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Old 28th January 2008, 20:34   #16
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Originally Posted by ananthkamath View Post
Allow me.

First off, to set the record straight, the Centra is the only TVS vehicle known to have had serious engine problems, that too the very first batch. It was not a design problem at all. It was an assembly issue that was immediately rectified when the root cause got identified. Customers were given free replacement crankshafts, some without their knowledge even. I know because I worked in the plant which also made Centra crankshafts. That line ran 24/7 to make replacement cranks for the bikes already on the road, plus those being currently produced. To my knowledge every single one has been replaced, and there were no subsequently reported failures. What killed the bike was the bad name it got from that first batch.

Yes the victor had alignment and chain issues. I know nothing of any camshaft or engine failures in the Victor. Never heard of such a thing in the 1 and half years I was with the company.

All manufacturers have had teething problems with their products when first launched. Nobody's a saint. Bajaj had major issues with the CT100 when it came out. I know Pulsars with worn-out cylinder bores within 25,000 km of normal running. The first pulsars had clutch issues.

When HH came out with the CBZ (their first all-new engine family since the CD100), they had issues with people reporting poor mileage. Turned out to be poor compression. Why? Burnt valve seats.

I wont even mention Kinetic here for obvious reasons.

Are you saying TVS doesn't use the proper material for their cranks and cams? That's bullshiite. The exact same parts take abuse in their race engines that you can't even imagine. They are designed and manufactured using the exact same tools used by other manufacturers. They are thrashed for 500 hours at full load full speed on the dyno until something breaks (and guess what, that something is neither the camshaft nor the crank). In other words, they are engineered, but you might not be aware of such a thing because you talk about forged camshafts and heat-treated bearings (if a bearing isnt heat-treated you will have a spectacular meltdown within seconds of starting the engine, and a forged camshaft? Let me have some of whatever you're smoking man).

Obviously you know nothing of the technicalities involved nor are you in a position to comment on materials, manufacturing techniques, or engineering. So I suggest you refrain from doing so on a public forum and thus making a fool out of yourself.

Hmm, I never worked for any company .. nor do i support any company .

With regard to the heat treatment for bearings , i would ask you to again go through my post ,and the context of what was being implied at . I am sorry for the camshaft forging part . I was multi tasking ,and probably that interrupted my thought flow , Instead of typing connecting rod .I have owned a fiero f2 and a victor and I did notice that both the camshaft bearings died . the fiero ones got fried at 10000 kms approx and the victor 125glx camshaft got fried at 12,000 .

Incase ,if you are sure the company changed the crankshafts for the centras , I could help my friend out ,who bought 4 centras for his business and all the 4 are gathering dust .

Lastly TVS get their design done from AVL ..this is just an input

Anyways , this is my personal opinion and I am sure I would want to get into an argument to prove my point .
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Old 28th January 2008, 22:33   #17
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Originally Posted by greatmana2000 View Post
.

Lastly TVS get their design done from AVL ..this is just an input

Anyways , this is my personal opinion and I am sure I would want to get into an argument to prove my point .
Me neither. I was merely trying to get the facts straight. I don't work for TVS anymore nor am I supporting them in any manner.

And yeah, it is impossible to have a personal opinion on facts.

Thirdly, I want to half ignore your other blanket statement that TVS gets their design done from AVL. Pure bullshiite. AVL may be a consultant, but in no way does all of their design input come from AVL.

Get your facts straight before posting them on a public forum.
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Old 28th January 2008, 23:14   #18
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Originally Posted by ananthkamath View Post
Me neither. I was merely trying to get the facts straight. I don't work for TVS anymore nor am I supporting them in any manner.

And yeah, it is impossible to have a personal opinion on facts.

Thirdly, I want to half ignore your other blanket statement that TVS gets their design done from AVL. Pure bullshiite. AVL may be a consultant, but in no way does all of their design input come from AVL.

Get your facts straight before posting them on a public forum.
well, May be you never had the oppurtunity to see any of the TVS ads ,proudly claiming that the design was from AVL . Atleast I remeber that they had placed ads for victor stating that the engine was designed and developed for tvs by AVL .

Even the recent flame engine developement was contributed by AVL ,may be fully or partially .

Why dont you for a change get your facts straight and not come up with "bull****e" before ......u actually post ?
finally ,some facts are better kept when they are personal at the risk of just getting flamed

Last edited by greatmana2000 : 28th January 2008 at 23:16.
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Old 29th January 2008, 01:12   #19
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finally ,some facts are better kept when they are personal at the risk of just getting flamed
suit yourself dude. Ignorance is bliss. I'm outta here.
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Old 29th January 2008, 07:47   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ananthkamath View Post
All manufacturers have had teething problems with their products when first launched. Nobody's a saint. Bajaj had major issues with the CT100 when it came out. I know Pulsars with worn-out cylinder bores within 25,000 km of normal running. The first pulsars had clutch issues.

When HH came out with the CBZ (their first all-new engine family since the CD100), they had issues with people reporting poor mileage. Turned out to be poor compression. Why? Burnt valve seats.
That is terrible.

I think the country should have complete testing facilities
Manufacturers should test the vehicles for at least two years in extreme conditions and then bring them to sale.
Still the question, how a petrol four stroke car engine gives more life than a petrol four stroke bike engine has not been answered.
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Old 29th January 2008, 09:35   #21
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Still the question, how a petrol four stroke car engine gives more life than a petrol four stroke bike engine has not been answered.
A state of the art car engine has liquid cooling. EFI system with diagnostics. Compared to bikes its fairly low revving (hence less wear). Also they dont run 'lean as hell' like the bikes do. Most importantly they are "generally" purchased by older/mature/more educated people who probably take care of it better.

Last edited by Mpower : 29th January 2008 at 09:37.
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Old 29th January 2008, 10:07   #22
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Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
A state of the art car engine has liquid cooling. EFI system with diagnostics. Compared to bikes its fairly low revving (hence less wear). Also they dont run 'lean as hell' like the bikes do. Most importantly they are "generally" purchased by older/mature/more educated people who probably take care of it better.
Also the number of cylinders in the car is more than in a bike.So for say in a 4 cylinder/4 stroke car there is always one power stroke while rest of the cylinders are in different strokes.So a balance engine which leads to an increment in other parts life.
While in a bike usually its a single cylinder.So in every 4 strokes there is only one power stroke.
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Old 29th January 2008, 11:07   #23
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well as far as i have seen people use tvs stars and ct100s the well maintained bikes right from the run in have given service for like 50K to 60K KMS, no doubt! and no questions raised!.

but the other factors that could have affected are like no oil changes at the intervals, constant adulterated fuel, riding constantly in very dusty places, running on low oil levels or faulty engine or any manufacturing mishaps etc!

these bikes dont have to be blamed all to gether, they give good service and mileage for the price paid, but are generally have a shorter life span compared to hondas and herohondas.

EDIT: by shorter life i mean, the splendors, CD delux etc have a bore life around70-80K KMS and cost more by as much as 10grand!

Last edited by rider60 : 29th January 2008 at 11:08.
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Old 29th January 2008, 11:40   #24
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I own a TVS Victor and has clocked 45K+ with regular maintenance and without any problems.
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Old 29th January 2008, 16:31   #25
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I'd anyday prefer to pay more for an engine that lasts longer than lesser for an engine that lasts less! Why? Because I'd hate to have shoddy mechanics do anything to my bike!! Also bikes reputed to have longer lifes, will usually fetch better resale value!
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Old 29th January 2008, 22:45   #26
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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
The rest of the gyan about improper runin,... etc etc is just plain fantasy.
Well, must find out that guy called Soichiro Honda, passed on wrong info about the importance of proper running in of bikes, and that oil change should not be taken as a part of running in!
Soichiro, !!! @##%%

Last edited by five46 : 29th January 2008 at 22:47.
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Old 29th January 2008, 22:54   #27
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Well product goof ups do happen. Anybody remember the Bajaj Wave scooter.
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Old 30th January 2008, 00:36   #28
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EDIT: by shorter life i mean, the splendors, CD delux etc have a bore life around70-80K KMS and cost more by as much as 10grand![/quote]

Well the bajaj ct100 ,platina are certainly not that cheap compared to a hero honda dawn . Even the pricing of star is comparable to the dawn .

Regular maintenance is again ambigious because it depends on what is considered regular maintenance . For some changing brake shoes at 30k might be normal ,for some at 50k might be normal .

For some changing oil at 2000 kms is normal as the roadside mech thinks oil needs to be changed every 2000kms . For some oil change at 10,000 kms is normal .

looking at the cd100 engine from hero honda ,the engine is still the flagship model of the company . The company tried to bring in other engine models ,indegeniously developed but was not sucessful .with the same engine just changing the outer crankcase covers they are able to sell .

Last edited by greatmana2000 : 30th January 2008 at 00:40.
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Old 30th January 2008, 00:59   #29
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Originally Posted by five46 View Post
Well, must find out that guy called Soichiro Honda, passed on wrong info about the importance of proper running in of bikes, and that oil change should not be taken as a part of running in!
Soichiro, !!! @##%%
Break In Secrets--How To Break In New Motorcycle and Car Engines For More Power
Know of several people who do the same.

most moto journalists rip the bikes from the word go. you can ask them.

that aside, even BAL and other auto mfrs typically post assembly of engine, hook them up, revv it up, then drain oil, filter magnetically for iron filings, and only then is clean oil filled into them and engine fitted. not getting links for the same, but you could check with auto industry ppl - in which case, runin is irrelevant. what do u think?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
A state of the art car engine has liquid cooling. EFI system with diagnostics. Compared to bikes its fairly low revving (hence less wear). Also they dont run 'lean as hell' like the bikes do.

Most importantly they are "generally" purchased by older/mature/more educated people who probably take care of it better.
Agree completely to the first part. As for the second, its completely incorrect. There are enough ignoramuses on all kinds of wheels

think your average call center indica broken down by the road
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Old 30th January 2008, 01:20   #30
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Originally Posted by greatmana2000 View Post
EDIT: by shorter life i mean, the splendors, CD delux etc have a bore life around70-80K KMS and cost more by as much as 10grand!

Well the bajaj ct100 ,platina are certainly not that cheap compared to a hero honda dawn . Even the pricing of star is comparable to the dawn .

Regular maintenance is again ambigious because it depends on what is considered regular maintenance . For some changing brake shoes at 30k might be normal ,for some at 50k might be normal .

For some changing oil at 2000 kms is normal as the roadside mech thinks oil needs to be changed every 2000kms . For some oil change at 10,000 kms is normal .

looking at the cd100 engine from hero honda ,the engine is still the flagship model of the company . The company tried to bring in other engine models ,indegeniously developed but was not sucessful .with the same engine just changing the outer crankcase covers they are able to sell .
regular maintenance is not really as ambiguous like you describe it. the fact that the vehicle is checked for any requirement of change of parts/oil is regular maintenence in itself and not necessarily the actual changing.

btw, hero honda might argue contrary to your comment that their flagship model is the hunk and not the cd100 or its engine. flagship does not have to mean the largest selling. like the bmw flagship is the 7 series, the ferrari flagship is perhaps the enzo, the maruti flagship is the grand vitara and not the 800 or alto.

Last edited by hollywoodhogan : 30th January 2008 at 01:22.
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