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Old 12th January 2010, 23:18   #961
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Originally Posted by Randhawa View Post
Chandigarh is around 365MSL and the temp is hovering around 15C. I had a debate with the RE engineers and I wasn't convinced with heir theory. According to them the ecu provides rich mix until the engine temp rises above 45C and after that ratio changes. So the engine is running rich only for few minutes and the plug should be partial black. On continues driving any black residue should wash off and plug should be normal but in my case, it's black all the time and to that they had no answer. I was getting 32km/l in November and now around 23km/l since the cold weather got intense. But the state of the plug remained same throughout.

There is half a second delay when I twist the throttle and the engine responds till the end. The delay is normal in any ecu fitted vehicle so no problems in that area.

I have actually tried several TBTS at the workshop and few of them had the same noise but most of the people are not bothered or not aware of the noise. So it doesn't bother them.

I'll try to post another video specifically focussing on the half second knock.
Like I said, this knock is mainly due to the engine starving just as you're trying to open the throttle. Basically the engine is gasping for fuel and then a gush of fuel rushes in this making the engine breathe normally. I'm afraid the fueling is not perfect in spite of the ecu. A higher idle speed and a richer mix should hopefully solve it. And I feel your worrying too much about the knock right now.

About the plug, carbon deposits will brun off but that will happen only at WOT of more than 3/4 throttle when the so called rich mixture you're having leans out. Even five seconds of idle will be enough to produce a black sooty plug. That is why a plug chop is the recommended measure to check the fueling. What you are seeing right now is the air fuel mixture at idle. This can often be at opposing ends with a WOT mixture.

Cheers,

Jay

Last edited by JayPrashanth : 12th January 2010 at 23:21.
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Old 13th January 2010, 03:23   #962
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When RE originally released the Thunderbird, I heard it was plagued with issues. Well, maybe not plagued by RE standards, but things went wrong none the less. IIRC, these first gen thunderbirds continued to give problems as RE didn't resolve the underlying problem with them, but instead addressed it in the TBTS.

My question is, with these reports of issues with the scuffing of forks\fenders, chain guard design and the lack of lambda sensor\inappropriate ecu settings, how does one ascertain that RE has addressed the issues in a specific set of bikes onwards? Is there some sort of press release from the company? Or is it only discovered from ownership reports of newer customers? Or should we expect a new model ala the TBTS rising from the ashes of the original TB?

Also, in the states and UK, RE is proactive about performing recalls\market wide checks once a serious problem has been identified? Does anyone have any idea how RE India handles\plans to handle possible issues with the CL500? For example, if this issue with the combustion mixture is finally narrowed down to the need for a lambda sensor or an ECU remap, would RE India retrofit these on existing customer's vehicles, or just have it rectified in later production batches of the vehicle, in a way saying caveat emptor to the CL500's early adopters?
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Old 13th January 2010, 15:54   #963
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Randhawa,

Some good news for you.

Here is what Chinmay Dangre told me about the video I showed him.

Auto decompressor system, please check the auto decompressor spring and related parts. since there are some issues I found in that system. In this video. i feel the spring is broken inside. This can be checked only by removing the magnet casing. The system is loaded behind the magnet. I don't think this is knocking or pinging.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Jay
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Old 14th January 2010, 23:03   #964
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreaseMonk View Post

My question is, with these reports of issues with the scuffing of forks\fenders, chain guard design and the lack of lambda sensor\inappropriate ecu settings, how does one ascertain that RE has addressed the issues in a specific set of bikes onwards? Is there some sort of press release from the company? Or is it only discovered from ownership reports of newer customers? Or should we expect a new model ala the TBTS rising from the ashes of the original TB?

In India, RE never openly admits to their flaws in design or manufacturing fault. Neither do they do mass recall. As for the issues related to CL, except the chain guard(which the dealers changed it before deliver or the bikes from first lot got theirs changed on first service) nothing has been sorted even in new bikes for now.

As for the fork/sleeve scuffing, its more to do with their quality check or should I say workmanship. Only if they train the employees on how to assemble the sleeves, the issue can simply be resolved but I have heard that they are working on a new design with shorter sleeve. So in 6 months, we will have lot of small improvements in production CL bikes.


Also, in the states and UK, RE is proactive about performing recalls\market wide checks once a serious problem has been identified? Does anyone have any idea how RE India handles\plans to handle possible issues with the CL500? For example, if this issue with the combustion mixture is finally narrowed down to the need for a lambda sensor or an ECU remap, would RE India retrofit these on existing customer's vehicles, or just have it rectified in later production batches of the vehicle, in a way saying caveat emptor to the CL500's early adopters?
I am hoping that they will remap the existing bikes and update the ecu's with new map on bikes. That is if they admit in first place of the rich mix issue. As this issues is only in North so far.It all depends on how or with what they resolve this issue with. But they better do or I'll ask for a refund

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayPrashanth View Post
Randhawa,

Some good news for you.

Here is what Chinmay Dangre told me about the video I showed him.

Auto decompressor system, please check the auto decompressor spring and related parts. since there are some issues I found in that system. In this video. i feel the spring is broken inside. This can be checked only by removing the magnet casing. The system is loaded behind the magnet. I don't think this is knocking or pinging.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Jay
Oh man are you psychic or what. It was the first thing which came into my mind. When I first observed the noise, I tried to listen to it and pin point it. I can hear the knock more from the kick side(RHS). I had another things in mind was the hydraulic pushrod adjuster. The noise is more prominent in the middle of the block but to check that I have to undo the head which I really don't want to do for now. After opening, only then the adjuster can be accessed. To check the auto decomp which is actually located inside the exhaust cam gear, magneto has to be removed and you are right on that.

Another weird thing is that when my bike is on the side stand for more then 15minutes, after rolling it again the noise gets more prominent. Thus I thought that the culprit could be the adjuster(oil shifting banks)+auto decomp.

I'll surely get the decomp checked once I confirm if they have a new one. Got my bike back today after 4 days so don't want to take a chance of my bike staying at the workshop again waiting for the parts.

By the way, thanks for all the tips. Really appreciated. I will do the plug chop once I get a spare plug.
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Old 15th January 2010, 01:13   #965
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@Randhawa: Thank you for your detailed response. After going through the discussions on the enfieldmotorcycles forum I was pretty pumped to get this bike. But 1.5L is a lot of money for a bike where one is constantly worried that RE will wash its hands off of a couple of months after I buy it.
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Old 15th January 2010, 09:13   #966
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Hello Everyone,

I have been tracking this forum every since its inception. I finally got my Classic Maroon 500 couple of days back after 2 months of wait. Put on 250km yesterday! feels n rides great ! But as many had complained in this forum about the seat, after 25km on ride, your butt starts to get uncomfy so u begin to relocate lil bit about the given area for some relief and after 50km, u really need a break off that seat !
Basically myself on my CL500 and my bro on his new TBTS went on the ride. I drove the TBTS initially and then swapped with my CL500 later..both felt the seat comfiness on TBTS a lot better than CL500..On the contrary the handling, pull, feel of the bike was definitely better in CL500. For longer rides, its mandatory to change the seat!

Now I would appreciate it, if some bullet veterans can help me out with some feedback on the CL500. I was told to keep the speed limit between 50-60km for the first 3000km. I was under the impression this range would suffice for the first 500km. I somehow could keep my limit only at 70km constant so far. So when can I say bye bye to the Speedometer?

Again to put on a pair of Roots horn like I had on my ex 1997 bullet Machismo 500, the dealer expressed a concern as the CL500 is optimized using the ECU for all the electrical requirements and any change in the supply might inherently stall the engine. Did anyone put on extra horns on the CL500? Any comments or feedback on this would be great.

Thanks.
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Old 15th January 2010, 15:31   #967
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Did anyone put on extra horns on the CL500? Any comments or feedback on this would be great.

Thanks.
Yes, please check the link below for the mods that have been carried out on a CL500. You can pm the owner of that post for more details.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motorb...please-26.html (All T-BHP Royal Enfield Owners- Your Bike Pics here Please)
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Old 16th January 2010, 20:42   #968
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The buzzing noise came back after 60km and thanks to the previously broken chain tensioner, primary chain is kaput now. Need to wait for five more days for the chain, tensioner and pad.:(
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Old 16th January 2010, 22:38   #969
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A couple of months ago I was kicking myself that I had missed the chance of getting a CL500/350 by purchasing a TBTS in early 2009. After reading about all the problems of the new machines, I am now thanking my stars!

Really, I cannot understand RE. To introduce different new models in the same price range (TBTS/CL350) in the the same year is just plain stupid. A perfectly good model, the TBTS, got completely overshadowed by the later released Classics.
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Old 16th January 2010, 23:42   #970
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Just count your stars All the problems I had so far are just few compared to TBTS although I do believe that most of them had been resolved in later models. Met a guy today who had his TBTS engine changed twice(complete engine) and his new chassis is on its way from Chennai. Next time you visit your RE workshop, just ask for some short stories from the mechanics about TBTS.

@anuparjun
Be very afraid of the person who told you to ride your bike for 3k under 60km/hr. Just read your manual carefully. If you don't want your bull to be like a rattle snake at later stage then you better hold your horses till 2000km although after 500km you can do some short bursts and cruise between 80-90km/hr.

Last edited by Randhawa : 16th January 2010 at 23:53.
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Old 16th January 2010, 23:58   #971
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Quote:
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Just count your stars All the problems I had so far are just few compared to TBTS although I do believe that most of them had been resolved in later models.
Yes, I have heard that the older TB's had some problems. But with the latest one (the TBTS), I haven't heard of any chronic problems. In my own case, 11 months, 9000+ km, damage till date: one broken clutch cable, and one broken oil seal. But I am keeping my fingers crossed!
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Old 18th January 2010, 18:34   #972
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Hey I just confirmed with RE that I will get my Bike delivered finally on 21st january

By the way I was told a new thing today, for non mumbai passports we are supposed to give additional Rs.1500. What the hell is this trash. I am giving a rent agreement , a passport and a pan card everything. Still they need to be bribed? why? Is it not enough that they charge octroi.

Did anyone else face this issue
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Old 18th January 2010, 20:03   #973
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Inform RE through the customer support and if they admit to it then pay or else its just load of crap.
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Old 18th January 2010, 21:40   #974
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No Clue. As of now first priority is to get the bull. Too long a wait. After I take the delivery of the bike I will see what to do.

by the way I spoke to some technical guy from chennai today about the tappet noise. He said that they have seen it in cold conditions but once the engines gets heated he is saying the issue is not present. This is not knocking , he is clear on that so don't worry too much about it

in between what are the key things to look at during PDI ??
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Old 18th January 2010, 21:45   #975
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Hey, rightly put. That definitely is a load of crap. When I last enquired about it at brand store in Bandra they said it would cost 1000 for non mumbai passport and at the same time Soniya RE showroom Bhandup said it would be about 700 bucks. This is crazy!!
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