Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > Motorbikes


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 8th January 2010, 19:21   #946
Senior - BHPian
 
Randhawa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Brighton
Posts: 1,127
Thanked: 256 Times
Default

@Easyyousee- Actually nothing wrong with the map as I posted earlier but the black smoke issue is due to the plugs. We need cold plugs and what we have now is hot plugs not suitable for cold climate.

Engineers from Chennai went to Jalandhar today and coming to Chandigarh tomorrow to check the CL500 for the black smoke issue. I have been told that they will be opening up the timing gear for some inspection related to black smoke issue. I will get a better picture tomorrow after my cl500 goes for inspection.

@Ghettomax- Your dealer might be telling the truth but I haven't heard the same down here.
Randhawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th January 2010, 05:16   #947
BHPian
 
GhettoMAX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 55
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randhawa View Post
@Easyyousee- Actually nothing wrong with the map as I posted earlier but the black smoke issue is due to the plugs. We need cold plugs and what we have now is hot plugs not suitable for cold climate.

Engineers from Chennai went to Jalandhar today and coming to Chandigarh tomorrow to check the CL500 for the black smoke issue. I have been told that they will be opening up the timing gear for some inspection related to black smoke issue. I will get a better picture tomorrow after my cl500 goes for inspection.

@Ghettomax- Your dealer might be telling the truth but I haven't heard the same down here.
Randhawa bhaji I have been following your posts in this thread and it seems that the CL500 has been quite an adventure thus far, do you feel the CL500 is ready for prime time?

Still no word from Jalandhar regarding my CL500, I spoke with Navyug Motors rep last evening and he was explaining that the delay in delivery was due to some Company Audit being conducted. He said that it wasn't just my bike but many others that were effected.

GhettoMAX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th January 2010, 09:18   #948
BHPian
 
indian21r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 733
Thanked: 262 Times
Default

@GhettoMAX
I have been waiting for delivery since 14th december. They kept on delaying. Well I am still waiting for it. Anyway Nilesh has assured me delivery on 21st jan, I am going to gift myself a bull for my birthday

@Randhawa,
I would also love to hear an update the issue you are facing. Will the new deliveries have these issues sorted out even we will have to get them done when getting the first service. Also are there any new problems.

also did any of u guys find helmet colors closer to the green bullet color. I found a matte military green one, but looking for something more closer to the bike shade. What other gear is needed with the bullet? I guess we can have a separate thread on the issue. The riding gear thread covers most of the gear suited to sports models.
indian21r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th January 2010, 09:25   #949
BHPian
 
josepeter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 415
Thanked: 547 Times
Default

I test drove the classic 500 yesterday! Blew my socks off! After having lived with a machismo 350 for 10 years; this thing felt like a rocket.. Kudos to RE for making such a fabulous bike.

But alas...I cant afford to get the classic 500 now...have to save every penny for the 883
josepeter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th January 2010, 21:26   #950
Senior - BHPian
 
Randhawa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Brighton
Posts: 1,127
Thanked: 256 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GhettoMAX View Post
Randhawa bhaji I have been following your posts in this thread and it seems that the CL500 has been quite an adventure thus far, do you feel the CL500 is ready for prime time?

Still no word from Jalandhar regarding my CL500, I spoke with Navyug Motors rep last evening and he was explaining that the delay in delivery was due to some Company Audit being conducted. He said that it wasn't just my bike but many others that were effected.

To be honest, I think people should wait for few months. Reason-There are some design flaws which I had mentioned to RE with complete pictorial details and temporary and permanent solutions to it(tried my 1cent anyway) and if I believe the Regional Service Manager, my email got circulated among their management and was viewed by all at their board meeting. Currently they are working on it. You wont believe that their management was not aware of classic's delivered with TBTS tool kit until some lad from Delhi(own up, who was it?) and me+local RE service Engineer sat together and made a list of missing and incorrect tool list, informed RE. Only then the management found out but at the same time the tool kit was being manufactured now they are providing the missing tools to the CL owners. I will get mine tomorrow.

As to your delivery, your dealer has most probably told you crap. Confirmed it from RE today and it's not the case. They did had their audit for 8days and finished on 1st Jan which did not effect the delivery schedule. People did got their bikes before and after 1Jan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by indian21r View Post
@GhettoMAX

@Randhawa,
I would also love to hear an update the issue you are facing. Will the new deliveries have these issues sorted out even we will have to get them done when getting the first service. Also are there any new problems.


.
My issue stands as it is. New deliveries have the same issues. I have two more new problems, piston knock and primary chain tensioner. Some issues are mere cosmetic and some not life threatening but could effect the engine in long run. There are some immediate improvements in pipeline but they are working on it so all we can do is wait.

Last edited by Randhawa : 10th January 2010 at 21:39.
Randhawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th January 2010, 22:03   #951
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Bangalore/Pune
Posts: 1,191
Thanked: 1,556 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randhawa View Post

As to your delivery, your dealer has most probably told you crap. Confirmed it from RE today and it's not the case. They did had their audit for 8days and finished on 1st Jan which did not effect the delivery schedule. People did got their bikes before and after 1Jan.



My issue stands as it is. New deliveries have the same issues. I have two more new problems, piston knock and primary chain tensioner. Some issues are mere cosmetic and some not life threatening but could effect the engine in long run. There are some immediate improvements in pipeline but they are working on it so all we can do is wait.
I am soory to hear that. Piston knock is a very serious engine issue which will drastically reduce your engine life. Is this due to the lean running i have always been harping about? If that is the case, Royal Enfield are paying dearly by skimping on the lambda sensor which they have included in the export models. Till date, as per my knowledge nobody in the American and English forums have complained of piston knock. The main issue in the early batch of the UCE500s(export only) has been that of the third gear's teeth shearing off leading to a gearbox seizure. That was corrected by Royal Enfield immediately by a recall and replacement of the third gear cog.

Cheers,

Jay
JayPrashanth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th January 2010, 22:12   #952
Senior - BHPian
 
Randhawa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Brighton
Posts: 1,127
Thanked: 256 Times
Default

A request to all CL500 owner's down South

Could anyone please state the colour of the plugs (black or normal) with mileage done so far.

Your help is highly appreciated.
Randhawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th January 2010, 22:40   #953
Senior - BHPian
 
Randhawa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Brighton
Posts: 1,127
Thanked: 256 Times
Default

@jay
Do correct me if I am wrong. Basis of my conclusion about the noise-It actually started after 350km on odo now 3500km. When I first showed it to the dealer he believed it was lose chain slap(primary chain) against the cover and once the chain loosens further, the tensioner will adjust it. I actually heard the tensioner getting tight but the noise remained same. On idle, you cant hear it. Only when you accelerate the first half second you can hear it but it disappears with rising rpm and it goes away. I can hear or feel the noise when I move in first gear and upto 4th gear under 50km/hr with easy throttle or should I say partial load is when I hear it most. It's like a muted knock. Under load or hard acceleration it disappears. To be more precise I think it's piston pin knock not to be mistaken by piston slap.

I know some bike engines with high mileage do have it and it can protect the connecting rod getting damaged in high compression engines. But should I be worried? I am loosing my sleep over it now. Now the dealer doesn't want to admit it in front of the Engineers and they are totally ignoring my concern saying it's normal to have that noise.

I dont think it's running lean in any case but running rich is possible.

Last edited by Randhawa : 10th January 2010 at 22:46.
Randhawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th January 2010, 00:09   #954
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Bangalore/Pune
Posts: 1,191
Thanked: 1,556 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randhawa View Post
A request to all CL500 owner's down South

Could anyone please state the colour of the plugs (black or normal) with mileage done so far.

Your help is highly appreciated.
I can attest to the fact about the plugs being bone white, here in Bangalore. You must have heard of Ron Chinoy, the legendary RD tuner and the owner of rddreams.com. He has a CL500 and he recently pulled out his plug to see it being bone white. CL500s in Bangalore are running lean and this is at 962 meters above sea level. That said, he hasn't complained of knocking so far.

Cheers,

Jay
JayPrashanth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th January 2010, 00:18   #955
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Bangalore/Pune
Posts: 1,191
Thanked: 1,556 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randhawa View Post
@jay
Do correct me if I am wrong. Basis of my conclusion about the noise-It actually started after 350km on odo now 3500km. When I first showed it to the dealer he believed it was lose chain slap(primary chain) against the cover and once the chain loosens further, the tensioner will adjust it. I actually heard the tensioner getting tight but the noise remained same. On idle, you cant hear it. Only when you accelerate the first half second you can hear it but it disappears with rising rpm and it goes away. I can hear or feel the noise when I move in first gear and upto 4th gear under 50km/hr with easy throttle or should I say partial load is when I hear it most. It's like a muted knock. Under load or hard acceleration it disappears. To be more precise I think it's piston pin knock not to be mistaken by piston slap.

I know some bike engines with high mileage do have it and it can protect the connecting rod getting damaged in high compression engines. But should I be worried? I am loosing my sleep over it now. Now the dealer doesn't want to admit it in front of the Engineers and they are totally ignoring my concern saying it's normal to have that noise.

I dont think it's running lean in any case but running rich is possible.
Randhawa,

I wouldn't jump the gun and call it knocking as it could be valve clatter that you might be hearing. However, you will know knocking when you hear it. It goes something like this, the sharp rattling sound that comes in an engine when you accelerate in a high gear at a low speed is knocking. For example, accelerating in fifth gear at 20 Kph will result in knocking. Meanwhile, I also was paranoid about my LB500's engine note when I first bought it. The knocking I was worried about turned out to be normal valve clatter. That said, any engine with the gudgeon pin loose won't last long. Don't lose your sleep over it. It may very well be the case of you accelerating in a high gear at low speed. Try varying your shift speeds by +5Kph and then try to hear the noise.

Cheers,

Jay
JayPrashanth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th January 2010, 11:50   #956
BHPian
 
indian21r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 733
Thanked: 262 Times
Default

The news is a little unsettling Randhawa. But looks like the problem is more in the colder climate for now. I will wait to hear inputs from down south. And I hope RE will rectify it with retrospective effect in all the vehicles sold

Whatever it is the Bull will be added to my garage. I need wheels really urgent
indian21r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2010, 14:06   #957
Senior - BHPian
 
Randhawa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Brighton
Posts: 1,127
Thanked: 256 Times
Default

@Jay
I know what you mean but it's neither valve clatter nor the kind of knocking usually associated with bigger gear and low speed. You can hear the noise in the video I posted earlier, just about when I accelerate it comes within one second and goes away with sudden increase of rpm(might sound like a rattle). If the engine gives problem after 10k then I will be stuck with a white elephant.

At what speeds/rev range did you had the valve clatter? There are not many Cl500 in Chandigarh with more then 500km so I cant compare. Mine is at the workshop since sunday due to the chain tensioner tightening the chain too much, need a replacement. Why me Now got to wait for a tiny part to come all the way from Chennai.

It's shame that RE didn't provided dealers with such a tiny part with the initial part's kit. Although the workshop should have it anyways due to TBTS. But they had never replaced that part even in the TBTS so I am a special one.

A not so common problem I am seeing on the CL5 is the fuel level indicator malfunctioning. Seen three bikes with the same problem so far. Poor quality parts I think.

If you say that Ron had white plugs on inspection then surely it's a mapping issue for us in North. With some new updates from RE, they are monitoring some CL5 with new cold plugs here but the blackening of plugs has reduced slightly. So its surely related to cold and mapping issue.

Ok, what if I unplug the Temp sensor wire and drive without it. What values would the ECU take to run the engine. Would it provide a lean or rich MIxture?
Randhawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2010, 19:49   #958
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Bangalore/Pune
Posts: 1,191
Thanked: 1,556 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randhawa View Post
@Jay
I know what you mean but it's neither valve clatter nor the kind of knocking usually associated with bigger gear and low speed. You can hear the noise in the video I posted earlier, just about when I accelerate it comes within one second and goes away with sudden increase of rpm(might sound like a rattle). If the engine gives problem after 10k then I will be stuck with a white elephant.

Slightly looser pushrods might be the culprit here but I am just guessing here. Because in bullets with loose pushrods, there is a slight clatter which can be mistaken for knocking just when you accelerate.

At what speeds/rev range did you had the valve clatter? There are not many Cl500 in Chandigarh with more then 500km so I cant compare. Mine is at the workshop since sunday due to the chain tensioner tightening the chain too much, need a replacement. Why me Now got to wait for a tiny part to come all the way from Chennai.

My valve clatter(more like resonance) used to happen then and even happens now when I maintain constant speed of 70 on the speedo in fifth gear. Before I had distinct clatter while accelerating, especially in first and second gears. Turns out that the one of the valve guide had uneven wear(excessive) causing lateral play when the engine was loaded. I didn't bother going to RE for the warranty. My odo read 5000 at that time. I got the head dismantled at a mech near my place and I took the head myself to the lathe and plonked in new ales. Cost of the total operation turned out less than INR 1000 and I could accomplish the job in about six hours.

It's shame that RE didn't provided dealers with such a tiny part with the initial part's kit. Although the workshop should have it anyways due to TBTS. But they had never replaced that part even in the TBTS so I am a special one.

About the parts not being available, it is the same old story with RE.

A not so common problem I am seeing on the CL5 is the fuel level indicator malfunctioning. Seen three bikes with the same problem so far. Poor quality parts I think.

RE getting the electronics right on the first attempt is next to impossible. But forget it and start listening to your engine. You'll know when you need to fuel up again.

If you say that Ron had white plugs on inspection then surely it's a mapping issue for us in North. With some new updates from RE, they are monitoring some CL5 with new cold plugs here but the blackening of plugs has reduced slightly. So its surely related to cold and mapping issue.

Ok, what if I unplug the Temp sensor wire and drive without it. What values would the ECU take to run the engine. Would it provide a lean or rich MIxture?


I am still not convinced with the plug theory. I still think it is the lambda sensor to blame. What is your MSL and average ambient temperature? If the UCE500 runs lean in Bangalore at 962 above the sea and an average temperature of 30 celsius, it will run leaner at any height lesser than this. I don't have any clue about ECU and the other gadgetry that comes with it. Imho, don't pull out anything. The temperature sensor might be helping you mainly during cold starts and might also prevent overhating. Bhpians with an indepth knowledge aout ECUs may be able to help you.
Meanwhile, where is the video that you had posted earlier?

Cheers,

Jay

Last edited by JayPrashanth : 12th January 2010 at 19:59.
JayPrashanth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2010, 21:49   #959
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Bangalore/Pune
Posts: 1,191
Thanked: 1,556 Times
Default

Randhawa,

Just heard the track of your video. Sounds like mild knocking, someting like a slight starvation of the engine before a richer mixture kicks in. Just as you open your throttle. I suess it can be cured with a rich mix. If you whack the throttle open, does the engine keep up(respond with immediacy). This isn't the rattle/clatter I experienced. Will show your video to somebody more experienced and get back.

Cheers,

Jay
JayPrashanth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2010, 22:47   #960
Senior - BHPian
 
Randhawa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Brighton
Posts: 1,127
Thanked: 256 Times
Default

Chandigarh is around 365MSL and the temp is hovering around 15C. I had a debate with the RE engineers and I wasn't convinced with heir theory. According to them the ecu provides rich mix until the engine temp rises above 45C and after that ratio changes. So the engine is running rich only for few minutes and the plug should be partial black. On continues driving any black residue should wash off and plug should be normal but in my case, it's black all the time and to that they had no answer. I was getting 32km/l in November and now around 23km/l since the cold weather got intense. But the state of the plug remained same throughout.

There is half a second delay when I twist the throttle and the engine responds till the end. The delay is normal in any ecu fitted vehicle so no problems in that area.

I have actually tried several TBTS at the workshop and few of them had the same noise but most of the people are not bothered or not aware of the noise. So it doesn't bother them.

I'll try to post another video specifically focussing on the half second knock.
Randhawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hercules: My Royal Enfield Classic 350! Dodge_Viper Motorbikes 40 9th September 2016 20:28
Honda CBR 250R vs Enfield Classic 500/350 evilmessiah Motorbikes 77 15th February 2016 15:09
Enfield Bullet : Classic 350 versus Classic 500 zaks Motorbikes 173 1st June 2015 18:19
Enfield Classic 350 & 500: Some colour options discontinued vinjosep Motorbikes 1 21st April 2014 11:26


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 09:56.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks