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Old 31st March 2014, 07:13   #121
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Bullet oil change...

@ ArizonaJim, any positives in having Jaso spec'd oils in old Ci or Avl engines? It seems a tricky mix with pressure additives for transmission gears, less friction modifiers to help clutch etc. Most semi-unit bullets have long been running on car oils but current Api standards has made it hard to locate one giving the magic combination of spec & actual performance esp for Ci.

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Old 31st March 2014, 11:07   #122
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Bullet oil change...

The only place the oils meeting the JASO specification is needed in the Iron Barrel or the Lean Burn AVL is in the primary sidecase where the clutch is located.
As you know, the oil in the sidecase does not mix with the engine oil. It is a self contained compartment and the oil in this area is there only to lubricate the primary chain between the engine sprocket and the clutch, the clutch and the clutch actuation rods/bearing.

The oils meeting the JASO requirement will not cause a "wet plate" clutch to slip under load while still supplying lubrication to the various parts.

A number of people use Automatic Transmission fluid in the left primary sidecase because the ATF must do that same job in a automatic transmission.

The gearbox, whether it is a 4 speed or 5 speed on these older non UCE powered motorcycles also has its own supply of lubrication.
Usually this is a heavy gear lube that is designed for the high shear loads between the gear teeth.
If the bearings in these older style gearboxes has been modified to use sealed bearings a 90 weight gear oil or hypoid gear oil can be used.
If the bearings are the original unsealed type, the thinner 90 weight oil will just run out of the gearbox and form a slippery puddle on the ground.

As for finding a oil that can be used in both the engine and clutch sidecase just look for a oil that is made for a 4 stroke motorcycle.
Most, if not all of these 4 stroke motorcycle oils meet JASO and have the needed friction modifiers for engines and gearboxes.

The old CI was designed back in the day that there were very few additives in common motor oil. The new motorcycle specific 4 cycle oils are light years ahead of those old fashioned oils and will greatly extend the life of any engine using them.

Last edited by ArizonaJim : 31st March 2014 at 11:10.
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Old 1st April 2014, 07:17   #123
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Bullet oil change...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post
... The new motorcycle specific 4 cycle oils are light years ahead of those old fashioned oils and will greatly extend the life of any engine using them.
Current car engine oils (pcmo) even the regular mineral based too are much improved these days. So do you think that a m'cycle 4T oil can better a car oil in some way when used in old Ci/ Avl engine ?

Last edited by Rennjit : 1st April 2014 at 07:19.
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Old 2nd April 2014, 05:07   #124
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Bullet oil change...

The motorcycle type oil is better for your Ci/AVL engine than a car oil because it contains phosphorous and zinc additives (ZDDP) which enhances the lubrication of the valve lifters (tappets) and valve stems not to mention the other parts that slip and slide on one another.

The phosphorous and zinc additives were removed from the oils meant to be used in cars because under certain conditions they can damage the catalytic converter, making it less effective.
Because of this it would be better not to use a motorcycle type oil in a car and it is not advisable to use a car oil in a motorcycle.

Some oils made to be used in a diesel engine still contain the phosphorous and zinc compounds and will also work in a old style motorcycle like the Ci and AVL but I wouldn't use them in the primary drive/clutch housing or the transmission.
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Old 2nd April 2014, 07:39   #125
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Bullet oil change...

The zinc/ phosphorus additive content is limited by Api S_ std specs, which i assume is common for pertol engine oils. So unless there is a concession offered in max content of zddp etc in a 4T oil, it cannot have more than a car oil. If the 4T oil has more of newer alternate (to zddp) additives than car oils, it could be beneficial. But how do we know?
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Old 3rd April 2014, 05:24   #126
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Bullet oil change...

I believe your assumption is incorrect.

Follow this link to see what Mobil-1's zddp content is.

Notice the oils for automobiles contains significantly less than the oils made for diesels, motorcycles (T4 & V-Twin) and racing applications.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...duct_Guide.pdf

This Motul link may also be useful. Pay attention to #12 which mentions the additional zddp.

http://www.linkint.com.au/motul_oil_faq.html
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Old 17th September 2014, 18:11   #127
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Bullet oil change...

Looks like the right thread for my query

I have a 350 UCE with 50K on ODO and a servicing due. Would like to change oil to fully synthetic and would need your recommendations please. I have been doing oil changes with RE service all this while and they use the recommended Motul oils. So any suggestions would be greatly helpful.

Thanks,Santosh
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Old 17th September 2014, 19:56   #128
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Bullet oil change...

@ ArizonaJim, not exactly incorrect it is. The max Zddp limits are set by API for differing class eg SF / SL however how much of zinc content is in a car / m'cycle oil is upto manufacturer. API does not suggest higher levels of additives for m'cycle but oil companies may go for it, although within stipulated limit applicable for the service class which again is same for a fuel type. There may be Special oils in developed markets but over here the chances are slim.

A pco oil would fare better in pre-unit engines also backed by the fact that the oil is less modified to avoid clutch slip. In 20w50 grade, only a couple of oils (in mineral / semi-synth types) from Valvoline & Motul fares good in the 4T oil branded ones. Then again their equivalent car oils & many others too perform similar especially in CI engines, particularly the universal spec'd ones meant common for both petrol & diesel engines. The 4T's may be good for UCE engines which shares oil with clutch & g'box but the old-fashioned engines are more than happy with regular brews than the modern cocktails.

cheers..,

Last edited by Rennjit : 17th September 2014 at 19:58.
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Old 28th February 2015, 14:57   #129
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Bullet oil change...

Hello All, I am planning to replace the engine oil to a semi synthetic in my Electra 350 UCE, it has done 2300kms now, and have been using RE recommended mineral oil so far.

Please advice which one to go for?

I want to go shell helix, since i have used the same in my car and the engine is much smoother than before. hence want to go with Shell.

They do not have the 15w50 though, the fully synthetic ones they have is a 5w40, and the semi synthetic one they have is a 10w40. Please advice if the semi synthetic one would be better?
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Old 1st March 2015, 00:37   #130
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Bullet oil change...

So I went on to get Shell Helix 10W40 Semi Synthetic oil, would this cause any issues if i run it in my Electra 350 UCE?
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Old 1st March 2015, 01:35   #131
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Bullet oil change...

If I were you, I would stick with the recommended one atleast till the 5th service. Again in m not sure how are royal Enfield will like synthetic oils.
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Old 1st March 2015, 04:10   #132
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Bullet oil change...

The UCE engine LOVES full synthetic oil.
I'm not sure it loves a 40 weight oil though.
This lighter (thinner) oil may not give the engine and transmission the protection it needs during the hot summer months or when it is ridden at high speeds.

The important thing to remember is the oil must meet one of the JASO standards.

These JASO standards assure the oil is suitable for use with the wet plate clutch the motorcycle uses.

This is not an issue with the older Iron Barrel or the AVL Lean Burn engines because they do not share their engine oil with the clutch or gearbox.
The UCE on the other hand uses the engine oil to lubricate the wet plate clutch and primary drive chain as well as the gears in the transmission.
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Old 29th July 2015, 18:47   #133
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Bullet oil change...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post
The UCE engine LOVES full synthetic oil.
I'm not sure it loves a 40 weight oil though.
This lighter (thinner) oil may not give the engine and transmission the protection it needs during the hot summer months or when it is ridden at high speeds.

The important thing to remember is the oil must meet one of the JASO standards.

These JASO standards assure the oil is suitable for use with the wet plate clutch the motorcycle uses.

This is not an issue with the older Iron Barrel or the AVL Lean Burn engines because they do not share their engine oil with the clutch or gearbox.
The UCE on the other hand uses the engine oil to lubricate the wet plate clutch and primary drive chain as well as the gears in the transmission.
UCE engines love synthetic oil? Was reading in some other forums and some were telling that the ester in FS oil will remove the seals formed by sludge and oil will start leaking in RE's.
The main culprit is sub-standard construction.
So people are suggesting to go for FS oil at the first oil change itself.
How true is this?

Also people who are Full synthetic / Semi synthetic oils in UCE machines, Please update your experience.

FYI: Have tried asking around couple of mechanics. Each says diff and some sticks to specific brands only. ( I think they get some sort of commision)
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Old 29th July 2015, 19:09   #134
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Bullet oil change...

I have been using the Motul 300v Semi-Synthetic Oil from more than one year.

My RE Electra UCE has done around 16K on the odo.

While there are no drastic changes in Gear Shifting, I found it to be smoother than before. The engine noise is lesser and the Oil change interval has increased.

I cannot say whether this is because of the oil change or if the Engine has 'seasoned' by now.

If you are regularly servicing your bike, I would suggest you to stick to mineral oil.
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Old 29th July 2015, 19:26   #135
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Bullet oil change...

Quote:
Originally Posted by KA18 View Post
I have been using the Motul 300v Semi-Synthetic Oil from more than one year.

My RE Electra UCE has done around 16K on the odo.

While there are no drastic changes in Gear Shifting, I found it to be smoother than before. The engine noise is lesser and the Oil change interval has increased.

I cannot say whether this is because of the oil change or if the Engine has 'seasoned' by now.

If you are regularly servicing your bike, I would suggest you to stick to mineral oil.
Thanks KA18.
Mine has clocked 10k now. has been servicing it at every 3k kms.
I am mightly confused about the choice of oil.
I want something in the range of 15w50 as recommended. and I don't want to compramise on the 50 part.
As of now, Liquid Gun (mineral oil) and Motul 5100 seems to fit the specs.
I dont the extra cost of the Semi synthetic Motul 5100. Need something that is best for my engine. (Classic DS).
Right now its mineral oil with wurth additive (80ml).

Have talked to many users. Some say shell FS oil. Some says mineral only. Some says Motul 300V(SS).

EOD, I am very confused.
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