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Old 16th October 2008, 15:48   #106
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Default Please listen, Mr Spitfire!

Mr. Spitfire - you have quite an apt name there and you also seem to be a pretty rigid about your views. You ought to know that no one in this world knows everything about everything and that you always learn something all the time. And this 'something new' can be learnt from anybody provided you have an open mind.

It is an open well-known fact that a Bullet is not a bike - IT IS A CULT. Whatever you might say about its quality, poor spares etc. etc. but you bond with the machine...You love to take care of it; to spend time with it - this time may be spent in washing, cleaning, polishing and what not; or even maybe a visit to the garage. It is this care that you take of the 'beast' which is then reciprocated by the machine - in that it never lets you down, never lets you stranded. It's not owned - it's possessed; I am borrowing this punchline from the TATA SIERRA which incidentally is again talked about in a similar vein. But you got to ask people who 'possess' a Bullet or a Sierra - what it means to them...Probably you are not 'made to understand'.

And before you aim your guns at me, let me clarify - I neither own a Bullet nor intend to (as of now). I have an RX100 (and a SIERRA )
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Old 16th October 2008, 15:52   #107
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I always prefer buying second hand cars and first hand motorbikes.
The breakin period for a motorcycle in my humble opinion is very very important. My bike although 70k done is still ridden as if its break-in is going on.
This does not mean I ride slow but rather that I take care on how the speed is built up.

I ride on an almost daily basis. For the entire duration of the ride I pay close attention to any change in the bike. Be it sound, vibration and what not.
When the bike is being cleaned I shake and check eveyrthing to make sure its fitting perfect.

Once while riding back from b'lore I was doing some good speeds. Did about 380 kms in under 4 and a half hours. But I still caught a change in sound. Found that a loose screw in my front mud guard had torn a quarter inch deep line in my front tire.

A bullet demands very little of you as a rider. But she demands a lot more from you as a friend. She needs to be nutured and taken care of. If your friend had paid attention while cleaning the his tbird he would have found that the fork seal was getting loose. But still its quite possible that the PDI check was not done well by the dealer and also the factory. Some designs in the early tbird were plain stupid. For Example the rear stays. Even a novice with bare bones knowledge of engineering would see that the design was wrong. The stays have no choice but to break under a sustained weight and bumpy road combination.

I however have one take on the Bullet.
RE as a company that it is today does not deserve the Bullet.

While I love the bike and cannot consider anything else, the company makes me very sad.
But what else can be had from a company that has its top honcho ride the bike in a stupid commercial. (The train one).

Spitfire: Lets drop this argument. This thread is about a new bike and let it stay for it alone.
As my old manager and very good friend used to say. bullet chalata hai thoda sanki to haga hi.

Last edited by bblost : 16th October 2008 at 15:53.
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Old 16th October 2008, 16:02   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
@AC: Then tell me the reason? The search for the unknown excites me. Those of you who have been enlightened please do share it.

Some said buy a bullet and live with it - you will understand.

I did just that. First got a 99 Model Standard 350(used buy) - did not get it. The bike kept failing - replaced parts worth 35k for a bike which i got for 20K. No problems there because i wanted to know.

So i went back to the Bullet riders as you call them and seeked enlightment - they said you got a abused piece.

I said fine, got a fresh from the factory 350 Standard. Why 350 Standard you may ask? because i was told by the Bullet riders that this is the model that is the real Bullet(duh?). Ok. You are the expert here. My friend got a 500. And then another guy bought a T-Bird. I am from Goa, just so you know.

Same problems again. The oil seal on the front fork came off on my friends t bird, the oil dripped out and spoiled his springs. Oil leaking from the Std head - gasket replaced. All within the first 15-20 days.

The rest was like reliving the horrors of the 99 model Bullet i had earlier.

So we fortify us in the fact that they survived for 50 years with this substandard quality so we plonk down our hard owned money on it without asking any questions? duh? What do i say?
@ Spitfire: This is a pure case of 'dude I have had a bad experience' and i don't care a rats backside if its the bullet thing or whatever. . . it doesn't work for me.

I own a 1978 bull. I have got the engine done twice in the last 4 years. But i love it. I Love the feeling i get whenever I ride it. I love the sense of 'upgrade' i get when i ride this bulll

I love the sense of 'heritage', i feel I am riding a oldshcool brit bike which is very charming (yes painfull too), I feel that every ride is an occasion on this bull. I Feel a sense of 'can go anywhere anytime' on this bull. I can list down many such intagibles.

But if you go purely on tangibles, I am with you, the bull has problems, but those problems have never deterred me or any pure bull lover to give her up.

Cheers,
AC
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Old 16th October 2008, 16:14   #109
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Now we are getting somewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bblost View Post
The breakin period for a motorcycle in my humble opinion is very very important. My bike although 70k done is still ridden as if its break-in is going on.
This does not mean I ride slow but rather that I take care on how the speed is built up.
I know how to run in a bike, have been a biker for the last 10 years, since i got my license. My dad also had a good number of bikes which he used to maintain all my himself - he was a banker though. So yes i know how to use a bike.

Quote:
I ride on an almost daily basis. For the entire duration of the ride I pay close attention to any change in the bike. Be it sound, vibration and what not.
When the bike is being cleaned I shake and check eveyrthing to make sure its fitting perfect.
Why? because you know something might might fall off just like that right? Not arguing the point that you check, good thing to do. Problem is you know it might fail.

Quote:
Once while riding back from b'lore I was doing some good speeds. Did about 380 kms in under 4 and a half hours. But I still caught a change in sound. Found that a loose screw in my front mud guard had torn a quarter inch deep line in my front tire.
What if i was wearing a full face helmet(which makes it difficult to hear some loud sounds too)? A serious quality issue could have potentially taken my life. A loose screw can do that on a Bullet? - horrendous i should say. I had much smaller problems compared to whatyou mentioned and i still saw a problem, you went through that and still dont mind it?

Quote:
A bullet demands very little of you as a rider. But she demands a lot more from you as a friend. She needs to be nutured and taken care of. If your friend had paid attention while cleaning the his tbird he would have found that the fork seal was getting loose. But still its quite possible that the PDI check was not done well by the dealer and also the factory. Some designs in the early tbird were plain stupid.
Check for a loose fork seal on every wash or everyday or every hour? Where does it end? Only fork seal why not rest of the 1000 odd components?

Quote:
For Example the rear stays. Even a novice with bare bones knowledge of engineering would see that the design was wrong. The stays have no choice but to break under a sustained weight and bumpy road combination.
In 50 years they could not rectify it?

Quote:
I however have one take on the Bullet.
RE as a company that it is today does not deserve the Bullet.
Partly what i have been saying all along. And who has to be blamed?
Me who points out the defects or those who dont care and say its a Bullet Thing?

Quote:
While I love the bike and cannot consider anything else, the company makes me very sad.
Dont you as an owner and quite a knowledgeable one try and do something about the bike we all love so much. Instead of taking umbrage under the "Bullet Thing" and turning a blind eye at balant cheating on their part.

Quote:
Spitfire: Lets drop this argument. This thread is about a new bike and let it stay for it alone.As my old manager and very good friend used to say. bullet chalata hai thoda sanki to haga hi.
New bike? where? for us? Is it in India? Isnt this new bike a joke for us Indians. I hate this attitude of RE towards Indian customers. This is one reason i would never buy the Bullet again forget about the substandard product.

Arre yaar thoda pagal to mai bhi hu - cant you make out my passion for the Bullet. Look at the number of posts i have made till now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ac 427 View Post
@ Spitfire: This is a pure case of 'dude I have had a bad experience' and i don't care a rats backside if its the bullet thing or whatever. . . it doesn't work for me.
I care i wouldnt have sat and written so many posts about it. Shown my finger and walked off like any other Bullet hater. I am not one. Get the essence of my posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by asejwal View Post
It's not owned - it's possessed; I am borrowing this punchline from the TATA SIERRA which incidentally is again talked about in a similar vein.
Ok, what can i say. Tata Sierra is a Cult? What can i say? I am lost. Pardon me. I apologise.

PS: Spitfire is single word, the RAF WWII fighter plane not spit - fire. Because English is a funny language - Yeh hum nahi, yeh to Amitabh Bhai kahat rahe.

Last edited by Spitfire : 16th October 2008 at 16:23.
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Old 16th October 2008, 16:16   #110
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Deleted: Too many replied to too many folks, came up before i finished one.

Last edited by Spitfire : 16th October 2008 at 16:19.
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Old 16th October 2008, 16:33   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
@AC: Then tell me the reason? The search for the unknown excites me. Those of you who have been enlightened please do share it.

Some said buy a bullet and live with it - you will understand.

I did just that. First got a 99 Model Standard 350(used buy) - did not get it. The bike kept failing - replaced parts worth 35k for a bike which i got for 20K. No problems there because i wanted to know.

So i went back to the Bullet riders as you call them and seeked enlightment - they said you got a abused piece.

I said fine, got a fresh from the factory 350 Standard. Why 350 Standard you may ask? because i was told by the Bullet riders that this is the model that is the real Bullet(duh?). Ok. You are the expert here. My friend got a 500. And then another guy bought a T-Bird. I am from Goa, just so you know.

Same problems again. The oil seal on the front fork came off on my friends t bird, the oil dripped out and spoiled his springs. Oil leaking from the Std head - gasket replaced. All within the first 15-20 days.

The rest was like reliving the horrors of the 99 model Bullet i had earlier.

So we fortify us in the fact that they survived for 50 years with this substandard quality so we plonk down our hard owned money on it without asking any questions? duh? What do i say?
WOW within the the first 15-20 days? Did you get a lemon or I guess all bullets are like this


asejwal

Its a cult yes, its an Old company all that is fine. What me, Spitfire and maybe a few others would like to know is when we are paying 1.1laks why arent we getting what we pay for? why cant the company improve its quality and reliability issues?
A bullet can still be a bullet if it doesnt break down or make you visit the mech every sunday right?
Wouldnt more people buy RE bikes if they fix everything? cheers:
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Old 16th October 2008, 16:34   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Now we are getting somewhere.
Thanks

Quote:
I know how to run in a bike, have been a biker for the last 10 years, since i got my license. My dad also had a good number of bikes which he used to maintain all my himself - he was a banker though. So yes i know how to use a bike.
I never mentioned otherwise.

Quote:
Why? because you know something might might fall off just like that right? Not arguing the point that you check, good thing to do. Problem is you know it might fail.
Its not because I know something will fall off. Actually apart from the one instance I mentioned nothing of this sort has ever cropped up in my bike. But I like to pay attention to my surroundings.

Quote:
What if i was wearing a full face helmet(which makes it difficult to hear some loud sounds too)? A serious quality issue could have potentially taken my life. A loose screw can do that on a Bullet? - horrendous i should say. I had much smaller problems compared to whatyou mentioned and i still saw a problem, you went through that and still dont mind it?
I was wearing a full face helmet. Actually except for very short city runs I always wear a full face helmet. For short runs (<15 kms ) I wear an open face helmet.
The screw got loose after 900 kms of highway riding. It has never ever gotten loose since. Things go wrong. So I pay more attention to things like this.

Quote:
Check for a loose fork seal on every wash or everyday or every hour? Where does it end? Only fork seal why not rest of the 1000 odd components?
A failing fork seal would leave a trace of oil over the exposed fork arm.
I keep my bike reasonably clean. This allows me to spot any oil stains where its not expected. Likewise everything gives a lot of indiction before failure. I just anticipate them. If I feel that the chain is not sitting right. I check it. One simple thing I do and advice my other riders to do is to roll the bike with the engine off. The bike in my mind has two major parts. The engine and the cycle parts. The engine tells me of failure by changes in the colour of the exhaust pipe, smoke if any being emitted, the spark plug colour, the vibrationn in the handle bar and so on. The cycle parts talk to me in the form of rattles and subtle noise changes. Over a period of time this has become second nature to me. I dont even notice myself go thru these check points on my own.

Quote:
In 50 years they could not rectify it?
This issue of stays exists only in the early tbirds. Was fixed in the newer ones. The other bullets never had it.

Quote:
Partly what i have been saying all along. And who has to be blamed?
Me who points out the defects or those who dont care and say its a Bullet Thing?

Dont you as an owner and quite a knowledgeable one try and do something about the bike we all love so much. Instead of taking umbrage under the "Bullet Thing" and turning a blind eye at balant cheating on their part.
I am very selfish. Would love the company to go under so that the exclusivity of a bullet become more and more. Just kidding.
You have no idea on my interactions with RE.
As someone who used to moderate the online forum for RE riders in Hyderabad. I have had my share of dealing with them.

Quote:
New bike? where? for us? Is it in India? Isnt this new bike a joke for us Indians. I hate this attitude of RE towards Indian customers. This is one reason i would never buy the Bullet again forget about the substandard product.
I have nothing to add.

Quote:
Arre yaar thoda pagal to mai bhi hu - cant you make out my passion for the Bullet. Look at the number of posts i have made till now.
Good for you. I appreciate the fact that like me you have decided to enjoy rather than suffer insanity.
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Old 16th October 2008, 16:36   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregory View Post
WOW within the the first 15-20 days? Did you get a lemon or I guess all bullets are like this
Dont ask me ask the bullet riders.

Quote:
A bullet can still be a bullet if it doesnt break down or make you visit the mech every sunday right?
Wouldnt more people buy RE bikes if they fix everything? cheers:
Dude a round of beers on me. You got what i ahve been trying to say all along.
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Old 16th October 2008, 16:50   #114
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Default Yes Mr. Spitfire!!!

Yes, my dear, Tata Sierra is a cult...And when you are done with the RE, let us start a new thread about the Sierra.

Your problem is that you are too confused....just look around your city - count the number of REs, Bullets AND OF COURSE THE SIERRAS...this will tell you that they are there because they have something about them and that everyone is not as intelligent as you....

And before you take it as a compliment, let me mention that this was said with a bit of sarcasm...
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Old 16th October 2008, 16:50   #115
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To end my small outburst here and i am happy couple of member here got my point.

Below is my 99 model STD, which till date is still maintained in the same exact condition you see now. This was taken before i sold her off to a good friend.

Ignore the wheels, i was fooled into using those. Got them off later.
Attached Images
  
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Old 16th October 2008, 17:12   #116
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@spitfire: I would have been angry too if I had faced problems with my 1 lac bike. But i have not. And I Do get the essence of your posts. But your post clearly say ' i am not getting emotional' & 'i am rational'. WHich is totally not what the bull is about.

And i agree you got a bad deal TWICE. But I ride a 1978 bullet, and I had troubles maintaining her in the beginning, but after i realized how to properly take care of this giant. Its been smooth sailing through-out.

And about reliability, If am not wrong max no. of bikes on leh-laddakh are bulls. . . it does talk a bit about reliability.

So you have a point, which to bull riders does not work and we have a point which you cant see.

Also I wouldn't mind standing in queue for 2 days to get this bike. (The new bullet classic)

Cheers
AC
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Old 16th October 2008, 17:19   #117
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Spitfire - your Bullet looks very nice but why does it not have the RVMs, crash guard & saree guard?
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Old 16th October 2008, 17:24   #118
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Originally Posted by hrag View Post
Spitfire - your Bullet looks very nice but why does it not have the RVMs, crash guard & saree guard?
The same stupid reason why i have the heavy steel wheels on her.

I was much younger then and a bit crazy.

Thanks for appreciating, i try and maintain all my bikes. I ride a fair bit so think its necessary.

@ac 427: I am still searching for Bullet Niravana, you have attained it. I still need to. Maybe me being rational is a problem but then i was born this way. Now only if RE does something about its QC.

@asejwal: Sir, i am sorry. I apologised before and i apologise again. I will take your sarcasm as pearls of wisdom. I still need to attain your degree of understanding and knowledge. And I am not at all sarcastic i am totally honest about what i wrote above.
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Old 16th October 2008, 18:04   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hrag View Post
Spitfire - your Bullet looks very nice but why does it not have the RVMs, crash guard & saree guard?
I agree with hrag. Other than the wheels the bike looks super. The chrome looks super.

Too bad she gave Spitfire lot of pain.

Cheers,
AC
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Old 16th October 2008, 18:49   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asejwal View Post
Mr. Spitfire - you have quite an apt name there and you also seem to be a pretty rigid about your views. You ought to know that no one in this world knows everything about everything and that you always learn something all the time. And this 'something new' can be learnt from anybody provided you have an open mind.

It is an open well-known fact that a Bullet is not a bike - IT IS A CULT. Whatever you might say about its quality, poor spares etc. etc. but you bond with the machine...You love to take care of it; to spend time with it - this time may be spent in washing, cleaning, polishing and what not; or even maybe a visit to the garage. It is this care that you take of the 'beast' which is then reciprocated by the machine - in that it never lets you down, never lets you stranded. It's not owned - it's possessed; I am borrowing this punchline from the TATA SIERRA which incidentally is again talked about in a similar vein. But you got to ask people who 'possess' a Bullet or a Sierra - what it means to them...Probably you are not 'made to understand'.

And before you aim your guns at me, let me clarify - I neither own a Bullet nor intend to (as of now). I have an RX100 (and a SIERRA )
I must be the luckiest bloke in the whole world. Standing outside my house is a BULLET and a SIERRA.

The SIERRA is all about image. It gives you the status that a vehicle ten times its price commands. Its absolutely brilliant to drive. Just the right length to suit city driving and its an absolute blast on the highway. No body roll at all. The rear bay windows give the rear seat occupants an awesome view of the countryside. Mileage is alos good because of less weight and its diesel.

The BULLET is also awesome. You have to ride it in pouring rain to appreciate its stability. The way autorickshaw and cab drivers respect you when you ride the BULLET can only be experienced. I come home at midnight, doing lonely stretches of tarmac, but no thief comes near thinking if it is a BULLET, chances are the guy is a cop
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