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Old 23rd December 2009, 16:10   #901
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I had booked more than 6 weeks ago in the Mumbai Bandra store. they have no clear idea when I will get the bike. only by the end of this month can they tell when they will deliver.

How are the deliveries happening in other places.
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Old 23rd December 2009, 17:49   #902
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I also booked mine from the bandra showroom just around 2 weeks ago. I booked a classic 500 in black btw, i was so impatient that i called them today and inquired the status. They told me to call back on 10th or 12th of jan to inquire!

I guess it might also depend on the colour of the bike, if you have booked one in green it might take longer cuz more than 80 % of the C 500 bookings frm the bandra showroom are in green (as said by the store manager - Nilesh himself)

Last edited by Jaggu : 23rd December 2009 at 17:55. Reason: Please take time to type in full english and please punctuate accordingly. Helps in readability. Thanks.
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Old 23rd December 2009, 19:24   #903
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayPrashanth View Post
The factors are pretty convincing on the outset. But, a plug chop at WOT any day is more reliable as you can have a smoking bull at idle and still end up with a bone white plug at WOT. Since you are still running in your bull, so WOT is out of the question. Anyway, if your bull is running a rich mixture, it is something good for the running in period. :-) Meanwhile, I got 44KMPL on my LB500 during running in.

Cheers,

Jay
Plug chop at WOT is not much of help as CL500 is EFI. Its good only for carb ones.

My conclusion about the mixture being rich was confirmed by the Engineers from Chennai.

According to them, it's due to the mapping done for international market with Lamda sensor and same being used for domestic market without Lamda sensor. Which has different operating conditions and thus the problem on all the CL500 across India. At the moment RE has called up a team from Italy who has done mapping and a remap for CL500 is in progress and the problem is being looked into. I am not sure how they are going to remap all the cl500 all ready sold.

44Km/L! How the hell did you managed that figure? I think my Km/L has dropped drastically since last top up. It's below 25 now


Today I saw a CL500 with a ECU problem and they had to change it. Another one with fuel level sensor faulty. Booth problems on cl500 and different bikes. According to the Engineers, booth the problems were the first one in all the CL500 sold so far. What a bad luck for the owners.


Update on tool kit

The new and complete tool kit is being supplied with the new lot of CL350 and 500. SO if any one has missed that then do pester your dealer for a replacement if you are bothered by the incomplete kit. Mine is on the way hopefully
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Old 23rd December 2009, 22:09   #904
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Originally Posted by Randhawa View Post
Plug chop at WOT is not much of help as CL500 is EFI. Its good only for carb ones.

My conclusion about the mixture being rich was confirmed by the Engineers from Chennai.

According to them, it's due to the mapping done for international market with Lamda sensor and same being used for domestic market without Lamda sensor. Which has different operating conditions and thus the problem on all the CL500 across India. At the moment RE has called up a team from Italy who has done mapping and a remap for CL500 is in progress and the problem is being looked into. I am not sure how they are going to remap all the cl500 all ready sold.

44Km/L! How the hell did you managed that figure? I think my Km/L has dropped drastically since last top up. It's below 25 now
This is why I suggested a plug chop at WOT. If you don't have a lambda sensor, plug chops will be effective. Anyway, about me getting 44KMPL, that was when I used to ride at 70KPH in fifth gear, during running in with a 110 main jet. I always found a plug that was bone white. Now, I get 25-27KMPL depending on my riding. to this date, LB500 owners riding sedately with stock jets report mileages of 35KMPL.

Cheers,

Jay
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Old 23rd December 2009, 23:19   #905
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I don't mind going for WOT but for that I need a set of three plugs to start with(not compulsory but preferred) and the plugs are not available with the RE dealer or the Bosh dealer at the moment.

So what jet size up you are using now as your main?. As you are not much bothered by the average so I think you are running a healthy engine which is going to last longer then the engine with stock jet.
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Old 24th December 2009, 08:20   #906
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Originally Posted by Randhawa View Post

44Km/L! How the hell did you managed that figure? I think my Km/L has dropped drastically since last top up. It's below 25 now
As the CL500 has EFI, I cannot understand how the fuel efficiency can be so much below even the carb RE 500s, apart from having problems of too rich mixtures etc. Can anyone explain?

And RE is charging a real premium for the EFI, on top of everything!!
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Old 24th December 2009, 10:57   #907
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If the parameters on which the ECU calculates the amount of fuel required is not set according to the conditions then it will keep miscalculating the readings from the sensors and not provide the right mixture.

As for carb engine when we set the mixture, nothing changes as the amount of fuel which goes in is fixed no matter how hot or cold is outside. On EFI it changes all day long with the temperature. So the fuel amount varies accordingly and specially when it's getting colder, it feeds more.

EFI systems are not known for their fuel efficiency but for reliability and power it can deliver. If you do a bit of search then you will come to know that in past if you compare some Jap bikes which earlier had carbs and fitted with EFI afterwards, had less fuel efficiency and in some cases power decreased as well.

So in my case, the mapping is incorrect as it was meant for colder conditions(more colder then the temp in North India). Hence the drop in average due to temp dropping day by day in Punjab. Thats what I can make out of dropped fuel efficiency on my 500.
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Old 24th December 2009, 16:42   #908
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randhawa View Post
I don't mind going for WOT but for that I need a set of three plugs to start with(not compulsory but preferred) and the plugs are not available with the RE dealer or the Bosh dealer at the moment.

So what jet size up you are using now as your main?. As you are not much bothered by the average so I think you are running a healthy engine which is going to last longer then the engine with stock jet.
I'm running a free flow muffler as well as free flow K&N pod. I'm using a 20 pilot and a 140 main jet in Bangalore. Try to change to conventional NGKs. In my case, my LB500 became smoother with better throttle response with the NGK conventional plug.

Cheers,

Jay
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Old 24th December 2009, 18:13   #909
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According to them, it's due to the mapping done for international market with Lamda sensor and same being used for domestic market without Lamda sensor. Which has different operating conditions and thus the problem on all the CL500 across India. At the moment RE has called up a team from Italy who has done mapping and a remap for CL500 is in progress and the problem is being looked into. I am not sure how they are going to remap all the cl500 all ready sold.

My previous statement edited

Somehow I misunderstood the Engineers what they said about the rich mixture issue as I met them again regarding some other things so got the facts right this time. My bad.

They did the mapping according to Indian conditions and tried/tested it. There were no problems in the initial stage. Only now they are facing the rich mixture issue on CL500 sold so far. Currently R&D department is working on this issue as to what is causing the rich fuel mixture.

@Jay - Any suggestion on what plugs I could go for in NGK range? I need a twin spark plug though.

Also if you could shed some light on availability of K&N Crank breather filter in Pune. There aren't any places down here where I could source one so need your help on that.

Last edited by Randhawa : 24th December 2009 at 18:19.
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Old 25th December 2009, 01:49   #910
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Hey Randhwa,

Are you from Pune? Who gave you all these details regarding fuel mixture and all?
Also, are you or any other CL500 owner facing issues with the chain noise while riding with pillion? It makes kad-kad noise over speed breaker and pot holes.

I had called RE regarding the same and they said that they are going to replace chain cover on all classic as it's a manufacturing defect.
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Old 25th December 2009, 09:58   #911
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Nope I am not from Pune. Yes the noise is there but it's just mis aligned chain cover. Get it aligned or it will scratch your rear shock and paint off the chassis. I am surprised that your has not been changed so far. Mine was changed within a week. Although the new one has a fault as well but you might not notice it. The new one will give you problem only with a pillion rider on humps, the chain cover touches the plastic intake on the air filter box. I have put the issue across to the engineers.

Curiosity made me get all the information on the bike
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Old 25th December 2009, 13:49   #912
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randhawa View Post
Nope I am not from Pune. Yes the noise is there but it's just mis aligned chain cover. Get it aligned or it will scratch your rear shock and paint off the chassis. I am surprised that your has not been changed so far. Mine was changed within a week. Although the new one has a fault as well but you might not notice it. The new one will give you problem only with a pillion rider on humps, the chain cover touches the plastic intake on the air filter box. I have put the issue across to the engineers.

Curiosity made me get all the information on the bike
Randhawa,

If the CL500 uses the same plugs as the UCE350/TBTS, these are the part nos for the Conventional, platinum and Iridium respectively: BPR5ES / CPR7EA-9, CPR7EAGP-9 and CPR7EAIX-9. Please check your plug# in the manual and see whether the it runs the Bosch W5DC and UR5DC. If it does, the aforementioned NGK plugs are perfect. If not, NGK India doesn't list the plugs for the CL500 yet. Meanwhile, this is a useful utility on the NGK India website-> http://www.ngkntk.in/two_wheelers.php


Cheers,

Jay

Last edited by JayPrashanth : 25th December 2009 at 13:50.
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Old 25th December 2009, 21:11   #913
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Thanks Jay. I went to the workshop today to get my ECU checked for any fault codes. Came up clean. Had a chat with the R&D guy from Chennai. Got lot of things cleared about the rich mix issue. Now it turns out to be no problem of rich mix issue. According to the guy, black plugs are turning out only in North India. That is due to the temperature level of the plugs. In south the CL500 have clean plugs and only in North the plugs are turning out black. It's due to the cold weather out here dropping below 10 at nights. CL500 for international market are supplied with NGK but the distributors didn't wanted the NGk so they are being supplied with the same BOSCH plugs as in mine. The international market has no issues so far due to the right temp range of the plugs for their climate.

So in short my problem is the wrong temp range plugs, the one at present is meant for warmer climate so what I need is the cold temp plugs. The guy did mentioned about RE using the NGK plugs but as they are talking to the BOSCH & NGK to come up with the right plugs for now. I will get a answer about right no for NGK plugs in a week, once the guy reports back from Chennai.

My manual says
Bosch Super WR7DDC
Bosch Super UR5DC

I think I have to wait for the call to get the NGK no. As they are already supplied CL500 with those plugs.
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Old 25th December 2009, 21:58   #914
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Randhawa,

What puzzles me is that you will be running lean if the temperature falls, not rich. So, in the case, all the CL500s sold in the northern regions of our country should run lean, not rich. So that theory sounds a little misplaced in this case. What is the mean sea level of your location? CL500s sold in Bangalore are running lean. This is with a mean sea level of 3000ft. So, if you are maybe 1000ft higher, the current mapping could result in you bull running rich. Having said that, altitude effects jetting to a large extent. My 150 main jet worked in Pune while I had a fluttering top end in Bangalore by running too rich. So I had to shift to a 140. About the heat range of the plug, that really doesn't change take the climate into account. It is more to do with the temperature inside the combustion chamber than climate. RE have skimped on the lambda sensor to keep costs low in India and this seems to have backfired. In UK and the US of A too, temperatures resemble that of North India's but the big difference IMHO is the lambda sensor. Anyway, If your bull is running right, don't worry too much about this. Go out and just enjoy the ride.

Cheers,

Jau
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Old 25th December 2009, 23:10   #915
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I think we will get more puzzled by going into to much details. With the colder plugs the temp range is less, I mean its optimum firing is at low temp. Which will work well when the engine temp is less. So if I have a plug which is in between the hot and cold range, then it would be more suitable then the rest or I should have one for summers and one for winters. Lets see what RE comes up within two weeks.


Yeah I know what you mean by the lamda sensor not present . We discussed about it as well. You are right about the reason its not on Indian bikes and hence the problems.
I dont have any issues with the bull now except some paint issues. Oil leak is sorted so enjoying my ride for now.

Thanks

Last edited by Randhawa : 25th December 2009 at 23:11.
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