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Old 1st June 2013, 19:24   #91
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Default Re: The best 4T oil

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Originally Posted by girishglg View Post
Please advise on the engine oil change for my Discover 125.

Also please suggest -
  1. Which engine oil is best suited to Discover
  2. What quantity should I buy or would be required
  3. What frequency is best to change the oil (mine has run 2.3k after the previous change)
  4. Should this be a topup or a drain and refill exercise
The best VFM semi synth oils currently available in the market are Shell Advance AX5 and Valvoline 4T premium. Please check if the grade of these oils suits your bike.
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Old 1st June 2013, 19:27   #92
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Originally Posted by Scarlet_Rider View Post

My daily ride is a 2007 Bajaj Discover 135. As mentioned in the owner's manual I change the engine oil (on my own) every 5000 kms.

For the last two oil changes I have been using Shell Advance AX5 which has a viscosity grade of 20W-40, which is specified in the owner's manual. I buy it from a Shell fuel outlet.

I was previously using Castrol Power 1 but after switching to Shell Advance AX5, I felt the engine to be a lot smoother. The Shell Advance AX5 comes in packs of 900ml and 1 litre. The Discover 135 needs 1 litre.

Please do check the owner's manual for the oil grade, quantity and frequency of change. For Discover 125, I think it should be the same as Discover 135.

I keep checking the oil level every 1000 kms and never had the need to top up despite the bike being driven mostly in city traffic.

In case the oil level drops before the scheduled change, you will need to top it up and also find out why the oil consumption has increased. For a scheduled oil change, it should be a complete drain and refill exercise that should also include inspecting and replacing the rubber O-rings of the drain nut and oil filter if required.

Regards and Keep Revving,

Rahul Waghmare.
Rahul, you are slowly damaging your engine by changing oil at 5k kms. In our riding conditions, 2.5k is the max you can stretch a mineral oil. Anything more than that is dangerous for the engine. If you are using synthetic then you can stretch till 6k kms.

Do the engine a big favour and change oil at 2.5k kms. Your engine Will thank you for it.
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Old 1st June 2013, 20:49   #93
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Default Re: The best 4T oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by girishglg View Post
Please advise on the engine oil change for my Discover 125.

Also please suggest -
  1. Which engine oil is best suited to Discover
  2. What quantity should I buy or would be required
  3. What frequency is best to change the oil (mine has run 2.3k after the previous change)
  4. Should this be a topup or a drain and refill exercise
From my experience of various oils, i would strongly recommend you the Valvoline premium 20W50. Pulsar engines run incredibly smooth with this oil.Costs 350 bucks.. I know discover needs 20W40 but this oil is so good that it will make the engine purrrrrr smoothly. Don't worry 20W50 wont do any harm

1 Litre is the required quantity

Mineral oil change interval should be around 2500 kms . Till 3000 is a stretch. Above 3000 is risky for the engine

Since you have already run 2300 kms, this change has to be a drain and refill exercise.
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Old 2nd June 2013, 10:38   #94
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Default Re: The best 4T oil

Hi, I own a 2000 suzuki fiero with stock engines. I would like to know the spec of engine oil recommended by manufacturer. All these years it was serviced at TVS service centers hence really don't know what oil they were using. Also whats the change interval if i switch over to synthetic. Does this model comes with an engine oil filter?
Thanks..
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Old 2nd June 2013, 10:51   #95
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Originally Posted by ameaa View Post
Hi, I own a 2000 suzuki fiero with stock engines. I would like to know the spec of engine oil recommended by manufacturer. All these years it was serviced at TVS service centers hence really don't know what oil they were using. Also whats the change interval if i switch over to synthetic. Does this model comes with an engine oil filter?
Thanks..
What I remember is that they used a red color lube from Mobil, at least at my a.s.s.
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Old 2nd June 2013, 15:00   #96
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Post Re: The best 4T oil

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Originally Posted by sagarpadaki View Post
Do the engine a big favour and change oil at 2.5k kms.
Sagar, what I feel is that when a bike is made for the Indian market, the company's R & D folks would have tested the bike accordingly. That is why the owner's manual clearly states that an oil change is required every 5000 kms.

Even the service schedule that is given for the first 30,000 kms clearly indicates an oil change every 5000 kms once the running in is done. The services are scheduled for every 2500 kms with an oil change being indicated in every alternate service i.e. every 5000 kms.

I have also heard oil shop guys and road side mechanics insisting that engine oil needs to be changed every 2500 kms but I feel that it is a waste of money. As long as one uses oil of a reputed brand and that comes in sealed one litre packs (unlike oils that come in drums at the A.S.S.), it is safe to change the oil every 5000 kms.
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Old 2nd June 2013, 19:38   #97
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Default Re: The best 4T oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarlet_Rider View Post
Sagar, what I feel is that when a bike is made for the Indian market, the company's R & D folks would have tested the bike accordingly. That is why the owner's manual clearly states that an oil change is required every 5000 kms.

Even the service schedule that is given for the first 30,000 kms clearly indicates an oil change every 5000 kms once the running in is done. The services are scheduled for every 2500 kms with an oil change being indicated in every alternate service i.e. every 5000 kms.

I have also heard oil shop guys and road side mechanics insisting that engine oil needs to be changed every 2500 kms but I feel that it is a waste of money. As long as one uses oil of a reputed brand and that comes in sealed one litre packs (unlike oils that come in drums at the A.S.S.), it is safe to change the oil every 5000 kms.
Even my pulsar 180 manual says its 5000 kms between oil change. Agreed about the Indian conditions et all. But keep in mind that like fuel efficiency quoted by the company is under ideal driving conditions, the oil change interval is also quoted under ideal conditions.Like you can never get the company advertised FE in real conditions, in the same way, you cannot expect the life of the engine oil to be 5000 kms . Finally its your call. If you feel that the engine oil is holding viscosity after 2500 kms then you can stretch it. Just ensure that the oil holds its viscosity.
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Old 2nd June 2013, 20:03   #98
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Default Re: The best 4T oil

I have noticed,this across bikes,if you ride at high speeds for extended period of time on Long stretches,the engine oil does not last beyond 2K kms,it loses viscosity and in fact the oil level dips as well,i have noticed this across various air cooled machines.
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Old 2nd June 2013, 22:30   #99
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Originally Posted by akshay4587 View Post
I have noticed,this across bikes,if you ride at high speeds for extended period of time on Long stretches,the engine oil does not last beyond 2K kms,it loses viscosity and in fact the oil level dips as well,i have noticed this across various air cooled machines.
Agreed.

A few trips where I can vouch for and all in a day so involved zipping and non-stop runs with very short breaks. Keylong-Delhi, Bardiya(Nepal)-Delhi, Delhi-Manali (& vice-versa), Delhi-Mcleodganj. Every time the oil needed to be changed after 1500-2000 kms.
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Old 3rd June 2013, 00:07   #100
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Default Re: The best 4T oil

I'm curious.

How did you determine the oil needed changing after your high speed riding for long distances?

Yes, oil will thin when it gets hot but it should return to its original viscosity after it has cooled.
Yes, some engines will use a bit of oil when ridden at high speeds but this is due to the mechanical limitations of the piston rings to limit the amount of oil that gets past them. It is not a fault of the oil. (Oil loss thru the crankcase breather system is also a common problem.)

IMO, riding the motorcycle so that the engine oil gets very hot (like during high speed riding) is actually much better for the oil than riding short distances at low speeds.

Short trips and low speed riding doesn't allow the engine oil to reach over 100 degrees C.
This cool oil will allow the water and acids that are produced during combustion of the petrol to contaminate the oil and reduce its ability to lubricate and to prevent corrosion.

Modern motor oils contain additives that prevent foaming or a large loss of viscosity.
There are additives that withstand the high shearing loads and provide lubrication of the piston rings, transmission gears, camshaft followers, rocker arm/valve stem interface and every other highly loaded area and if the oil meets JASO MA it does this without making a wet plate clutch slip.

With a quality oil, all of these additives should be able to last at least 5000 km providing a clean oil filter was installed during the oil change.

Of course, this is just my opinion so feel free to disagree.
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Old 3rd June 2013, 01:25   #101
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Post Re: The best 4T oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by sagarpadaki View Post
But keep in mind that like fuel efficiency quoted by the company is under ideal driving conditions, the oil change interval is also quoted under ideal conditions.
We own a Bajaj Discover 135, Suzuki Access 125 and a Premier 118 NE. None of the user's manuals for these vehicles mention that the specified oil change interval is under ideal conditions. They just give the number of kilometers after which the oil needs to be replaced.

You would be surprised to know that the oil change interval specified for an old car like the Premier 118 NE is 10,000 kms!! The oil change intervals for Bajaj Discover 135 and Suzuki Access 125 are 5000 kms and 4000 kms respectively.

Why would manufacturers risk their reputation by providing an incorrect oil change interval in their owner's manuals? If you say that the oil change interval in the owner's manual is under ideal driving conditions, why do they not list out different oil change intervals for different driving conditions? This should atleast give the customer an idea when the oil needs to be really replaced.

Here is a link (although it applies to cars) that you will find an interesting read: 3,000_mile_myth

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post
With a quality oil, all of these additives should be able to last at least 5000 km providing a clean oil filter was installed during the oil change.
I totally agree with you. Good quality oils are well capable of handling the stresses of modern engines and 5000 kms is an ideal interval for an oil change.
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Old 3rd June 2013, 09:25   #102
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Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post
I'm curious.
With a quality oil, all of these additives should be able to last at least 5000 km providing a clean oil filter was installed during the oil change.
...
Of course, this is just my opinion so feel free to disagree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarlet_Rider View Post
I totally agree with you. Good quality oils are well capable of handling the stresses of modern engines and 5000 kms is an ideal interval for an oil change.
Last year a friend's 500 engine seized when we were on the way back from Leh. The bike was under warranty and was religiously kept and maintained. This guy probably maintains his bike like his GF. The ASC & RE refused to honor the warranty saying that due to high speed continuous riding, the engine seized because of engine oil break down. The engine oil was filled by the ASC right before the ride. Escalation didn't help. Of course, it could also have been a ring failure or anything because we couldn't do an RCA in a lab.

Of late, if am not wrong, RE and a lot of manufacturers including BMW/Honda have started specifying that the engine oil change & service interval is dependent on driving conditions. In fact on the Beemer, the OBD shortens the service interval reminder based on one's spirited driving; one of the parameters being engine oil life besides others.
This observation is based on personal experience, specifically only for RE bikes coupled with their engine oil. It's not just about the oil!

Jim - we do carry same grade oil and do the crank case 1 minute start /stop test before starting to ride every morning presuming that RE's machining tolerances are still not at par with the global manufacturers.

PS: I am a mechanical engineer (with a keen interest in automobiles and how they work) having started my career about 13 yrs back with Honda. Not that this info is relevant to this discussion but just wanted to share that I am not a noob.
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Old 3rd June 2013, 10:46   #103
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Default Re: The best 4T oil

With your background, we both know RE's answer to the engine seizing was pure bunk. They (RE) were obviously trying to avoid repairing one of their mechanical faults and grasping at straws.

Fortunatlely my 2011, G5 (500cc Electra) hadn't heard about your friends bike.
Twice I have ridden it at 100-110 kmph non-stop for over 160km before taking a 10 minute smoke break. I then proceeded to ride it for another 160km at similar speeds before arriving in Flagstaff, Arizona at my sons house.

I rode it the same way on the return trip and to date have made this journey twice.
Absolutely no problems with the bike before, during or after the trip. In fact, if the low deserts weren't so hot now I'd consider doing it again soon.

Oh, I did not change the oil before making either of these trips so the bike was lubricated with what was basically "used" Mobil-1 V-Twin 20-50.

As a side note, my Royal Enfield has over 16,950 km on it and is running like a champ.

Last edited by ArizonaJim : 3rd June 2013 at 10:49.
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Old 3rd June 2013, 16:19   #104
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Default Re: The best 4T oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by shineshine View Post
The best VFM semi synth oils currently available in the market are Shell Advance AX5 and Valvoline 4T premium. Please check if the grade of these oils suits your bike.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarlet_Rider View Post
My daily ride is a 2007 Bajaj Discover 135. As mentioned in the owner's manual I change the engine oil (on my own) every 5000 kms.

For the last two oil changes I have been using Shell Advance AX5 which has a viscosity grade of 20W-40, which is specified in the owner's manual. I buy it from a Shell fuel outlet.
.
This is good information. Even I have been thinking of going for the Shell oil for the next change. Heard in some posts that Shell bunks also do the oil change service. Not sure if that is so.

Also since the oil in the bike currently has been topped by the service center and of unknown origin, would like to drain this oil and get it refilled.
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Old 3rd June 2013, 16:40   #105
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Default Re: The best 4T oil

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Originally Posted by girishglg View Post
This is good information. Even I have been thinking of going for the Shell oil for the next change. Heard in some posts that Shell bunks also do the oil change service. Not sure if that is so.

Also since the oil in the bike currently has been topped by the service center and of unknown origin, would like to drain this oil and get it refilled.
You heard that right. Shell petrol pumps not only top up but totally change the oil. They do a full drain and then fill the oil. I have used this facility from them here in Hyderabad.

And yes, do change the oil fully, I do not rely anymore on the oils provided by the Bajaj service center.
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