right to kill yourself in my opinion (much as many religious fanatics might scream about the sin of suicide and suchlike). However, if there's somebody standing next to you and the bullet kills him too, then your freedom has certainly impinged upon someone else's, to disastrous effect.

If I were to apply this logic to your helmet theory it still holds good.

If you were to fall off a bike and injure yourself or die to no consequence to anyone else, thats fine. However, this is extremely unlikely to be the case and very very rare in fact. Here are the possible ways in which you will be affecting people other than yourself
  1. In case of an accident involving another vehicle(s) the seriousness of your injury will determine the extent of his prosecution. Regardless of whose fault it is, if you die from a head injury, there are certainly going to be far more serious repercussions to the others involved in an accident than if you were to live. This is much worse when it is the fault of the person who isn't wearing the helmet as the innocent person is targeted anyway.
  2. The extent of injures will certainly determine how much time and effort is spent trying to get you back into shape. That puts an additional burden on an already stretched healthcare system. A person who has been injured due to lack of a helmet could actually occupy an ambulance that would otherwise have gone to pick up somebody with a heart-attack or some other less-avoidable emergency (I say 'less avoidable' purely to avoid a silly debate on how all sorts of ailments could be avoided by exercise and so on). Additionally, the time a doc would spend on the person could be spent on somebody with a less avoidable injury.
  3. The pain caused by the loss of a life is borne by the people who are left behind - family, friends and so on. Please don't compare this to suicide because that is actually a considered action (however badly considered). I don't think anybody actually plans on dying due to a head injury caused in an accident.
  4. An incident such as this also places an additional burden on an already stretched police force and judicial system as they have to dedicate time and money (PUBLIC money) to someone who really needn't have landed up in that position. Time and money that could have gone towards the more pressing problems in this country - corruption, crime and so on.
I'll end here, but I hope you get the gist of what I'm saying. I completely defend your right to your freedom as long as it is merely you paying the price of your action. Unfortunately in this case it is very very very seldom that nobody other than the person not wearing a helmet is affected.

Cheers

Rahul
RT13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Which Helmet? Tips on buying a good helmet Su-47 Motorbikes 2509 13th December 2017 14:27
Wearing HELMET WHILE U RIDE Surprise Motorbikes 53 8th April 2007 23:54
Stubborn Resistance to the New Helmet Law !! normally_crazy Motorbikes 116 29th April 2006 13:42
Wear HELMET OR HELL MET Surprise Street Experiences 0 8th August 2005 12:00
My new ZEUS helmet, FOX gloves Hatari Shifting gears 11 5th February 2005 17:54


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 15:16.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks