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Old 25th March 2009, 01:35   #46
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Anybody has any idea what the ply rating on tyres signifies? For eg., I just noticed that the new Dunlop Challenger 101 I'v bought is 6 ply. The stock tyres were 4 ply. The Shogun manual also mentions 4 ply.

What difference can be expected by using these 6 ply tyres instead of 4?
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Old 25th March 2009, 02:02   #47
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Originally Posted by Raccoon View Post
Anybody has any idea what the ply rating on tyres signifies? For eg., I just noticed that the new Dunlop Challenger 101 I'v bought is 6 ply. The stock tyres were 4 ply. The Shogun manual also mentions 4 ply.

What difference can be expected by using these 6 ply tyres instead of 4?

nothing but the obvious ones, better protection and harder rubber meaning cornering going down a little.!
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Old 25th March 2009, 17:48   #48
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Oh no! I thought so!! :( Anyways, so do you still get 4 ply rated bike tyres? I checked some other bikes... all were 6 ply... hence I was wondering!
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Old 25th March 2009, 19:24   #49
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MRF Nylogrip (4 ply) - I used it for 10 years, never had a problem. My front stock TVS tyre lasted for 63000 Kms. But once I changed to MRF Nylogrip (4 ply) it was altogether different.
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Old 25th March 2009, 21:58   #50
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Hey raccoon, you think a lot buddy, just enjoy the bike. From what I get you do not ride the bike like you in a race [most shogun owners did that] so you won't feel the difference, clear your mind and just ride the bike buddy. the hard and soft compound and 4/6 ply tyres make difference only if you ride the bike really fast and need to take turns at speeds in excess of 60Kmph[mid turn speed and not straight line speed],which means high lean angles.
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Old 25th March 2009, 23:35   #51
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Raccoon, I agree with dinar. Dont get into overanalysing things! Just ride your bike and have some fun!!

We TBHPians are prone to do that a lot(overanalysing i.e). Just enjoy! Hakuna Matata.
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Old 26th March 2009, 00:46   #52
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Can't help it... "overanalysing" is in my blood. Thats why I like Team BHP... I find few others here like me. Besides overanalysing is relative... for me, its natural. For me "overanalysing" is as much if not more fun than riding...

Dinar, hard/soft, etc., make a big difference to me. I do infrequent high speed runs on highways, so grip is quite important... esp. on a bike like Shogun!

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MRF Nylogrip (4 ply) - I used it for 10 years, never had a problem. My front stock TVS tyre lasted for 63000 Kms. But once I changed to MRF Nylogrip (4 ply) it was altogether different.
Dude, the question is not about tyres made 10 years ago! My gun's tyres are/were about a decade old! The question is, are 4 ply tyres still in available now? The question comes to be because the tyres I checkd out on few assorted bikes recently were all 6 ply. Also, if TVS has specified 4 ply in the manual, there must be a reason.

I went thru this thread again y'day, and found that few guys have recommended the MRFs for grip. Now that I'v tried 2 Dunlops 'models' on my gun, I find the Dunlops have much better grip compared to the MRFs (Zapper Y) on my CBZ-X! I feel much more confident on my gun now. I know I'm comparing tyres on 2 different bikes, but still I can say for sure the Dunlops are noticably better in this regard. Dunno about the durability factor though. I'm glad I didn't go for an MRF. Maybe the Zapper Q is better, like some have said, but I could not get that in the shops I went to. So does MRF use a different compound in the Zapper Q?

The compound on the Dunlop also feels "sticker" to touch compared to the stock MRFs on my CBZ-x.

Another thing I noticed in the limited time I'v ridden no the two Dunlop models is that knobby patterns like that on the Challenger 101 (pic in one of my posts above) are good for loose gravel/bad roads... but not so cool for normal roads and higways. I also wonder if they have higher rolling resistance. Any comments please?

Last edited by Raccoon : 26th March 2009 at 00:50.
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Old 26th March 2009, 03:50   #53
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Sort of late now on this thread, as you already bought it, nevertheless, my 2 annas -

looking at the picture of the tyres you posted, it does not look like they offer maximum dry grip. Seems more like an all-terrain tyre. Ride may suffer too. But since you feel they are softer and and grippier, I hope it works for you.

For grip, you should have bought Zapper-Q as Prajeep suggested. the 90/90 size is close to the 3.00" tyre. Well, next time. Try to get MRF Zapper FV for the front.

4 ply/6 ply etc represent the load rating for a cross-ply tyre(non-radial). It refers to the number of plies used in construction, so a 6 ply tyre can carry more load. Has nothing(less) to do with grip, grip is more dependent on the rubber used and the tread pattern.

Don't bother about rolling resistance etc, hardly makes any difference to you in real world, unless you are going for a mileage challenge or something. You are right about the knobby patterns being good for gravel/bad roads.

Remember that the best tyre for dry conditions is a slick(no grooves) but they dont work at all in the wet. Since we ride in all sorts of conditions, our tyres have to be a compromise. You chose which side you compromise on.

Another piece of advise - You may feel supreme confidence in your/bike's/tyre's abilities but be very very careful when riding in the wet. Even otherwise, caution is not a bad thing. I am saying this because, new tyres can instill a sort of overconfidence, making a rider going for abnormal lean angles etc.
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Old 26th March 2009, 14:47   #54
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Racoon the tyres which you have bought are terrain tyres, for daily use on tarmac these tyres are bouncy and gives you harsh riding, and don't forget these tyres are well known for doing zig zag in wet conditions. so better take care man.
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Old 26th March 2009, 15:13   #55
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Originally Posted by praJEEP View Post
Racoon the tyres which you have bought are terrain tyres, for daily use on tarmac these tyres are bouncy and gives you harsh riding, and don't forget these tyres are well known for doing zig zag in wet conditions. so better take care man.
Damn... wish someone had this to me before I bought them! I was happy that the other dealer was exchanging these for my thinner tyres, and also the Challanger 101s look much cooler... so didnt think about this. But ya, these tyres do seem to perform better when there is loose gravel/construction material, etc on the road. But most of my driving is on normal city roads and highways. And they sure seem bit more bouncier than the normal Challenger... so bad choice for me. :(

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Originally Posted by kuttapan View Post
Sort of late now on this thread, as you already bought it, nevertheless, my 2 annas -

looking at the picture of the tyres you posted, it does not look like they offer maximum dry grip. Seems more like an all-terrain tyre. Ride may suffer too. But since you feel they are softer and and grippier, I hope it works for you.
As I said above, the ride has suffered. Anyway, still have to buy the front tyre, so will consider everything now. I'm conidering the normal ribbed pattern (any comments?). Am a bit wary of MRF and its harder rubber now... but will take a look before deciding. And now after reading all this, I feel like going back to the dealer and ask him if he will change it again. But then he will buy it back at a lot less than what I paid for, I guess... :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuttapan View Post
4 ply/6 ply etc represent the load rating for a cross-ply tyre(non-radial). It refers to the number of plies used in construction, so a 6 ply tyre can carry more load. Has nothing(less) to do with grip, grip is more dependent on the rubber used and the tread pattern.
Good... so maybe I can ignore the ply rating then.

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Originally Posted by kuttapan View Post
Don't bother about rolling resistance etc, hardly makes any difference to you in real world, unless you are going for a mileage challenge or something. You are right about the knobby patterns being good for gravel/bad roads.
So I can expect no difference in my fuel efficiency?

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Originally Posted by kuttapan View Post
Another piece of advise - You may feel supreme confidence in your/bike's/tyre's abilities but be very very careful when riding in the wet. Even otherwise, caution is not a bad thing. I am saying this because, new tyres can instill a sort of overconfidence, making a rider going for abnormal lean angles etc.
Thanks for the concern. I am anyways a fairly cautious driver... but will keep this in mind.
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Old 29th March 2009, 20:27   #56
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Paid a visit to the tyre dealer couple days ago to ask him if he will change the tyre (2nd time ) At first he was reluctant... but upon some "goading" he agreed to do it... for Rs. 200. So he took back the Challenger 101 (pic posted earlier) and gave me the plain looking Challenger instead (same size, ie. 3 x 18) - the only other Dunlop model he had in stock. The bike (read tyre) looks plain jane now... but at least the bike as a tyre more suited to tarmac. The tyre has a centre groove... do rear tyres also have this?? Hope I'v not been passed off a tyre ment for the front. Don't tyre companies mention on the sidewall that its a front/rear tyre??

Pics of the Challenger are attached. The tyre feels like it has a lower rolling resistance than the Challenger 101... but its difficult to make an accurate assesment of such small changes. Best way would have been to see the difference in fuel efficiency... but that wasnt possible, given that I didn't have the tyre with me for long enough.

Both the tyres seem to have the same compound (as far as I can tell, thru touch). Both of them get bit warm even on short rides, even when driven at night (low ambient temperature and cool roads). I'm sure this contributes to their grip, along with the softer compound.

That said, the Challenger sure wasn't a bad tyre IMHO... somebody considering a dual purpose tyre can certainly consider it.


Furthermore, I seem to have a problem with the front wheel/tyre. The old tyre seems to have worn more towards the right shoulder (see pic). What could be the problem? AFAIK, there is no adjustment that can be done to the front wheel. Also, the shop that does wheel truing for spoked bikes said that the rim is true!


Lastly, the spokes have almost totally lost their sheen and some have slight signs of rust. The sligh rust came off when i wiped them with WD40... but they look all dull now. There was significant rust on some parts of the rear rim itself... but 99% of it is gone after 3 - 4 applications of WD40 over several days, and the rim now looks good. Can anything be done for the spokes? Also, can anything be done about rusting on the inner side of the rim? Noticed this while changing tyres. Thought of applying oil or grease, but quickly backed off as I thought this might cause the tyre/tube to loose its grip on the rim and may even adversely affect the rubber.
Attached Images
    

Last edited by Raccoon : 29th March 2009 at 20:36.
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Old 30th March 2009, 15:26   #57
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@Raccon: Get off that tree man

Coming to the tyre. Both tread patterns are a mismatch for your bike, the previous one and the one posted above. These tyres are good for bad roads.

When we have better tyres available in the market why go for these. The Shogun deserves better tyres then the one's you have been experimenting with.
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Old 30th March 2009, 15:50   #58
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@Raccon: Get off that tree man

Coming to the tyre. Both tread patterns are a mismatch for your bike, the previous one and the one posted above. These tyres are good for bad roads.

When we have better tyres available in the market why go for these. The Shogun deserves better tyres then the one's you have been experimenting with.
Absolutely agree! You've just been overthinking matters.

Go for an M45(if you can find it) in 3.00x18 for the rear. Or get a Zapper.
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Old 30th March 2009, 16:04   #59
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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
@Raccon: Get off that tree man

Coming to the tyre. Both tread patterns are a mismatch for your bike, the previous one and the one posted above. These tyres are good for bad roads.

When we have better tyres available in the market why go for these. The Shogun deserves better tyres then the one's you have been experimenting with.
I know what you are saying is right, but not quite. The current tyre (Challenger) is not that good on bad roads... and is better on tarmac. The other tyre (Challenger 101) seemed to do much better on bad roads/gravel etc. But this is speaking relatively. Anyways, the small tyre dealer I went to does not stock Michellins or MRF. He only has TVS, Dunlop and Ceat. Couple of the bigger shops I went to are not ready to exchange tyres. As I'v already mentioned, the rubber on the TVS definetely seems harder, so that was out. The Zappers on my other bike also have harder rubber, so I wasn't keen on an MRF... most certainly not a Zapper Y at least. I wanted to check out the Zapper Q, since so many of you have recommended it, but none of the shops had one. :( So what option do I have?
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Old 30th March 2009, 16:11   #60
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I know what you are saying is right, but not quite. The current tyre (Challenger) is not that good on bad roads... and is better on tarmac.
That pattern is older then you probably. That tyre (tread pattern) came on the Yamaha RD 350 as OE. No not because of the performance, but only because it lasts and was meant for bad roads and with a pinch we can expect it to be better - handling wise. But thats ages ago and better tyre tech is available. Try riding in the wet with those tyres...

Quote:
Anyways, the small tyre dealer I went to does not stock Michellins or MRF. He only has TVS, Dunlop and Ceat. Couple of the bigger shops I went to are not ready to exchange tyres.
Exchange? which tyre shop exchanges used tyre's anywhere?

Quote:
As I'v already mentioned, the rubber on the TVS definetely seems harder, so that was out. The Zappers on my other bike also have harder rubber, so I wasn't keen on an MRF... most certainly not a Zapper Y at least. I wanted to check out the Zapper Q, since so many of you have recommended it, but none of the shops had one. :( So what option do I have?
Surprisng that in a place like Pune this tyre isnt available. Try looking a bit more harder. And the places you have mentioned and their knowledge about tyres, you are in the wrong place. These places cater to the average(if thats the right term) rider who needs a tyre. Period. What, why is non of their concern. Cheap and should be a tyre.

Try Michelin's.

Last edited by Spitfire : 30th March 2009 at 16:14.
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