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Old 16th October 2008, 18:50   #121
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Hi all,

Been following the discussions. Thought will add my bit.

Bullets have leaking head, noisy engine, tappet makes horrible noice, chain loosens, brakes are bad, fork oil leaks, etc..

But these things does not worry the owner. He has taken it for granted, the bullet has to be this way. Over and above they love the bullets more than their lives. If I am exaggerating.

I have been riding two wheelers since, 25 years. Started with Yezdi 175 for 5 years, 12 years of Suzuki Samurai ad now for 2 years been riding 500 cc Classic Bullet. I rate the quality of ride in bullet high. May be that is too personal opinion.

I was on ride to Ladakh during this June month on 3300 kms expedition along with 2 more bullets 350 cc. Because of its power, stability and consistancy, we overcame almost all hurdles, which other modern bikes struggled.

RE is ladden with oldwigs in the factory. You know, more experienced the person, more adament he is to change. CEO is young and trying his best to revive. I think if you have seen the RE closely from begining. They never changed their overview on market and models. New perspective came in with the launch of Thunderbird. Now the twin spark TB and changes in gear system, all aluminium engines, disk brakes, self starters, etc.

Mine is 2006 model of 500 cc classic (Cast Iron block). It does not leak anywhere. It is a stable vehicle at 120 -130 kmph speed. Which bike in India gives this kind of performance. Modern bikes start shuddering at 80 kmph.

Spitfire, your machine was good looking. You could have held on to it. That's my opinion.

Dwarak
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Old 16th October 2008, 18:57   #122
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I was planning to buy a bike and narrowed down choice to an Electra 5S and a FZ16.
All your talk is scaring me away from the Electra.
Lurker,

Electra 5 S is good and improved version. If you are making this a choice you would not regret.

Dwarak
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Old 16th October 2008, 19:13   #123
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Very balanced view. But then you slip into the Bullet Thing Umbrage. Why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwaraka View Post
Bullets have leaking head, noisy engine, tappet makes horrible noice, chain loosens, brakes are bad, fork oil leaks, etc..

But these things does not worry the owner. He has taken it for granted, the bullet has to be this way. Over and above they love the bullets more than their lives. If I am exaggerating.
Why? Why take it for granted? is asking for better quality a sin? discarding the bullet because it keeps breaking down makes you a "you didnt get the Bullet Thing" dope. What am i smoking then?

Quote:
I have been riding two wheelers since, 25 years. Started with Yezdi 175 for 5 years, 12 years of Suzuki Samurai ad now for 2 years been riding 500 cc Classic Bullet. I rate the quality of ride in bullet high. May be that is too personal opinion.
Respect, 25 years is quite a time and thats why i came back to reply to your post.

Quote:
I was on ride to Ladakh during this June month on 3300 kms expedition along with 2 more bullets 350 cc. Because of its power, stability and consistancy, we overcame almost all hurdles, which other modern bikes struggled.
Pardon me but this oft repeated ride to Ladakh and Leh justification is a little long in the tooth. If the Bullet has done it successfully so has a lambretta, a kinetic Honda, a Splendour, a Hero Ranger(yes the human powered ones) probably every 2 wheeler manufactured in India. And i am also sure that each of the above brands have failed to make it too. Dont tell me whenever a Bullet has been taken up there it never failed.

Tell me one brand of 2 wheeler which will not do that trip? Proves nothing to me about the Bullets reliability. Sorry.

Quote:
RE is ladden with oldwigs in the factory. You know, more experienced the person, more adament he is to change.
Again i dont get the argument. Old so they resist? What the?

So you keep churning sub standard product just because you have over the hill employees whom you cant fire even after they dont know what quality is? Absurd? You tell me?

Quote:
CEO is young and trying his best to revive.
He is smart. Period. Dont equate his business acumen to his love for the Bullet. His speeches and riding withstanding.

Quote:
I think if you have seen the RE closely from begining. They never changed their overview on market and models. New perspective came in with the launch of Thunderbird. Now the twin spark TB and changes in gear system, all aluminium engines, disk brakes, self starters, etc.
My issue is quality not the tech. Tech is available freely. No great shakes to get new technology on your bikes. Only issue it raises the price - but then this is a Bullet, a niche, high priced product already. So why?

Quote:
Mine is 2006 model of 500 cc classic (Cast Iron block). It does not leak anywhere. It is a stable vehicle at 120 -130 kmph speed.
Nice.

Quote:
Which bike in India gives this kind of performance. Modern bikes start shuddering at 80 kmph.
Again lets not get into comparisons - too many things come into the picture. Lets talk purely inside the Bullet space.

Quote:
Spitfire, your machine was good looking. You could have held on to it. That's my opinion.
Thanks Dwarak for appreciating the bike. Yes i do maintain my bikes well and all by myself. And yes i could have held on to it. But i didnt and thats why my posts on this topic.

PS: Good to see folks looking at the rational part too.
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Old 16th October 2008, 19:27   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwaraka View Post
Mine is 2006 model of 500 cc classic (Cast Iron block). It does not leak anywhere. It is a stable vehicle at 120 -130 kmph speed. Which bike in India gives this kind of performance. Modern bikes start shuddering at 80 kmph.
Only because you asked.

My Karizma is also stable at 135kmph. I don't think any modern bikes shudders at 80kmph, except the econo-commuter variety. My pal's RTR is also stable at 110 plus speeds.
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Old 16th October 2008, 19:49   #125
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Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
Only because you asked.

My Karizma is also stable at 135kmph. I don't think any modern bikes shudders at 80kmph, except the econo-commuter variety. My pal's RTR is also stable at 110 plus speeds.

Sankar, I stand corrected for my views. New generation bikes are tough too.

Dwarak
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Old 16th October 2008, 20:03   #126
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Spitfire,

As the name denote we see lot of fire in you.

When one has already formed a negative attitude towards a subject, we can expect only negate remarks and arguments. I am sorry for being too personal.

at RE it is a transition. Change do not take place overnight which will be opposed by trade unions. Old wigs have to be replaced with newer breed and thus the quality approach can take place. Hire and Fire policy is not very popular in India yet, especially in Manufacturing sector. One must be aware, even today the tanks and metal parts golden stripes are hand painted. In today's world no body will indulge in human interface where it can be automated. These are some of the examples.

I think it's time we draw ante bullet discussions. We are becoming biased.

Pardon me for being rude.

Dwarak
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Old 16th October 2008, 21:26   #127
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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Very balanced view. But then you slip into the Bullet Thing Umbrage. Why?
Because that is the reason people buy the bull.

You can buy a fast bike, then you cant buy a fast'er' bike, then you can buy a even more fast'er' bike.

Hope you see the point here.

Cheers,
AC
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Old 16th October 2008, 22:57   #128
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well i guess mr.spitfire, you have got your 40 seconds of fame on this forum and thread by just ensuring that you take a strong exception to enfield. good job.

some people like the bullet and some dont. thats it, period. i dont see need for anyone to shove their ideas and values and principles down anyone's throat. nor there is need to justify or joke about the 1 lakh that some people spend purchasing bullets. its a personal choice, so let us all please allow people who love the bullets to love them and enjoy them.

counter views are welcome because thats one of the purposes of this forum. but let it not be at the cost of ridiculing someone's choice.
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Old 16th October 2008, 23:01   #129
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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
I read your post a couple of times didnt get it mate.

Damned if they do, damned if they dont?

Damned that they price it so high for a sub standard product, damned again for asking so much and still giving a sub standard product.

Sell for 2 lakhs? Reminds me of a fool and his money something something.

And those who dream of an Harley will settle for this? Dreams?

And before you jump on me, i am no Bullet hater. Have used a bullet for atleast 10 years, i am not a part of any Bullet group, neither am i a fanboy of any other product. What i do though is call a spade a spade.
just to be clear, see above where you are ridiculing people who choose a bullet. express your views but do not call others fools, please.
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Old 17th October 2008, 04:46   #130
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Wow!! Wherever there is a topic created on bullets there is a controversy. I guess that is why I love these bikes. Been riding these bikes for quite a while now and have owned and own a few. To my conclusion is that each one of these bikes, albeit from the same factory, has its own personality. It takes some time to understand each of them and then you work out the flaws. At present I own two bullets, 1980 and 1997. The older one has seldom been to the mech whereas the newer one spent most of her time there. I guess I haven't given her much attention.

To each one his own asking. I dont disagree with guys asking for their money's worth but there is only so much money can buy and technology can do. You can never rationalize with a bulletier (don't ask me why, I dont seem to get that point with me too).

I love two marque of motorcycles, the Jawa/Yezdi and RE, and I own 5 and 2 of them respectively. Although many point out the flaws to me on these bikes, I just tell them one thing "Its the imperfection that makes them perfect to me." I really dont want a fill it, shut it, forget it bike; I might really forget it then. One day I will have the money to afford the most technologically advanced motorcycle in the world but I dont know if I would have the same passion toward it.

Back to the main topic. The Bullet Classic 500 looks phenomenal. I must really applaude the guys behind it. They are tapping the crowd who want old wine in a new bottle or should I rather say new wine in an old bottle

-pat-
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Old 17th October 2008, 10:11   #131
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Originally Posted by TuffRyder View Post

Back to the main topic. The Bullet Classic 500 looks phenomenal. I must really applaude the guys behind it. They are tapping the crowd who want old wine in a new bottle or should I rather say new wine in an old bottle

-pat-
Thanks TuffRyder for getting the thread back to where it belongs. We have had enough of ranting about RE and the Bullet.
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Old 17th October 2008, 11:28   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwaraka View Post
Spitfire,

As the name denote we see lot of fire in you.

When one has already formed a negative attitude towards a subject, we can expect only negate remarks and arguments. I am sorry for being too personal.

at RE it is a transition. Change do not take place overnight which will be opposed by trade unions. Old wigs have to be replaced with newer breed and thus the quality approach can take place. Hire and Fire policy is not very popular in India yet, especially in Manufacturing sector. One must be aware, even today the tanks and metal parts golden stripes are hand painted. In today's world no body will indulge in human interface where it can be automated. These are some of the examples.

I think it's time we draw ante bullet discussions. We are becoming biased.

Pardon me for being rude.

Dwarak
Quote:
Originally Posted by hollywoodhogan View Post
well i guess mr.spitfire, you have got your 40 seconds of fame on this forum and thread by just ensuring that you take a strong exception to enfield. good job.

some people like the bullet and some dont. thats it, period. i dont see need for anyone to shove their ideas and values and principles down anyone's throat. nor there is need to justify or joke about the 1 lakh that some people spend purchasing bullets. its a personal choice, so let us all please allow people who love the bullets to love them and enjoy them.

counter views are welcome because thats one of the purposes of this forum. but let it not be at the cost of ridiculing someone's choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hollywoodhogan View Post
just to be clear, see above where you are ridiculing people who choose a bullet. express your views but do not call others fools, please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuffRyder View Post
Wow!! Wherever there is a topic created on bullets there is a controversy. I guess that is why I love these bikes. Been riding these bikes for quite a while now and have owned and own a few. To my conclusion is that each one of these bikes, albeit from the same factory, has its own personality. It takes some time to understand each of them and then you work out the flaws. At present I own two bullets, 1980 and 1997. The older one has seldom been to the mech whereas the newer one spent most of her time there. I guess I haven't given her much attention.

To each one his own asking. I dont disagree with guys asking for their money's worth but there is only so much money can buy and technology can do. You can never rationalize with a bulletier (don't ask me why, I dont seem to get that point with me too).

I love two marque of motorcycles, the Jawa/Yezdi and RE, and I own 5 and 2 of them respectively. Although many point out the flaws to me on these bikes, I just tell them one thing "Its the imperfection that makes them perfect to me." I really dont want a fill it, shut it, forget it bike; I might really forget it then. One day I will have the money to afford the most technologically advanced motorcycle in the world but I dont know if I would have the same passion toward it.

Back to the main topic. The Bullet Classic 500 looks phenomenal. I must really applaude the guys behind it. They are tapping the crowd who want old wine in a new bottle or should I rather say new wine in an old bottle

-pat-
Ok.

Back to the topic.

Why dosent RE launch this bike here? Anybody know?
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Old 17th October 2008, 15:05   #133
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Ok.

Back to the topic.

Why dosent RE launch this bike here? Anybody know?
If they have to release the bike with the same specs in India, the price is gonna be really high. RE is a company that doesn't sell in such numbers as the other companies, so they need to keep the profit margin on per bike a little higher than the regular bikes in the market. Im guessing if they have to price it for the Indian market, this bike would cost somewhere in the 2 lac margin. In the markets outside India, they would sell this bike in the 5 lac range and that is a huge profit even considering the import tax that each country might have. Every company needs money so that they survive and survive is one thing that RE has done the best with the worst of the hurdles. Im sure the reason is not because they dont want us to own one. I'd rather wait for this bike another 2 years than to see RE shut shop because of dwindling loses.

This is my own conclusion.

Cheers
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Old 17th October 2008, 15:55   #134
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Originally Posted by TuffRyder View Post
If they have to release the bike with the same specs in India, the price is gonna be really high. RE is a company that doesn't sell in such numbers as the other companies, so they need to keep the profit margin on per bike a little higher than the regular bikes in the market. Im guessing if they have to price it for the Indian market, this bike would cost somewhere in the 2 lac margin. In the markets outside India, they would sell this bike in the 5 lac range and that is a huge profit even considering the import tax that each country might have. Every company needs money so that they survive and survive is one thing that RE has done the best with the worst of the hurdles. Im sure the reason is not because they dont want us to own one. I'd rather wait for this bike another 2 years than to see RE shut shop because of dwindling loses.

This is my own conclusion.

Cheers
OK. So this is an assumption. Fine. I Dont agree. (Reason explained further in the post)

Some more news about the Classic. Hopefully all those so keen on calling me Bullet hater will have something to think about.

Link -> Royal Enfields: Summary: Here's what we know so far about the new Royal Enfield Bullet Classic

Some points from the link above that we(sorry not me the Bullet diehards) need to know:

1. The New Bullet Classic is done by a new and more expensive vendor.

One of the comments by Dwarak to me about old employees, RE proves my point.

2. The engines are being machined by a new company that makes Japanese engines so that they are better than current ones.

What i have been continuously asking for? and a lot of you guys very nicely said that it is heritage, it is the Bullet thing. LOL I cant stop laughing at some of the comments you guys made against me. And the irony is RE proves me right and for all you Indian Bullet buyers my quote - A fool and his money cannot be more apt now.

WOW Karma does work and how.

3. The entire frame is new and was designed by the people in Italy that make Ducati frames.

Ha ha ha ha ha this is the egg on the face of Indian Bulleters if nothing else. What happened to the Bullet thing?

Whatever tuffrider said about selling the bike in India are now suspect.

They are selling it to us (not me) because you have attained the Bullet thing and dont care spending money on the sub standard product they are selling you guys. Come on atleast now break your bubble and ask questions to your beloved company about your Bullet Bike (sorry for calling it a bike but thats what it looks like to me).

They improved their quality for the export markets because unlike the Indians they called a spade a spade and got better quality.

For Indians they fed the Bullet Thing untill all of them closed their eyes, ears and mouths and lapped up all the crap they are throwing at them. And now they are not selling the Bullet Classic (much improved quality wise) here too.

I remember one comment - If someone can buy Harley he will buy this too. So much for the Bullet Thing.

PS: To all those who were trying to prove me a point and never could please read my posts before you guys start replying.

Also this post is in totality about the Bullet Classic.

Last edited by Spitfire : 17th October 2008 at 16:09.
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Old 17th October 2008, 16:44   #135
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Ah Mr. Spitfire.

Thanks for echoing my views.
Though, I did miss the laste few pages of the argument, but I can see that the point is still made.
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