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Old 17th October 2008, 17:12   #136
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Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
Ah Mr. Spitfire.

Thanks for echoing my views.
Though, I did miss the laste few pages of the argument, but I can see that the point is still made.
You should read all the pages if you have the time. Will give you a better perspective.

I have for almost 7 years tried to make RE understand that what they are giving us under the name of heritage, Bullet Thing whatever, is utter shoddy work for a piece that has so much history and passion attached to it. They do charge me well for it though.

If i ask other Bullet riders and really passionate one's at that to try and understand what my issue is i have been snubbed and told its a Bullet thing you either get it or you dont. Never got what they were saying neither could they explain to me beyond a point and drift into the Bullet Thing get agitated and ride off.

Same happened in here.
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Old 17th October 2008, 20:09   #137
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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
.

If i ask other Bullet riders and really passionate one's at that to try and understand what my issue is i have been snubbed and told its a Bullet thing you either get it or you dont. Never got what they were saying neither could they explain to me beyond a point and drift into the Bullet Thing get agitated and ride off.

Same happened in here.
Spitfire, RE has not responded to your issues on pricing and quality issues, that did not stop the sale of bullets. Infact they kept selling higher volume over years. No reasoning, agreed.

Same with bullet riders as pointed out in your quote. It's individual choice. You have aired your anguish and we appreciate it. You had one bullet and now you don't. You took a stand to raise quality issues and nothing worked and you sold it. I rarely come across bullet owners selling them. Even if they do, with some compulsion/commitments.

Not that other two wheelers have any issues, Bajaj Chetak till recently had tilt and start issue. The company had never made improvement. Today Chetak is phased out. Chetak owners had taken it for granted and still rode on. Today they are antique pieces. Still there are buyers.

So My point is Bullet is riddled with lost issue bullets. But rider complains and still rides on. They don't make issues of it.

I personally feel we should stop ante bullet campaign.

I suppose you are sportive enough.


BTW, I see that you have Mahindra Classic. I invite you to the Off roading on 19th Oct at Ramanagara Sholay hills. Call me at 9448140425 to confirm.

Warm regards,

Dwarak
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Old 17th October 2008, 21:13   #138
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After reading approx 5 pages of rantings about RE, heres my 2 cents.

The new classic looks good.
But I dont think its worth the price however nostalgic it may look or make one feel.
Quality is something that RE never had and never will have.
RE turns out too many bad lemons due to their british era QC. This results in too many customers turning into uncertified mechanics.
A RE stands/stood for nostagia/pose value/thumping ride/bike with presence,etcetc
It also stands for noise pollution, unreliability, vibrations, etcetc
The RE motorcycle (any Bullet model) is the 2 wheeled equivalent of the HM ambassador. While it has its ardent fans owners and followers, its really not worth the price and the pain.

A royal enfield summed in 1 line > Good from far but far from good.

Lastly> instead of spending 2 plus lakhs(if and when it is launched is nothing short of a robbery) on the single seater classic, IMO it is better to buy a race retired horse. Better pose value, pride of ownership and a better thing to ride on a sunday than spend at the local machanic. May I add that neither suits my style.

RE is ripping Indians & firangs off with their prehistoric junk worthy only of museum display.
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Old 17th October 2008, 22:47   #139
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Spitfire: Thanks for pointing out to that link. Its nice to know more about the new bike.

I still stick to my arguement about the old ones, don't try reasoning out a passion. You'll love to call a spade a spade and nothing else, good, don't dis, cos its the same spade that a thousand "FOOLS" will be holding to answer your questions. I don't need to answer anybody why I picked up a rattling, leaking, underpowered, overweight "bike" paying so much. Its my money and I'm allowed my fundamental right to being "foolish," or whatever you'll want to term it.

Now, can we discuss about the new bike, which this topic was created for?
1. Anyone know the cost that it is going to be released in Europe for?
2. Is the 350 twin spark engine that is in India now designed by the same guys Spitfire mentioned?
3. Is the Bullet Classic going to be manufactured at the Indian plant and exported?
4. Are they any other 500s in production at present for the Indian market?
5. Anyone here has access to the plant through friends or acquaintances? Probably they will have access to the new bike too. I have a friend who was given a Thunderbird 500 cc (yes you are reading it right) to test and the same engine was later released as the Machismo 500.

-pat-
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Old 18th October 2008, 08:30   #140
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Default Bullet=Wife; All other bikes=Girl friends

You never get tired of your wife, she is someone who is there only for you, and looks after you, willing to live and die with you. The only person who will cry once your're dead. She will stay there by your hospital bed when you are sick, rejoice with you at every small victory. She might become fat, she might lose her beauty working hard in your home, but she will always have that shining gold heart and that comforting hug forever.

Girlfriends are dime a dozen. They are sophisticated and third class, they don't care about you and you don't care about them, they come and go. They might look beautiful but that is all make up

READ BETWEEN THE LINES GUYS, YOU'LL GET WHAT I AM TRYING TO SAY. AND I'M NOT EVEN MARRIED AS YET
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Old 18th October 2008, 09:36   #141
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Originally Posted by prabhuav View Post
I am a diehard bullet fan. But this is what I got on one of the bulletech forum - the author writes for a motorcycle mag.

If you can purchase a complete Brasilian 2008 Honda Cg125E for ?1699
otr which has very comparable cycle parts to the Bonnie and the
Bullet, you are basically saying that the engine is worth another 3
_grand_ on top of the chassis and the cycle parts. That's just
ridiculous!

I was a big advocate and owner of the clasic bullet when it was 2k otr
here in the UK. But, new engine or not, 5k+ is just too much to ask
for what is in effect a scaled up 125 OHV single.

And the recent model iterations, whilst some do look great, seem to
have an over emphasis on chintzy bling and Harley Chrome imitation.
Which is the complete antithesis of the Bullet in my opinion. I do not
want an Indian made, Enfield branded Sportster clone for the same
money. I know for a fact that if I buy an 883r for 5500 otr I am
getting a substantial chunk of machinary for my money that's backed up
with cast iron warranties. I used to hold that true for the Enfield
classic at less than half the price, quirks or not.

If this new bike was 3.5k not 5.5k I'd buy one, but it isn't and the
quality of a 5.5k Japanese or Yank Tank (yes, even those are now
modern CNC engineerd blocks) just isn't there. With that in mind, I
slated it at review (I work for a motorcycle magazine in the UK) as
being a hideous mish mash of concepts and business direction, clearly
blinged up and failing in the core values of what Enfield enthusiasts
consider sacrament:

1. Character and substance.
2. Individuality ie. set apart from the generic classic competition
3. Affordability
4. Tried and tested technology. Costly licensed fuel injection
implementations which add uneccessary complexity and remove critical
aspects of engine maintainence and tuning from the enthusiasts spanner
drawer and plant it firmly in the dealer network's coffers, EU
emissions regs or not, is a bad move. It forces up the base cost of
the machine and involves third parties.
5. To show progress without selling out to mass market generic
motorcycling punters. e.g. fair weather, middle aged, more money than
sense bling bikers.

I can understand why they have gone the way they have, but they are
missing one MASSIVE key point: They do *not* have the quality control,
the craftsmanship and the branding to go big time with the likes of HD
and Japan. So why build a sub standard (it is, I have ridden it and it
rusted overnight during the test!) new model using a fantastic new
engine concept and totally undermine it by overpricing it and being
entirely greedy and short sighted by pocketing the profits and not
providing a durable, quality product that will last - or the
infrastructure to produce that product in the near future.

The Indian Enfield has the worst quality control and build quality of
any motorcycle I have ever ridden, tested or owned. But for the price
I couldn't complain. I knew what I was buying.
Now, I feel like I am being asked to buy cheap crap dressed as a
Harley for far more than it's worth. With little or no real dealer
network support. This was fine when it was cheap, cheap crap. Now its
expensive crap I just don't see it working for them. I really don't
want it to, if frank, as the product is just so damn awful I'd be
embarrased to be seen on one; with every passer by thinking 'what a
muppet, he paid Harley money for that lump of thinly plated scrap!'.

Sorry if this sounds like a anti R.E. rant, but I am just so
disappointed with the new bikes pricing and finish and dismayed by
what I see as hopelessly unrealistic business policy by the money men.
Without a Japense type mass production facility and trained
professional staff its never going anywhere as a business if you turn
out the same crap and try to get top dollar for it in the single most
competative category of the motorcycle market outside of Super Sports.
The Italians couldn't break the Japanese hegemony, the Germans haven't
since the 70's and 80's and the Americans have long since given up
trying to sell the (albeit dramatically improved) hardware, focussing
their hard sell almost entirely on the lifestyle.

I suppose that's what R.E. is trying to do, but it's a house built on
the sand. With no enduring classic machines coming out the factory
door anymore, just homogoneous pulp covered in chrome and billed as a
complete solution to your 'lifestyle need', its just depressing to see
a quirky, largely incompetent but enduring business turn to whipped
choco latte frappocino turd by short selling foreign investors who'll
cut and shut ASAP.

- Chris
What an incisive and good review. You've hit the nail on the head Chris!

cruiserman
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Old 18th October 2008, 11:09   #142
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If one gets a brand new Enfield bike with a cast iron engine like an Electra. For how long can one expect reliable service from it before it starts leaking or does the leaking start depending on individual usage.

Will every modern bullet invariably go wrong after a while. Since 90% are supposed to be lemons with manufacturing defects.
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READ BETWEEN THE LINES GUYS, YOU'LL GET WHAT I AM TRYING TO SAY. AND I'M NOT EVEN MARRIED AS YET
Obviously !
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Old 18th October 2008, 11:18   #143
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Originally Posted by TheARUN View Post
You never get tired of your wife, she is someone who is there only for you, and looks after you, willing to live and die with you. The only person who will cry once your're dead. She will stay there by your hospital bed when you are sick, rejoice with you at every small victory. She might become fat, she might lose her beauty working hard in your home, but she will always have that shining gold heart and that comforting hug forever.

Girlfriends are dime a dozen. They are sophisticated and third class, they don't care about you and you don't care about them, they come and go. They might look beautiful but that is all make up

READ BETWEEN THE LINES GUYS, YOU'LL GET WHAT I AM TRYING TO SAY. AND I'M NOT EVEN MARRIED AS YET

I think its a great idea to have a bunch of girlfriends to choose from for a wife. Atleast you know what you are getting into. The girlfriend you choose to marry can be the same loving wife you mentioned.
The point you mentioned is more like an arranged marriage with you having no choice but to put up with your misery.

And You may use this piece of advice since you're not yet married

Let me add... sometimes girlfriends help you relieve you of the agony of your miserable marriage.

Last edited by jaysmokesleaves : 18th October 2008 at 11:20.
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Old 18th October 2008, 12:32   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker View Post
If one gets a brand new Enfield bike with a cast iron engine like an Electra. For how long can one expect reliable service from it before it starts leaking or does the leaking start depending on individual usage.

Will every modern bullet invariably go wrong after a while. Since 90% are supposed to be lemons with manufacturing defects.
.


Obviously !
These aren't for everyone. That's why you see some "used" ones for sale with very low mileage, I suspect. I also think we need to keep this new Bullet in perspective. It will not be all things to all people either. Much of what it offers (distinction, great looks, great heritage, great gas mileage, the great "thump" sound) you get with any Bullet of any year.
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Old 18th October 2008, 12:32   #145
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i totally agree with spitfire on QC of the bulls.. let me try an put a diff spin on this.. i own an ride jawas/yezdis an bulls (never owned jus ride them).. i will always crib bout the quality of these motors but i will never refuse to ride them , i just cant get onto a pulsar/karizma type bike its not the same , iv lost weight pushin stalled bulls and yezdis cursing them but the moment they fire up again all is forgotten an im in love again!! i wouldnt pay a lakh for a new bull no way.. rather buy a 2nd hand bull, stip it and rebuild the engine g-box to my stds, but hell lads at the end of the day the buzz in the b***s wen you ride them that makes it all worth it, after all its all bout wat gets you high.

cheers
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Old 18th October 2008, 14:11   #146
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Mr,Spitfire seems to think his linked blog article proves his case. Lets take 2 examples from his own link

1. His contention that RE cares only for customers outside India, neglecting Indian users. His link says "They spent a lot of time and money on getting the 'thump' right, which is totally critical to sales in India."

If they are focussing on markets outside India , why will his own link say RE spent a lot of time & money on getting something right, which is critical for Indian market?

2. The same link also says 'The engines are being machined by a new company that makes Japanese engines so that they are better than current ones, which aren’t too bad in and of themselves' .

Mr.spitfire conveniently forgot to quote the last part "which aren’t too bad in and of themselves' " , as it would have punctured his theory.

Anybody with basic knowledge of manufacturing & mechanical engineering would have told you that vendors, processes , quality standards etc , change when you move from one material to another ( e.g. cast iron to aluminium ).

This is not the first time that external consultants are working with RE. Egli & AVL have worked extensively with them before. And these products have been sold in India.

If you have to quote a US blog to prove that vendors & processes have changed for a new bike / engine , that just shows the near absence of any understanding of manufacturing processes.

About HArley visavis RE , In the indian context Bullet is the closest which comes to a harley as in US. the issue is availability and costs of ownership. Otherwise every karizma owner would have owned a R 1 instead , & everone who has a mahindra classic now would be having a cherokee or rangerover. ( using the same yardstick, any one who owns a jeep also is a fool , whose money was parted easily , as he should have bought a modern offroader instead )

To end, stop judging people for the decisions they take, with their own hard earned money. If you do not find value in a product, do not buy. But that does not make others who find value , fools.

Last edited by w 12 : 18th October 2008 at 14:13.
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Old 18th October 2008, 15:59   #147
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Lots of talk about the bull let me add my view too i own 2 bulls (350AVL & 500Castiron) have done numerous rides with both, i agree that its not perfect but i dont see any Indian bike which doesn't come close to "perfect" mark. i think its all about the preference and the comfort level. for some it suits and for some it doesnt.

As many have mentioned very few sell the bull...
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Old 18th October 2008, 16:20   #148
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Originally Posted by tarunmadhok View Post
These aren't for everyone. That's why you see some "used" ones for sale with very low mileage, I suspect. I also think we need to keep this new Bullet in perspective. It will not be all things to all people either. Much of what it offers (distinction, great looks, great heritage, great gas mileage, the great "thump" sound) you get with any Bullet of any year.
If I buy a Bullet Electra, how soon will I have to visit a mechanic ?

Will I be able to use the bike atleast for an year in peace.
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Old 18th October 2008, 17:55   #149
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Will I be able to use the bike atleast for an year in peace.
Thats called wishful thinking!!!
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Old 18th October 2008, 19:31   #150
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Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves View Post
Lastly> instead of spending 2 plus lakhs(if and when it is launched is nothing short of a robbery) on the single seater classic, IMO it is better to buy a race retired horse. Better pose value, pride of ownership and a better thing to ride on a sunday than spend at the local machanic. May I add that neither suits my style.

RE is ripping Indians & firangs off with their prehistoric junk worthy only of museum display.
Jay, what your point? I think everybody knows that a Bullet or a Mahindra Classic is not about hi-technology or Toyota like reliability. Its all about character, passion and nostalgia similar to Harley in the US.

As far as ripping off...keep in mind that this is a market economy and people are free to buy what they want. If they choose to buy bullets why should anybody have a problem with hit.

I suggest we all end the argument and move on the main topic of this thread.
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