Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > Motorbikes


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 16th February 2008, 13:09   #16
Awaiting Email Confirmation
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Cochin
Posts: 49
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

What actually is the technical difference between 20x40 and 20w50, grades of oil.
priyank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th February 2008, 13:25   #17
Senior - BHPian
 
straight6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bombay
Posts: 2,343
Thanked: 112 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by priyank View Post
What actually is the technical difference between 20x40 and 20w50, grades of oil.
Its the viscosity of the oil. In 20W-40, the '40' is the viscosity. If the weather gets warmer or the engine gets hotter and you think that the gears are suddenly feeling harder while shifting as if there isnt any oil between the gears, go for the '50' viscosity. Its thicker.
straight6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th February 2008, 17:47   #18
Awaiting Email Confirmation
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Cochin
Posts: 49
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by straight6 View Post
Its the viscosity of the oil. In 20W-40, the '40' is the viscosity. If the weather gets warmer or the engine gets hotter and you think that the gears are suddenly feeling harder while shifting as if there isnt any oil between the gears, go for the '50' viscosity. Its thicker.

Does it mean that, if one doesnt use his vehicle too much to the extent of overheating, he should use the 20w40 grade.

One new doubt i have over here, is how often does one have to change the front fork oil( front shock abs).
priyank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th February 2008, 18:15   #19
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: KL
Posts: 4,680
Thanked: 3,508 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by priyank View Post
Does it mean that, if one doesnt use his vehicle too much to the extent of overheating, he should use the 20w40 grade.

One new doubt i have over here, is how often does one have to change the front fork oil( front shock abs).
Don't use 20W50 for normal conditions as the manufacturer does not recommend it. Think about 20W50 only if you're going to use the bike in extreme hot conditions or continuously at high speeds.

The manufacturer recommends 20W40 because for tolerances of this particular engine needs only the viscosity of a 2W40 engine oil under normal riding conditions.

Last edited by Sankar : 16th February 2008 at 18:16.
Sankar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th February 2008, 07:43   #20
Senior - BHPian
 
rider60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bhagyanagaram. (A.K.A. Hyderabad)
Posts: 1,619
Thanked: 47 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
What is the specified grade of oil for the Honda Unicorn? Is it 20W40 or 20W50?
Quote:
Originally Posted by praJEEP View Post
20w40 lolly! 20w50 is for karizma.
no please do read my entire post for the answer!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
Thanks praJEEP.

@rider60: If the recommended grade of oil for the Unicorn is 20W40 then why do you refer to the service guys as "dumb heads"?
this too is explained below please read it patiently its a long explanation!

Quote:
Originally Posted by priyank View Post
Does it mean that, if one doesnt use his vehicle too much to the extent of overheating, he should use the 20w40 grade.

One new doubt i have over here, is how often does one have to change the front fork oil( front shock abs).
what do you mean by over heating?, at least according to me the overheating occurs when the bike is either dragged or the bike is constantly doing 80 - 90 ona highway etc. even for the daily city traffic commutes i recommend the better grade, if the bike is used only like 3-4 times in a week for short distances and thats all then use the 20w40 other wise if there is more distance to cover and its not peak winter then use 20w50!

about the fork oil go to the A.S.S., then ask them to diagnose if you really need one its like if you do stoppies, hard disk braking etc you might need it pretty soon!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
Don't use 20W50 for normal conditions as the manufacturer does not recommend it. Think about 20W50 only if you're going to use the bike in extreme hot conditions or continuously at high speeds.

The manufacturer recommends 20W40 because for tolerances of this particular engine needs only the viscosity of a 2W40 engine oil under normal riding conditions.

i dont think so! take a look at the manual your self sankar.















let me tell you guys something checkout the owner's manual for the recommendations first.

its not just the 20w40, it says depending on the average atmospheric temperature in your area!.

but honda has this branded 20w40 oil alone manufactured by them and they sell this ONLY! and they only pour in this as this is the least costing, as produced in huge quantities and is the bare minimum that the engine needs!

you see during at least 6 months in a year the average temperature is above 30'C during day time, in most of India except a few places and in few places like the Andhra TN etc its more like 8-9 months that the average temperature and it definitely shoots up above 40'C in the summers!


now you help me decide what grade oil is recommended?

if its me i will use only 20w50 except in the peak winters!, the reason is we usually go through bumper to bumper traffic and cruise in between 35-60kmph in cities!

and if on highways even at more speeds!

the engine goes through a lot of stress and does reach and stays at higher temperature! so the bare necessity is actually 20w50 and not 20w40, the 20w40 actually costs less by as much as 60-100 bucks in comparison to 20w50 depending on what brand you choose and the DUMB HEADS or rather geniuses are cashing in here trying to show that the maintainance is LOWER! and also make the wear and tear happen faster so that they sell the spares in more numbers and quicker and SOONER than the engine is suppose to wear out at!

the 20w40 IMHO is only good for the 100/110cc bikes not the even good for a 125cc, after all the stress these engines go through its actually an insult if am allowed to call it that these engines are operated on a lower grade oil by the manufacturer himself!, you see they sort have that UNDER TEST CONDITIONS attitude and recommend the lower grade oil saying its sufficient!.

i had big fight with the BAJAJ(i had a 180cc pulsar sold it too but the owner ship report awaits) and HONDA A.S.S. for they did not agree to pour in the Higher grade OIL and said my warranty would be void, but then again i seriously did not the Time and Patience to argue and hold these arguments up so started servicing my bikes at home, with the help of a local mechanic who comes to my place and services it under my supervision!

one funny thing i wanted to share here, when ever we visit the honda A.S.S., there are pictures showing the worn out parts due to usage of non honda spares and oils with unrecommended specifications, if we use the Honda oils thats exactly what will happen in due course of time as they do not suit our environments well! the higher viscosity oil is what we need to keep our bikes running well for a long time!

all of this is from my own personal experience from being a pulsar180 owner previously, that did 18000+kms in 1year and 3months exactly!, and i currently own a Unicorn, modified for cosmetic changes, do checkout my gallery! and finally NO Offenses meant to any one!

Last edited by rider60 : 18th February 2008 at 07:45.
rider60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th February 2008, 10:02   #21
Awaiting Email Confirmation
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Cochin
Posts: 49
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rider60 View Post
no please do read my entire post for the answer!



this too is explained below please read it patiently its a long explanation!



what do you mean by over heating?, at least according to me the overheating occurs when the bike is either dragged or the bike is constantly doing 80 - 90 ona highway etc. even for the daily city traffic commutes i recommend the better grade, if the bike is used only like 3-4 times in a week for short distances and thats all then use the 20w40 other wise if there is more distance to cover and its not peak winter then use 20w50!

about the fork oil go to the A.S.S., then ask them to diagnose if you really need one its like if you do stoppies, hard disk braking etc you might need it pretty soon!




i dont think so! take a look at the manual your self sankar.















let me tell you guys something checkout the owner's manual for the recommendations first.

its not just the 20w40, it says depending on the average atmospheric temperature in your area!.

but honda has this branded 20w40 oil alone manufactured by them and they sell this ONLY! and they only pour in this as this is the least costing, as produced in huge quantities and is the bare minimum that the engine needs!

you see during at least 6 months in a year the average temperature is above 30'C during day time, in most of India except a few places and in few places like the Andhra TN etc its more like 8-9 months that the average temperature and it definitely shoots up above 40'C in the summers!


now you help me decide what grade oil is recommended?

if its me i will use only 20w50 except in the peak winters!, the reason is we usually go through bumper to bumper traffic and cruise in between 35-60kmph in cities!

and if on highways even at more speeds!

the engine goes through a lot of stress and does reach and stays at higher temperature! so the bare necessity is actually 20w50 and not 20w40, the 20w40 actually costs less by as much as 60-100 bucks in comparison to 20w50 depending on what brand you choose and the DUMB HEADS or rather geniuses are cashing in here trying to show that the maintainance is LOWER! and also make the wear and tear happen faster so that they sell the spares in more numbers and quicker and SOONER than the engine is suppose to wear out at!

the 20w40 IMHO is only good for the 100/110cc bikes not the even good for a 125cc, after all the stress these engines go through its actually an insult if am allowed to call it that these engines are operated on a lower grade oil by the manufacturer himself!, you see they sort have that UNDER TEST CONDITIONS attitude and recommend the lower grade oil saying its sufficient!.

i had big fight with the BAJAJ(i had a 180cc pulsar sold it too but the owner ship report awaits) and HONDA A.S.S. for they did not agree to pour in the Higher grade OIL and said my warranty would be void, but then again i seriously did not the Time and Patience to argue and hold these arguments up so started servicing my bikes at home, with the help of a local mechanic who comes to my place and services it under my supervision!

one funny thing i wanted to share here, when ever we visit the honda A.S.S., there are pictures showing the worn out parts due to usage of non honda spares and oils with unrecommended specifications, if we use the Honda oils thats exactly what will happen in due course of time as they do not suit our environments well! the higher viscosity oil is what we need to keep our bikes running well for a long time!

all of this is from my own personal experience from being a pulsar180 owner previously, that did 18000+kms in 1year and 3months exactly!, and i currently own a Unicorn, modified for cosmetic changes, do checkout my gallery! and finally NO Offenses meant to any one!


Thank you so much RIDER60

It indeed was a great pleasure reading through your post, you have infact cleared all my doubts with regard to the engine oil, and yes i do appreciate your effort for all the time spent into drafting this FAQ with seflessness.


Thanks again




priyank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th February 2008, 11:04   #22
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: KL
Posts: 4,680
Thanked: 3,508 Times
Default

Thanks for clearing it up rider60. So Honda advises the use of different grade oils for different conditions. In Kerala the temperature is usually between 22C to 32C and rises to 36C in summer.

So in Kerala as per their manual Honda should use they should use 20W50 or 15W50 or 10W40 or maybe even a 10W30 oil.

But the genuine Honda oil comes only in the grade 20W40. Where as Hero Honda genuine oil is available in the grades 20W40 and 10W30.
Sankar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th February 2008, 11:31   #23
BHPian
 
hrishig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Pune
Posts: 372
Thanked: 12 Times
Default

I own unicorn since ~ 3 years ( My bike was in the first lot of self start in Pune , waited 3+ months for self start)

the ODO has done 24+ k

I don't have any problem at all ,

The sound and vibration will be higher after first ~8k like ANY other bike , but it is still much much better than pulser apatche cbz etc etc..( Only suzuki bikes are smoother like honda bikes but look wise they are bad)

Pulser cbz are supposed to be sporty bikes ( read that as back problems , pressuring you lower body segment ****'s because of aggressive seating position etc etc)

and unicorn is comparatively mature bike ( read that as Silk smooth ride , no false neutrals , better mileage )

Test drive all the bikes and make your pick
hrishig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th February 2008, 12:42   #24
BHPian
 
praJEEP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 537
Thanked: 3 Times
Default

Quote:
But the genuine Honda oil comes only in the grade 20W40. Where as Hero Honda genuine oil is available in the grades 20W40 and 10W30.
Correction even 20w50 is also available.

EDIT: sorry sankar my mistake it's not available.

Last edited by praJEEP : 18th February 2008 at 13:01.
praJEEP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th February 2008, 12:57   #25
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: KL
Posts: 4,680
Thanked: 3,508 Times
Default

But their webistes doesn't list it. They need to update it.

Hero Honda – Rider Education Tips - Important Maintenance Tips

HMSI --> Products --> Honda Engine Oil
Sankar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th February 2008, 15:26   #26
Senior - BHPian
 
mithun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Cochin
Posts: 1,950
Thanked: 49 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by priyank View Post
Hey guys,

Thanks for all the posts and inputs,

I want to know whether the following rumors about the unicorn are true

1. The mono suspension sinking after some time and loosing its action

2. The engine purity and sound increasing after 6 months of continuous use.

Thanks
Uni's Monoshocks are known to be stiff when compared to Pulsar's gas shocks.
mithun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2008, 03:16   #27
Senior - BHPian
 
rider60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bhagyanagaram. (A.K.A. Hyderabad)
Posts: 1,619
Thanked: 47 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hrishig View Post
I own unicorn since ~ 3 years ( My bike was in the first lot of self start in Pune , waited 3+ months for self start[IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/yashraaj/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG])

the ODO has done 24+ k

I don't have any problem at all ,

The sound and vibration will be higher after first ~8k like ANY other bike , but it is still much much better than pulser apatche cbz etc etc..( Only suzuki bikes are smoother like honda bikes but look wise they are bad)

Pulser cbz are supposed to be sporty bikes ( read that as back problems , pressuring you lower body segment ****'s because of aggressive seating position etc etc)

and unicorn is comparatively mature bike ( read that as Silk smooth ride , no false neutrals , better mileage )

Test drive all the bikes and make your pick

you see its something like this, the oil, gets way thicker at the end of its life cycle that is when its completely burnt at the 4000kms mark as the honda suggests it!, this happens because we all ride the bikes with good bursts of accelerations in this 4000kms period and hence the oil does wear out, and due to our atmospheric conditions the 20w40 grade wears out in between 800-1500kms range when spirited ridding is done even occasionally!

its better that we use the 20w40 oil for only 1500kms and the 20w50 oil for not more than 2500 kms after these kms marks usually at these kms marks the gears start getting stuck/slips, the shifts get hard etc,
and then on we run on the stock 20w40 oil for another 1500 as recommended by the manufacturer, and hence there is much more wear and tear!
there is this condition where if one does not do sudden acceleration but only sedate riding and does not cross the 4000Rpm mark and strictly no STOP GAP TRAFFIC then and only then does even the 20w50 oil can be expected to last 4000kms! which is next to impossible on our roads!

you see all these bikes have a single piston taking all the plunge!, unlike in cars here is more than one to do the job hence they can take all the stress, you see in some cars they change the oil at 10K Kms intervals!

i suggest you change the oils in shorter intervals for good life of the engine and the OE parts in it!, and also use the higher grade oil except in peak winters, as its got lesser viscosity than the lower grade 20w40 and will give a good engine service! as we know the viscosity changes due to temperatures!


this is the reason that the inside parts of the bike lose their shiny color due to the worn out/burnt oil staying in the chamber for a longer time than specified, if some one has the habit of changing the oil at the right intervals as specified, the internal parts will still remain as good as new and the engine life, GB life, clutch plates life actually is increased and stays good for a long time!, but all this is subjective to the kind of riding done on the bike!


even the engine vibrations would not show up that soon!
rider60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2008, 11:30   #28
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pune
Posts: 508
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Nice info rider60! Thanks a ton!
manish7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th February 2008, 21:07   #29
Awaiting Email Confirmation
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Cochin
Posts: 49
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Well, please guys keep this post alive, by pooling in your comments, instead of starting more just for the sake of posting.


Well I just don't understand why these HONDA guys over there feel that they don't need to launch newer variants of their bikes in India.



I personally believe that we are being treated as underdogs.


priyank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th February 2008, 21:31   #30
BHPian
 
gendarmee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: India
Posts: 731
Thanked: 21 Times
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by rider60 View Post



Great to see visual proof of the information!
But hey! You could have done better with the Sony DSC-W30 Rider60, next time turn on the macro mode(flower icon on the jog dial) for such snaps, they will come out as sharp as a needle.(i possible take without the flash by increasing the ambient light or using butter paper for dispersion in front of the flash, read more here Tech2.com India > Fun With Your Camera Flash! > Features > Cameras and Accessories > Digital Cameras It removes the lightening effect from the flash. )

Little things can make snaps taken in a hurry, pretty exceptional snaps.

Last edited by gendarmee : 29th February 2008 at 21:35. Reason: Typo, now adding a link i found after a quick search
gendarmee is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Honda CB Unicorn/Unicorn Dazzler - Technical Specifications & Feature List bluevolt Motorbikes 0 25th September 2011 15:35
RBI Monetary Policy Review: The tightening gathers momentum! pawan_pullarwar Shifting gears 4 2nd February 2010 21:46
The value for money SX4 now even more value for money-I map navigator free ram_hyundai The Indian Car Scene 20 23rd October 2008 11:23
RTR/Unicorn or Avenger - which one? Edit: Bought Unicorn - Dealer woes manish7 Motorbikes 34 24th April 2008 11:53


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 20:26.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks